What did Davis do to the offense - Part II

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Fiddy, Oct 11, 2004.

  1. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

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    At the end of last season I compiled stats to figure out what exactly Davis did to the offense (here it is: http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=909)

    So after 5 games this season, I have complied stats once again. My stats are based on 2 games and a 1/2 of the Vikings game so the time is split in half. Davis played a big role in the first half against the Vikes and a small role in the second so I looked at the play-by-play and got the stats for each half. I will now compare what happens to Carr and Johnson when Davis plays a big role and when Davis plays a small role.

    When Davis plays a big role in the offense- 2-1/2 games (Chargers, Lions, first half against Vikes)

    David Carr's Stats:
    Completions - 50
    Attempts - 72
    Yards - 626
    Touchdowns - 2
    INTs - 3
    Avg per completion - 12.5

    Andre Johnson Stats:
    Receptions - 13
    Yards - 199
    TDs - 1
    Avg - 15.3

    Total Points scored by offense - 36
    Total Turnovers by the offense - 7
    Record 0-3 (We lost the first half of the Vikes game)

    When Davis plays a small or no role in the offense 2-1/2 games (KC, Oakland. other 1/2 of Vikes game)

    David Carr's Stats:
    Completions - 46
    Attempts - 78
    Yards - 749
    Touchdowns - 5
    INTs - 1
    Avg per completion - 16

    Andre Johnson Stats:
    Receptions - 16
    Yards - 326
    TDs - 3
    Avg - 20.4

    Total Points scored by offense - 68 (I took out the 2 defensive TDs)
    Total Turnovers by the offense - 2
    Record 3-0 (We won the second half of the Vikes game)

    The important stats are the total points scored, the turnovers, and the wins by the teams. The stats are excat opposites. You may take these stats as you want to take them, but I will stay opposed to Davis playing a big role in the offense.
     
  2. El Tejano

    El Tejano Hall of Fame

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    I will too unfortunately but hey the proof is in the game and you can just see it. Davis needs to be an arsenal in the offense, not the main gun.
     
  3. RTP2110

    RTP2110 Thank You Andre

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    I agree. You don't have to do much digging to see the ''Domanick Davis Difference" in this offense. I just don't understand why dd is so prioritized in the offense when our passing game unbelievably effective.
     
  4. infantrycak

    infantrycak Semi-grand Poobah Staff Member

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    Domanick's presence in the game has not caused David Carr to complete just 40.7% (11 of 27) of his pass attempts in the 1st quarter. The Texans have taken some shots in the 1st but David has not executed. David has to step up his game in the 1st to match his other three quarters.
     
  5. ledzeppelin229

    ledzeppelin229 Hall of Fame

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    I don't think you can really blame Davis for all this. It all starts with Carr and the coaches, and if we were using Davis properly (as in using the pass to setup the run) he could have some big games when teams backoff to cover our WRs. I just wonder if Hollings or Wells was playing as much as him, would we see the exact same thing? He also doesn't seem to have even the tiniest hole to squeak through. What happened to those giant holes last season that allowed him to run in space? That's where he's most valuable.

    I don't think it's Fiddy's intention but it sometimes seems to come across to me like he just cant wait for Davis to screw something up so he can get his boy Hollings in the game.

    All in all, I do agree it's obvious the offense is being misused early in the game, and the overall focus should be on our big play WRs and not Davis (who isn't getting the blocking he needs to be running well anyway). Especially when the defenses glaring weakness IS its pass defense.
     
  6. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    I tend to think that Dom's long term outlook in the NFL is as a 3rd down back and I don't think he is any more talented than guys like Kevin Faulk or Moe Williams (they are third down backs on their teams). Yesterday we faced a guy in M Moore that is prety much the same type back as Dom. Sure he got some yards on us but he is slow and not much of a threat. No way Moore keeps his job when the other Viking backs get healthy.

    Dom has 70 runs this year with a long of 10 yards. He is not a threat to score except inside the 10 yard line for the most part and teams tend to give us dump off passes when we are between the 20's when he is in the game. If Hollings can't step up and take the position we will draft a back on the first day of the draft next year. Book it.
     
  7. RTP2110

    RTP2110 Thank You Andre

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    I agree with Vinny 100%. While I've always been impressed with DD, I've never really had confidence in him as an every down back.
     
  8. RTP2110

    RTP2110 Thank You Andre

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    Wasn't it because of DD that we didn't take a RB on the 1st day this year? Wasn't the plan to draft a QB, then WR, and RB was supposed to be the final peice of the puzzle?
     
  9. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

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    It is not my intention to do that. I just want what is best for the team. If Wells is the better back, then put him in. It is no secret that I would like Hollings to get a chance but I do agree with Vinny that we could draft a back on the first day if no one proves they are an everydown back...
     
