Where Tom Brady rank all time now?

Discussion in 'The National Football League' started by gtexan02, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. Texecutioner

    Texecutioner Hall of Fame

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    No I didn't. I've watched some of his classic games though.

    Feel free to answer that question I posed to Bah, since I know that you're a long time fan of Staubach. I'm not knocking the guy for the record. I'd like to hear the arguments that you guys would present for him though. Lets leave the Brady spat alone since we're not going to get anywhere obviously. For the record it is nice to see some of you guys giving him his proper due though, I'll leave it at that.
     
  2. Texecutioner

    Texecutioner Hall of Fame

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    He probably does, but I think its hard to rank him in these discussions because of his lack of a body of work compared to a lot of others since he sat behind Montana. When he got his chance though, he killed it for sure. Interesting to contemplate where he would have stood in this had to been a long time starter for another team. As a Montana fan, I hated how they got rid of Montana when they did, but I realize it was the right decision.
     
  3. PapaL

    PapaL Loose Screw

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    Who said I was jealous. I stated MY OPINION. Tough luck that YOU don't agree.
    The Patriots are the model franchise of the new millennium. No one denies that. Doesn't mean I'm slobbing on Brady's knob like you are. Again IN MY OPINION he's equal to Montana. You have options if you don't agree. Yes I'm sure my opinion is motivating the Patriots right now. Robert Craft is scanning our little message board for bulletin board material. Ohhhh we're going to show Papa L that Brady is best all time. We'll show him!

    Get over yourself Tex. You're showing your ass yet again.
     
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  4. bah007

    bah007 Hall of Fame

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    Short answer, I struggle with Starr, Elway, and Manning depending on when I'm having the conversation. I could easily have those three in a different order on different days.

    Starr and Unitas always get hurt because of the time frame where they played their prime. They didn't win a ton of Super Bowls but each won numerous titles before the Super Bowl era. Unitas, in particular, was extraordinarily better than his peers.

    I'd have Young at #8. Favre is probably #9. I'm not too high on Bradshaw, though he is always a part of this conversation due to his SB numbers.
     
  5. banned1976

    banned1976 American

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    To me, it's hard for me to compare the 80's NFL to today. The rules have changed so much as far as protecting the QB. So I'd say Brady and Montana share the title of the two best QB's ever.

    BTW, it's interesting that Super Bowl 51 Pats margin of victory of 6 points is their highest margin of victory of all 5 of their Super Bowl wins.
     
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  6. Texecutioner

    Texecutioner Hall of Fame

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    You have bashed them for a long time, and yet they've continued to be in the AFC Championship every season. Sorry, but your opinions towards them have been filled with a lot of hate so I think the jealousy thing is accurate. Tons of fans have it towards the Pats, and a lot of people freely admit it. I've had that towards the Broncos when Elway played, but I give that guy some of the most props ever. I had that against Kobe Bryant and Shaq and those Lakers teams that dominated everyone so badly for a while, but by the end of Kobe's career I began to appreciate what I witnessed with him. Tons of fans over the years felt that way about the Yankees as well. It is very common for teams that were dynasty teams. Hell, there are a few old timer fans in here in TT that "hate" the Steelers organization tremendously due to their dominance in the 70's and how the Oilers could never get past them.

    But as far as Montana and Brady goes, it isn't even close. And again, I'm a Montana fan but Brady blew past him by a mile taking a much more difficult road. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, but based on the facts of accomplishments and the eras it just isn't close. The only people that would still call this a tie are people that hate Brady. I'm okay with that, but that doesn't mean it won't be acknowledged for what it is. Feel free to post a stat based argument for Montana and what he did in the post season which is even more important. Maybe you haven't looked that closely on this.
     
  7. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    Brady is phenomenal. Do I need to do more, genuflect, maybe get a Giselle icon to 'meditate' to? The latter doesn't sound so bad.

    Staubach was the most complete QB I've ever seen. He'd hang and take the hit. He'd run for the 1st down. He'd deliver a spot on Hail Mary (named after him). He pinholed passes. He fought Tom Landry - only he and Bob Lilly could talk to Landry. He played a game with the pinkie on his throwing hand at 90 degrees. It was ugly ro look at. And having been fortunate enough to meet him (neighbor to my HS best friend and then neighbor professionally) quite a few times, damn nice guy. Yankee beyond his control but Texan at heart.
     
