Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
It also leaves him in a situation with "less incentive" to have to play at an elite level.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Let's talk about OT Laremy Tunsil.
- Thread starter Mangler
- Start date
It also leaves him in a situation with "less incentive" to have to play at an elite level.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol, all of that still exists regardless of where he was at. Such is life for a young elite athlete playing a coveted position in the NFL.
You could actually argue we'd be more over the barrel if we didn't aggressively trade for him like we did. Had we tried to lure him here in FA, not only would he likely still get more money, not having him in house protecting DW4 this year, we could've seen another year of DW4 taking a beating & that perhaps gets him questioning whether he wants to be here long term......or worse, we ruin him ala Carr.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
OK, Chief - I'm glad a few of you get it.
Show me other top young LT's traded
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I don't have to.
Just because no one can find anything remotely close to what OB gave up, doesn't mean you get to reverse the question and transfer the burden of proof. That isn't what smart GM's or owners do. They don't flurry into a panic and just start playing suicide with draft picks. You fail to realize that losing the draft capital also likely keeps OB in charge of his mess. Its harder to find HC replacements and GM's when they've got to go into bad situations where draft assets are already diffused.
The Redskins didn't want to let Trent Williams walk.
I'm sure the Texans want to pay Tunsil.
I'm sure the Texans will pay Tunsil.
A lot.
But if they for some reason got a wild hair, they can tag him, regardless how the tag worked in the past. They can tag him & let him sit out.
I don't think they will. But they can.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I don't really care. If Bill O'Brien and Gaine were to stupid in the last two off seasons to figure out how to fix the Offensive line, then the last thing I would do is let him trade away more assets in a panic. That's what you don't do. Part of what made it so hard for them to fix the offensive line in the first place was because they went to two drafts without a 1st round pick to begin with using the Watson trade. They finally get one, and they blow it and end up blowing off two more draft picks. The fact that people think this isn't going to still be a glaring problem likely and that other holes aren't going to be very problematic are fooling themselves, and by supporting this trade is really a big endorsement for their trust in Bill O'Brien. If you trusted him to salvage away the future drafts, don't complain to me when his coaching screw ups aren't yielding the results you wanted. After all, you trusted him to waive the future and to over pay in order to do it. You can't call O'Brien a terrible HC and an idiot, but then at the same time trust him to make one of the most lop sided trades ever at that position. Way to many contradictions.
No CB has been traded for two 1st rd picks like Ramsey was. No LB was traded for two 1st rd picks like Mack was.
Only QB's used to get traded for 1st rd picks. It's a new era in the NFL. Times are changing.
I wanted to see the OL talent upgraded to find out about DW4. I found out what I needed to know. BTw, Howard is far from a wasted 1st rd pick and BOB's not a terrible HC. He's a middle of the pack guy.
Last edited:
NOLA paid two firsts in the 2018 Draft for the edge rusher Marcus Davenport, so there's two firsts for a position not as important as LT
for a rookie, a college football player before he took a single snap in the NFL.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
So still not a single comparable at LT for what O'Brien gave up for one. And the fact that people ignore the other fact that he just spent a #1 draft pick on one, so 3 straight years of draft picks all end up going towards one position.
And those examples at other positions likely are problematic as well. I wouldn't call them time changing, because its not the norm. Khalil Mack trade may work out in the end, but even that is still yet to be seen. We are in the off season now, and this Offensive line could be dealt with further, and we'd have a ton of young offensive lineman at low prices with more pics.
And those examples at other positions likely are problematic as well. I wouldn't call them time changing, because its not the norm. Khalil Mack trade may work out in the end, but even that is still yet to be seen. We are in the off season now, and this Offensive line could be dealt with further, and we'd have a ton of young offensive lineman at low prices with more pics.
I think you have a couple of things twisted. I do not & have not ever had any trust in O'Brien.
I don't cry to you about sh!t.
My stance regarding this trade has always been, "Let's see how the season turns out before we complain."
Season is over, time to complain.
Are you saying he wouldn't have made the trade if I didn't trust him?
O'Brien is going to do what O'Brien is going to do regardless any trust or lack thereof I have in him.
All I can do is hope for the best. & that's what I've been doing.
Dang Tex you seem to be challenged by the most basic kind of math, I dunno maybe 3rd or 4th grade level stuff !
