VY comparisons--a list.

Discussion in 'College Football & the NFL Draft' started by Texans_Chick, Jan 12, 2006.

  1. Texans_Chick

    Texans_Chick Utopian Dreamer

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,282
    Likes Received:
    1,071
    Lots of arguments left and right trying to compare Reggie Bush and Vince Young to a lot of different people.

    It is my belief that there are not really good comparisons out there because they are such different, spectacular players. People want to do the comparisons because then they can try to project the player's careers.

    College stats can't be exactly translated to the NFL, but most all the players came from college so it is just one thing to look at.

    I am going to take the stats from another thread and put them in this one. They are the last college year stats of various players whose names have been thrown around as relevant comparisons to VY.

    I left out a couple of players people have mentioned because I couldn't easily find their stats. (Steve McNair, Randall Cunningham). Please add them if you find them.

    I suggest if you want to talk about the comparisons, not to put them in this thread but rather in this other one and keep this one clean:

    Vince Young: Relevant Comparisons

    If you have last college season stats of other players you think are relevant, please add them to this thread.

    Also, I suggest doing another thread for Bush, comparing his stats to various people you might think are comparable. I would be interested in seeing that. If you want to volunteer to do that, respond to this thread so that a bunch of folks aren't duplicating work.

    Anyway, here are the stats of VY and people he has been compared to and their draft positions etc:

    Vince Young (last college season), Drafted ???? 6’ 5” 230 lbs

    3036 passing yards
    65.2 completion percentage
    325 attempts for 212 completions, 9.3 av yards per attempt
    26 passing TDs with 10 INTs
    155 rushes for 1050 yards, 6.8 av yards per attempt, 12 rushing TDs

    Donovan McNabb (last college season): Drafted 2nd, 6’’2” 240 lbs

    2326 passing yards
    60.85 completion percentage
    281 attempts for 171 completions, 8.3 av yards per attempt
    23 passing TDs with 6 INTs
    155 rushes for 510 yards, 3.3 av yards per attempt, 8 rushing TDs


    Daunte Culpepper (last college season) Drafted 11th, 6’4”. 264 lbs:

    3690 passing yards
    73.63 completion percentage
    402 attempts for 296 completions, 9.2 av yards per attempt
    28 passing TDs with 7 INTs
    141 rushes for 463 yards, 3.3 av yards per attempt, 12 rushing TDs

    Against the following opponents:

    at Louisiana Tech
    Eastern Illinois
    at Purdue
    at Bowling Green
    at Toledo
    Northern Illinois
    at SW Louisiana
    Youngstown St.
    at Auburn
    Ball St.
    New Mexico

    There were a lot of questions about his development because of his competition--which partially explains his draft position. IIRC, some people thought that the Vikings were reaching picking a QB in the first round because they already had Jeff George and Randall Cunningham.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo.../12/culpepper/

    Mike Vick (last college season), Drafted 1st, 6’0”, 214 lbs

    1439 passing yards
    54.19 completion percentage
    179 attempts for 97 completions, 8.0 av yards per attempt
    9 passing TDs with 7 INTs
    113 rushes for 636 yards, 5.6 av yards per attempt, 9 rushing TDs

    Akili Smith (last college season), Drafted 3rd, 6’3”, 220 lbs

    3763 passing yards
    57.95 completion percentage
    371 attempts for 215 completion , 10.1 av yards per attempt
    32 passing TDs with 9 INTs
    82 rushes for 184 yards, 2.2 av yards per attempt, 4 rushing TDs

    David Carr (last college season-including bowl game), Drafted 1st, 6'3", 220lbs

    4830 passing yards
    64.5 completion percentage
    532 attempts for 343 completions, 9.1 av yards per attempt
    46 passing TDs with 9 INTs
    93 rushes for 74 yards, .8 av yards per attempt, 5 rushing TDs
     
    Double Barrel likes this.
  2. Big B Texan Fan

    Big B Texan Fan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,098
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Spring TX
    Texan Chick-

    That was idea to start this thread. Way to go compiling all those stats. I hope McNair/Reeves/Casserly/Kubiak sees this.

    My comparison

    Last college season for DD
    0 attempts @ pushing QB in endzone to avoid losing

    Last college season for Bush
    1 attempt (no flag thrown) @ pushing QB in the Endzone to avoid losing

    He was a non factor on that drive. On 3rd down, was he even on the field?
     
  3. Long-Spurs-Texan

    Long-Spurs-Texan Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Southlake, TX
    GREAT post Texans Chick. That is some eye opening stuff. How many of those QB's led their team to a National Championship while going undefeated? Also, how many led the NCAA's in effeciency? Maybe you could add Steve McNair, Ben Roethlisberger, Jake Plummer, Byron Leftwich, Aaron Brooks, and David Garrard to that list as well.
     
  4. Jack Bauer

    Jack Bauer All Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    This has what to do with QB comparisons? :challenge
     
  5. gtexan02

    gtexan02 Working?