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  8. Texecutioner

    Texecutioner Hall of Fame

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    Those teams played against defenses that also had schemes that weren't nearly as complex as today. The athletes now are faster and stronger. I'd also argue that the QB's now get hurt just as much if not more, and there seems to be even more QB's struggling to be consistent than ever before. There is such a huge gap between the elites like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Brees over the last 12 years or so. Those teams in that era also got to stay with their teams for most of that career so if you had a dominant team around you, it typically stayed that way. If you look at the 4 QB's I just mentioned Manning is the only guy that had his main play makers with him for most of his career, but even then he went to Denver and killed it with another stacked roster, but still played amazing. The QB's of today are required to do a lot more than what those QB's had to do back then when you look at guys like Brady and Manning who do so much analyzing at the line of scrimmage. I think that Marino or Young would have likely been the most successful guys from that era in this era if they played now.
     
  9. Texecutioner

    Texecutioner Hall of Fame

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    I'd say that Aaron Rodgers, Young, or Favre were better versions of him. I've seen him do some pretty amazing things for the record. I watched some of those battles with the Steelers especially. I'd like to hear more of a stat based argument amongst his peers to go along with what you put in this post though. Not that I don't like what you mentioned. I do, and I'd like to hear you ellaborate on those stories if you care to take the time (especially the one with him fighting Landry). My good friend mentions Bob Lilly all the time as Lilly is a big photographer now days and they worked with each other a lot and has a lot of great stories about Lilly as a person.
     
  10. Texecutioner

    Texecutioner Hall of Fame

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    I hear ya, the top 5 is tough. I change mine quite a bit myself.

    Today, I'd probably go

    1. Brady
    2. Montana
    3. Elway
    4. Manning
    5. Favre

    Manning and Favre are terribly hard to swap in and out of this thing. Favre will likely get replaced by Rodgers. Manning has a lot of accomplishments, but he had the best weapons over a career than any QB in history to me and it isn't even close as far as I'm concerned so I have to measure that. Favre played with so many receivers throughout his career and was close to winning 2 SB's, and played on 3 teams where he played really well. That season he had in Minnesota pushes him pretty high for me since their offense was trash before he got there and some of the throws he made that year at such an old age. That was throw he made that was like a hail marry to win the game, but was actually like a bullet in the back of the end zone to Bernard Berrian is the single best throw I've ever seen. Not sure if you remember that one.
     


  11. Texecutioner

    Texecutioner Hall of Fame

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    Double post
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
  12. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    I don't have links for this. Rumor was the team went to Lilly and said you have to go to Tom and get Roger starting.

    Once Roger started, he pulled a pass into a QB keeper and got a TD to win the game. Legend has it Landry said 'don't ever do that again, you're the starter." You could watch them on the sideline. Only Staubach argued. Everyone else slunk away.

    All of which gets to Landry was the greatest coach ever.
     
  13. PapaL

    PapaL Loose Screw

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    Breaking News: Charles Haley is the defender ever. His 5 SB rings prove it.
     
  14. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    Haley should be in the HoF.
     
  15. Showtime100

    Showtime100 Got JJ?

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    Wow. I guess I just assumed he was. Mercy, Bettis is in and Haley isn't.

    *******************************************************

    Just checked, he was inducted in 2015. Whew, ok, panties unwadded. Carry on. :D
     
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  16. ObsiWan

    ObsiWan Site Contributor

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    Montana is undefeated in his SB appearances. So is Bradshaw.
    Brady is not.
    How can he possibly be the greatest when there are two guys at 4-0 in Super Bowls?
    A championship winning pct. of 1.000 is > than a winning pct. of 0.714.
    There's a "stat" for you: championship game winning pct. There are two guys better.

    :D
     
  17. PapaL

    PapaL Loose Screw

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  18. ObsiWan

    ObsiWan Site Contributor

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    IMHO, the game has changed so much over the years that I think you have to break this "greatest" discussion into eras.

    Brady is the best of the current era. More rings than any other guy today.
    Montana was the best in his era. Four rings in four appearances. He ruled the 80s.
    Staubach was the best in his era. He brought mobility to the game.
    Starr was the best in his era. Went to six NFL championship games and won five.

    To answer the all time question, first you have to tell me how effective those guys would be playing in a different era. That, to me, is the ultimate test if you're talking All-Time Greatest. To me All-Time means the guy would be successful no matter what era you dropped him into. Jim Brown would be a successful RB in today's game or Montana's era or Staubach's era. Rice would be successful in today's game.

    Could Brady have won back in Starr's or Unitas' day when QB actually had to call their own plays and no offensive coordinator/head coach whispering in his ear?
    Maybe. We'll never know.

    But Brady definitely is the best of the bunch today.
    :twocents:
     
  19. Showtime100

    Showtime100 Got JJ?

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  20. TexansSeminole

    TexansSeminole Hall of Fame

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    This is pretty much how I see all the all-time discussions (basketball especially), but it's more fun to make definitive statements.
     

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