OK listen up here - OLT + ORT = 2 (two) positions, not 1 (one). This is some pretty remedial stuff here.
Tunsil @ OLT & Tytus @ ORT.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You're talking in circles now, because you couldn't give me a comparable at LT where that has been done. You can sit here and defend O'Brien all you want, but that move did very little for the Texans this season compared to where they already were. Their draft capital is shot now, you're stuck with O'Brien even longer after he did this, because the owner will want him to see this thing through. Don't come back in here whining when the Texans don't have enough pieces to down the road especially for a HC that is always on the verge of a huge blunder. Bad coach/Bad GM.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Define what you mean by the bolded in your statement. What would have to happen for these trades to have "worked out". If you say something like "the team has to win or go to a SB within X time frame" your definition is flawed simply b/c there are way too many things that need to happen & go right for any 1 team in any 1 year to win the SB.
I know that your frame of reference for that is a bit skewed b/c you've watched your Patriots team go to 8 SB's in the last 20 years but you know that ain't the norm. Most teams are lucky if they can get to 1 every 10 years.
FYI I'd like to see O'Brien replaced before the 2020 RS begins, but have practically no expectations that will happen.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Laremy Tunsil Wants to Stay With the Texans and Deshaun Watson
An impressive part of the video........."I don't like to talk about myself................"
An impressive part of the video........."I don't like to talk about myself................"
Tunsil seems like a really cool cat.
Does he really want to play here with DW4 long term ? I absolutely beleif what he says as long as the Texans are willing to give
him a better deal than anybody else in the league is.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
Tunsil, 25, is coming off his fourth season — his best in the NFL. He’s expected to sign an extension that may make him the highest-paid offensive lineman in history.
Despite having a league-high 14 false-start penalties, Tunsil filled the biggest hole on the Texans’ offense. He was penalized once for holding and allowed pressure on 29 of his 694 snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. PFF said he allowed three sacks, and his 88.2 pass blocking grade was third in the league.
www.houstonchronicle.com
Despite having a league-high 14 false-start penalties, Tunsil filled the biggest hole on the Texans’ offense. He was penalized once for holding and allowed pressure on 29 of his 694 snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. PFF said he allowed three sacks, and his 88.2 pass blocking grade was third in the league.
McClain: Texans better off with Laremy Tunsil instead of No. 26 pick
Bill O’Brien was criticized for giving up too much for the left tackle but so far the move paid off.
What PFF seems to hint at is that the Texans would have been in deep doo doo had they not gone for a couple of bank loans.
That didn't prevent 31-51 though.
And no, Tunsil did not play great in that game.
Sure, he still was better than any OT that OB can put out there lately.
Everybody expected Tunsil to be a good addition. Nothing new to that.
But remember, PFF does not deduct point from Pass Pro because of penalties.
Nor they keep track on whether the LT got help, or what the pass rush was like.
The opponents rushed 4 or 3 more this last year than they did in 2018.
They want to prevent the big play by keeping guys back in coverage deep.
The Texans also want to DW4 to get the ball out quicker, thus a lower AYA (7.7 vs. 8.5 and 8.4 in the previous 2 years).
AYA = Air Yard per Attempt.
And also a reduction in the Time to Throw (2.82 vs. 3.01)
That didn't prevent 31-51 though.
And no, Tunsil did not play great in that game.
Sure, he still was better than any OT that OB can put out there lately.
Everybody expected Tunsil to be a good addition. Nothing new to that.
But remember, PFF does not deduct point from Pass Pro because of penalties.
Nor they keep track on whether the LT got help, or what the pass rush was like.
The opponents rushed 4 or 3 more this last year than they did in 2018.
They want to prevent the big play by keeping guys back in coverage deep.
The Texans also want to DW4 to get the ball out quicker, thus a lower AYA (7.7 vs. 8.5 and 8.4 in the previous 2 years).
AYA = Air Yard per Attempt.
And also a reduction in the Time to Throw (2.82 vs. 3.01)
Massive leverage over the Texans (nice job by the GM) so he's projected to be the highest paid OT.