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    15,785
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Location:
    Boston
    Why don't you compare his stats to Kordell Stewart? Seems pretty similar

    Stewart had something like 3000 yards passing, 500 yards rushing and similar TDs to Young. He came into the NFL, succeeded for a couple years, then turned into a total bust
     
  6. run-david-run

    run-david-run Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,370
    Likes Received:
    61
    Location:
    The University of Texas
    Hey, what about DC's stats? something like 4800 yds and 40 TD's, not too shabby..
     
  7. Big B Texan Fan

    Big B Texan Fan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,098
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Spring TX
    I'll just start a new thread then. J/K
     
  8. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    39,334
    Likes Received:
    1,882
    Location:
    Texas
    I and many others have been saying Young was more like McNabb and Culpepper than Vick. This kind of backs up that statement. You can't tell me that you wouldn't trade David Carr for McNabb, or Culpepper. You can't tell me we wouldn't have won more games this past year, with Culpepper and McNabb. It's a totally different game, when those two are behind Center. How many ProBowl offensive linemen come out of Philadelphia and Minnesota??

    Domanick Davis would be perfect for a Minnesota style offense(the year they went to NFC Championship Game) when Robert Smith looked like a probowler(I don't know if he went that year or not).

    You can't use Leftwich for their quarterback styles, Brunnel is more like Vince, than Byron. I like Byron too, but I don't think our team dynamic would change much with Byron on our team. The only time I use Byron as a comparison, is when I get that Rookie QBs don't add to the offense line which is true more than not. McNabb and Culpepper would have made positive impact if they were allowed to start..... of course, this is speculation.


    Texans_Chick, thanks for doing this. I didn't really watch either of those two in the college, so I had no idea, but what I envision from Young, is more like Donavan, and McNabb. Throw first, check your reads, then run if you've got to. Offensive line isn't given you time?? Just take off, and that will slow a defense down a lot more than play action passing ever will.
     


  9. tulexan

    tulexan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    5,080
    Likes Received:
    106
    That's funny because Daunte Culpepper lost Matt Birk for the season and was not nearly the same player. He was being rushed a lot more and was being pressured and his stats showed it by throwing 6 touchdowns compared to 12 interceptions in the first 7 games.
     
  10. texan279

    texan279 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    6,216
    Likes Received:
    165
    Location:
    Rosenberg TX
    He threw for 46 TD's, 4839 yards, 62.8 completion percentage, 6th player in NCAA history to throw for over 40 TD's and 4,000 yards, also won 4 awards his senior season including the Johnny Unitas award, was named WAC offensive player of the year, and first team WAC.
     
  11. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    39,334
    Likes Received:
    1,882
    Location:
    Texas

    So you're saying you wouldn't trade David Carr for Dante??
     
  12. tulexan

    tulexan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    5,080
    Likes Received:
    106

    I really don't know. I don't know how much of Daunte's success is do to Randy Moss and how much of Carr's failures are do to his line. I'd like a full season where Daunte had no Randy and where Carr had a line to make my decision.
     
  13. beerlover

    beerlover Site Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    13,025
    Likes Received:
    556
    I believe that Vince breaks the mold and there is no comp. more a combination of all the best attributes- the leadership of Joe Montana, the pocket strength of Terry Bradshaw, the running ability of Michael Vic, the throwing accuracy on the run of John Elway & someday consecutive Superbowl Championships of a Tom Brady & Troy Aikmen :)
     
  14. tulexan

    tulexan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    5,080
    Likes Received:
    106
    And the arm strength of 2005 Chad Pennington
     
  15. dat_boy_yec

    dat_boy_yec All Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    25
    Yeah I would take Carr over Culpepper I mean the guy lost Moss and does horrible. Carr lost AJ for most of the season, but still posted decent #s. Culpepper had the opportunity to do well this year and didn't capitalize on it. Injury aside when Johnson took over they as a team improved. If Carr is out of the game and they put in Banks I almost want to change channels to avoid having my retinas explode from what I have to put them through. Leftwich is out and Garrard put up good #'s and beleive it or not I think if Garrard had been in during the Pats game they would have had a better opportunity. I'm not a die hard Carr fan and if they draft VY, then cool. In my opinion though Carr has proven he has talent, untapped talent, but I believe it's there. Also thunder kiss get off the gas man. McNabb and Culpepper did well, because they had good coaching and talent around them. They can step back and see the pocket crumbling, Carr can't do that. What Carr does is step back and start counting clouds because there is no pocket in his world and after the momentary loss of consciousness after a hit he didn't see coming the only comfort he can take in this world is that the clouds won't fail him.
     
  16. Tulip

    Tulip Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,864
    Likes Received:
    38
    Excellent post. This is the most relevant comparison thread I've seen thus far. Thanks for the info.
     
  17. Long-Spurs-Texan

    Long-Spurs-Texan Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Southlake, TX
    Who are you talking about?
     