  10. SBTexans08

    SBTexans08 All Pro

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    I agree as well. I just don't think this year's draft had what we were looking for though. Hopefully next year's draft has something in store for the Texans in that department.
     
  11. Sarg01

    Sarg01 Hall of Fame

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    I think you're looking at symptoms of the problem, not the problem itself.

    It's not that Davis is a worse back than Wells or Hollings. It's that everyone in the NFL knows that the Texans are going to run the ball more than most other teams. Thus they either give up yards to Davis OR ease up a little on the deep range in order to protect the short ranges and stop the run. This is a good reason why Carr's ypa is high despite a relative lack of deep shots taken on offense. We actually have the keys for a balanced offense ... BUT we don't run a lot of play action and/or counters, so we don't fool defenses the way other balanced offenses do. It's probably based in a residual lack of faith about the O-line. Play action, counters and screens all are bad moves if the other team gets penetration.
     
  12. ledzeppelin229

    ledzeppelin229 Hall of Fame

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    What's everyones opinion on Ronnie Brown? He's a big back (6'1", 224) seems to have good speed/agility especially for his size, and doesn't go down without getting hit with a sledgehammer. Ive seen a few Auburn games and that guy is always running hard and making plays out of nothing.

    Where would he be expected to fall in the draft at this point?
     
  13. travfrancis

    travfrancis Veteran

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    ^ 1st round
     
  14. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    i'm not exactly sure how you can add the vikings game into dd's totals. 4 carries in the and 3(?) receptions in the first half was a huge mistake IMO. dd wasnt even in that game and should've been. the problem is that usually we gameplan around davis and make him the focal point of the offence. what's happened is defences are doing that also and nobody can be very effective like that ... which is why we've been so successful in the air. dd needs to become our #1 running back, not our entire offense (or not even on the field when they attack him directly). when that happens he'll return to ~25 carries & 100+ yards per game along with a balanced passing attack. it cant be all or none, dd has to be a PART of the offense.
     
  15. V Man

    V Man Pumpkinhead

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    My problem is I don't think they use DD right. Like Vinny said he is a third down back (Only). If used right, he is quite useful. Example the draw play in OT, he went for about 15 (but was called back for a suspect holding call).

    It seems at times he is too enovled in the offense, all they do is dump the ball to him. Is that him, Carr, or the coaches I don't know, but it really seems to slow down the offense, (just like Fiddy's stats show).

    And I also agree with several other of you that we could be looking at a feature back with the first round pick next year. :twocents:
     
  16. TexansTrueFan

    TexansTrueFan Hall of Fame

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    Well even though D.D hasnt shown what we expected so far this season i still "think" he can be our every down back. I just dont think the zone blocking scheme is working for our RB's. i dont see near as many holes opening up on the O-Line as last year. Its fine to use D.D as a RUNNING BACK but when he become the leading reciever on our team than we got problems. I dont see us drafting a RB in the first round i see us focusing primarily on Top Defensive picks. We maybe D.D only starts getting good on weeks 6 like last years idonno: Guess we'll see.
     
  17. TexanExile

    TexanExile A New Hope

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    Our first round pick next year should probably go to one of our rather porous lines. Offense OR defense...both need some depth and planning for gathering salary cap clouds. A legitimate left tackle would be nice...but back to Davis.

    Dom's got a ton of talent, but he's not showing durability. The same could be said of his backup, if his backup had any real experience at all. As soon as it was clear that Dom couldn't twist and turn against the Vikes, he should've been pulled for Wells, who gave us a decent ground game the week before. Let Dom heal 100% if need be.

    We can't forget the amazing stuff he did last year, but for WHATEVER REASON (Carr's preferences or the signals from the sidelines), when DD's on the field our quarterback doesn't throw to anybody who isn't wearing a 37 on his back. That's ridiculous. At this point, I'd say keep using him, but give Wells and Hollings their opportunities to spell him and maybe even surpass him. If he's not the best RB on the team, fine, but even if he IS the best RB on the team, he can't be the whole freaking offense. :twocents:
     
  18. STEEL BLUE TEXANS

    STEEL BLUE TEXANS Hall of Fame

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    I'd rather use a Mid-round pick on Kay Jay Harris. Ronnie Brown will likely be a 1st - early 2nd round pick.
     
  19. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

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    I dont know that he has ton of talent, His skill level is at that of a 3rd down back, and I do not know what amazing stuff he did last year. Davis' yards per carry was 18th best in the league last year and he struggled against teams with good run defenses. He also did not stretch defenses with long runs or cause them to lose sleep.
     
  20. Mistril48

    Mistril48 All Pro

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    Does anyone know why Tony Hollings didn't get in the game at all versus the Vikings?
     

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