$15m cap hit in 2020 leaving $49m and still need to extend Watson and Cunningham plus sign Reader, two starting corners, a starting RB and a starting TE.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Tunsil was always going to be the top or one of the top OT contracts ever. Tunsil's story was always one of leverage. The Texans were desperate to find Watson a reliable blind side protector and all teams knew that..........thus the magnitude of the trade. Tunsil's agent was never going to agree to an extension of his existing contract at the time of signing.........and not likely before the the new CBA's salary cap would be determined. The Texans knew that they had him under contract through 2020 and could negotiate when the time allowed, also knowing that if the CBA was late in signing, the Texans always had the option of a tag while the opportunity for negotiation was re-opened by Tunsil's agent.
Tunsil, 25, is coming off his fourth season — his best in the NFL. He’s expected to sign an extension that may make him the highest-paid offensive lineman in history.
Despite having a league-high 14 false-start penalties, Tunsil filled the biggest hole on the Texans’ offense. He was penalized once for holding and allowed pressure on 29 of his 694 snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. PFF said he allowed three sacks, and his 88.2 pass blocking grade was third in the league.
McClain: Texans better off with Laremy Tunsil instead of No. 26 pick
Bill O’Brien was criticized for giving up too much for the left tackle but so far the move paid off.
Well worth the investment
SMDH
You mean PFF judged Tunsil differently than every other OT? Tell you what go back and tell us how many times Tunsil received help. I can guarantee you it wasn't often. His numbers would've looked even better if DW4 would get rid of the darn ball.
You're really stretching this trying to prove some kind of twisted point.
Fact is Tunsil was a top 5 LT last yr, regardless of posts like this one.
Last edited:
He was not in the top 5 through week 15
The NFL's top-25 offensive linemen through Week 15
PFF's Ben Linsey sorts out the top-25 performers along the offensive line with two weeks left in the 2019 NFL season.
www.pff.com
And the Texans offense was nothing to write home about in the last two games.
260 yds ave and low scoring.
PFF can be "weird" at times.
He was not in the top 5 through week 15
The NFL's top-25 offensive linemen through Week 15
PFF's Ben Linsey sorts out the top-25 performers along the offensive line with two weeks left in the 2019 NFL season.
And the Texans offense was nothing to write home about in the last two games.
260 yds ave and low scoring.
PFF can be "weird" at times.
I only saw 4 other LT's on that list. Bunch of OG's/RT's.
BTW, I would take Tunsil over any other LT on that list besides Stanley.
There were 12 OTs on PFF 101 list.
www.pff.com
D Brown wasn't even on it, and he allowed just 1 sack and 2 penalties.
The top 101 players from the 2019 NFL season
PFF counts down the 101 best players from the 2019 NFL season.
www.pff.com
D Brown wasn't even on it, and he allowed just 1 sack and 2 penalties.
OK, I missed 1 while quickly browsing over the article. Sue me.
Actually I lost interest when I saw you trying to prove some kind of point and I noticed a whole bunch of IOL/RT's listed. I dont even know what you're trying to prove.
Are you actually saying you would take Peters/Decker/Costanzo over Tunsil?
I'm not even sure I would take Armstead over Tunsil.
DW4 really sucked in those games and here we go again with the it's DW4 sucks vs BOB's playcalling sucks and since we've spent so much time on this subject I'll let you have the last word on this.
But know that I'm very glad to have an ascending 25 yr old LT that only allowed 3 sacks (One of which wasn't his fault) Plus a young and what should be improving OL as the rookies improve.
It's hard for an OL to look good when 1. You're running the RPO and the QB never is a threat to keep the ball. 2. The QB holds onto the ball too long because A. He's confused, B. He sucks at throwing with anticipation.
I just know that you claimed Tunsil was rated no. 5 and you can't prove it.
The Bills’ seven sacks - A quick look as to where Tunsil was on those plays.
www.sbnation.com
Sack 1. Tunsil got beat right off the bat; even with the help from the RB, the edge player still sacked DW4 - Yes, there were other problems besides Tunsil, too.
Sack 2. Tunsil was in a double-team with the LG.
Sack 3. Tusnsil’s man went inside on a stunt.
Sack 4. Tunsil was in a double-team with the LG. The DT 91 Oliver split the double-team and joined in on the sack.
Sack 5. His man went inside on a stunt.
Sack 6. Tunsil got beat again, but DW4 stepped up; only to see more pressure.
Tunsil did not recover. He allowed his man to chase DW4 to the other side of the field for the sack.
Sack 7. Tunsil was in a double-team with the LG.
......
That's not even an average LT to me.
Every Bills sack against the Texans | AFC Wild Card
www.buffalobills.com
Deshaun Watson is getting sacked too many times again
The Texans allowed a season-high seven sacks in the Wild Card Round. The Chiefs will be looking to replicate that.
www.sbnation.com
Sack 1. Tunsil got beat right off the bat; even with the help from the RB, the edge player still sacked DW4 - Yes, there were other problems besides Tunsil, too.
Sack 2. Tunsil was in a double-team with the LG.
Sack 3. Tusnsil’s man went inside on a stunt.
Sack 4. Tunsil was in a double-team with the LG. The DT 91 Oliver split the double-team and joined in on the sack.
Sack 5. His man went inside on a stunt.
Sack 6. Tunsil got beat again, but DW4 stepped up; only to see more pressure.
Tunsil did not recover. He allowed his man to chase DW4 to the other side of the field for the sack.
Sack 7. Tunsil was in a double-team with the LG.
......
That's not even an average LT to me.
The Bills’ seven sacks - A quick look as to where Tunsil was on those plays.
Every Bills sack against the Texans | AFC Wild Card
www.buffalobills.comDeshaun Watson is getting sacked too many times again
The Texans allowed a season-high seven sacks in the Wild Card Round. The Chiefs will be looking to replicate that.
Sack 1. Tunsil got beat right off the bat; even with the help from the RB, the edge player still sacked DW4 - Yes, there were other problems besides Tunsil, too.
Sack 2. Tunsil was in a double-team with the LG.
Sack 3. Tusnsil’s man went inside on a stunt.
Sack 4. Tunsil was in a double-team with the LG. The DT 91 Oliver split the double-team and joined in on the sack.
Sack 5. His man went inside on a stunt.
Sack 6. Tunsil got beat again, but DW4 stepped up; only to see more pressure.
Tunsil did not recover. He allowed his man to chase DW4 to the other side of the field for the sack.
Sack 7. Tunsil was in a double-team with the LG.
......
That's not even an average LT to me.
Go listen to 30 yr OL coach Paul Alexander on this subject on a Moving the Chains Podcast after the Bills game. I'm sure it's up. The issues are far more deep than OL play. I will choose to trust Alexander's evals over yours and your illusion creating screen shots.
Still cant get past those 3 sacks allowed all yr stat can you. It's OK to admit you're wrong even though we all know that will never happen.
Getting beat right off the bat is still getting beat.
Receiving double-team help is still that.
And no, I haven't finished reviewing all the games yet.
I don't need to repeat myself a thousand times that sack is not the only thing.
You don't think Bob's playcalling sucks?
Smdh
Laremy Tunsil.
Most penalized OT in the NFL last year.
www.nflpenalties.com
Most penalized OT in the NFL last year.
Offensive Line / Tackle - 2019 Penalties - View by Player
All penalties commited by the Offensive Line / Tackle position during the 2019 season, viewed by player.
www.nflpenalties.com
Has anyone disputed that?
Duane Brown allowed just 1 sack and 3 penalties; he's not even in the top 101 by PFF and not among the top 12 OT.
Tunsil was charged with 3 sacks and 18 penalties and you think he's good. Oh, OK.
And that doesn't even count the 3 penalties that were declined by the opponents.
Last edited:
I can hardly believe that you don't realize how ridiculous you sound
And there was Eric Fisher, who only played 8 games in the regular season.
He was charged for 1 sack and zero penalty.
The Chiefs were 8-0 with him in the line-up.
He came back in the play-offs, and the rest is history.
He doesn't qualify to be ranked in the regular season, but yeah, I'd take him any day over Tunsil.
He was charged for 1 sack and zero penalty.
The Chiefs were 8-0 with him in the line-up.
He came back in the play-offs, and the rest is history.
He doesn't qualify to be ranked in the regular season, but yeah, I'd take him any day over Tunsil.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
dawkins was very intriguing. Knowing need and value I was very disappointed passing on him despite selecting Cunningham. Felt both would be great pics. This is when if I were a GM a I’d have sense of urgency to trade back up for Dawkins. Texans needed both.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Of course, Stanley was not available to the Texans. Had Tunsil had the benefit of a full offseason and preseason with the Texans (he was traded Aug 31), I have no doubt that his 2019 performance would have been enhanced, and likely would have matched or exceeded Stanley.