  18. MorKnolle

    MorKnolle Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    127
    Let's not get carried away with the comparisons. I refuse to say he has the leadership of Joe Montana until he wins a couple Super Bowls (I am reluctantly beginning to admit Brady is getting to Montana's elite class here). I don't really know what you mean by pocket strength either, and I'm not real sure how he compares to Terry Bradshaw anyways. Vince does not have quite the same running ability of Vick, his top straight-line speed they may be about equal but Vick is much quicker, and his smaller size makes him more elusive, albeit not quite as strong of a runner as Vince. I don't see him throw on the run very much, maybe I've just missed it but I haven't seen it, and either way I refuse to compare him to a John Elway considering he hasn't played an NFL down yet. Anyways, Vince should be a very good NFL QB, but to bring in all these legendary, hall of fame QBs and compare Vince to the "combination of their best abilities" is a little ridiculous and definitely premature in my mind.

    As for the Carr/Culpepper debate, I think Culpepper needs a certain type of offense and a dominant WR, then he can put up amazing #s (like he did in 2004), but otherwise I think he has had a tendency to have very sub-par years (2005 and a couple of his seasons before 2004), not to mention I think he has no leadership and is very weak-minded, in the sense that he gets rattled very easily and allows himself to be taken out of games and sulk when things don't go his way. Carr has taken a lot of knocks in his four years but he has never started crying on the sideline like Culpepper almost has a few times. I think Culpepper maybe has the potential to put up legendary numbers in the right system that Carr might not be able to quite attain (again look at 2004), but Carr overall can fit into a variety of systems better, and I think Carr in Minnesota's 2004 system would have put up fairly comparable numbers.
     
  19. Texans_Chick

    Texans_Chick Utopian Dreamer

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,282
    Likes Received:
    1,071
    List Re-Do

    Anyway, here are the stats of VY and various people he has been compared to and their draft positions etc (many of these comparisons I do not get at all):

    Vince Young (last college season), Drafted ???? 6’ 5” 230 lbs

    3036 passing yards
    65.2 completion percentage
    325 attempts for 212 completions, 9.3 av yards per attempt
    26 passing TDs with 10 INTs
    155 rushes for 1050 yards, 6.8 av yards per attempt, 12 rushing TDs

    Donovan McNabb (last college season): Drafted 2nd, 6’’2” 240 lbs

    2326 passing yards
    60.85 completion percentage
    281 attempts for 171 completions, 8.3 av yards per attempt
    23 passing TDs with 6 INTs
    155 rushes for 510 yards, 3.3 av yards per attempt, 8 rushing TDs


    Daunte Culpepper (last college season) Drafted 11th, 6’4”. 264 lbs:

    3690 passing yards
    73.63 completion percentage
    402 attempts for 296 completions, 9.2 av yards per attempt
    28 passing TDs with 7 INTs
    141 rushes for 463 yards, 3.3 av yards per attempt, 12 rushing TDs

    Against the following opponents:

    at Louisiana Tech
    Eastern Illinois
    at Purdue
    at Bowling Green
    at Toledo
    Northern Illinois
    at SW Louisiana
    Youngstown St.
    at Auburn
    Ball St.
    New Mexico

    There were a lot of questions about his development because of his competition--which partially explains his draft position. IIRC, some people thought that the Vikings were reaching picking a QB in the first round because they already had Jeff George and Randall Cunningham.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo.../12/culpepper/

    Mike Vick (last college season), Drafted 1st, 6’0”, 214 lbs

    1439 passing yards
    54.19 completion percentage
    179 attempts for 97 completions, 8.0 av yards per attempt
    9 passing TDs with 7 INTs
    113 rushes for 636 yards, 5.6 av yards per attempt, 9 rushing TDs

    Akili Smith (last college season), Drafted 3rd, 6’3”, 220 lbs

    3763 passing yards
    57.95 completion percentage
    371 attempts for 215 completion , 10.1 av yards per attempt
    32 passing TDs with 9 INTs
    82 rushes for 184 yards, 2.2 av yards per attempt, 4 rushing TDs

    Ben Roethlisberger (last college season), Drafted 11th, 6'5", 241 lbs

    3034 passing yards
    64.4 completion percentage
    396 attempts for 255 completions, 7.7 av yards per attempt
    21 passing TDs with 11 INTs
    70 rushes for -77 yards, -1.1 av yards per attempt,

    David Carr (last college season-including bowl game), Drafted 1st, 6'3", 220lbs

    4830 passing yards
    64.5 completion percentage
    532 attempts for 343 completions, 9.1 av yards per attempt
    46 passing TDs with 9 INTs
    93 rushes for 74 yards, .8 av yards per attempt, 5 rushing TDs[/QUOTE]
     
  20. AustinJB

    AustinJB All Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Stats don't tell the whole story, but it's all you have to go off of until they take a snap in the NFL.

    Looks like VY had comparable passing yards, comp.%, etc. to McNabb, Culpepper and BenR. And way better than Vick.

    PLUS he has a LOT more rushing yards than everyone, including Vick. I'm so sick of the "He's a run first QB". Looks like he puts up just as many passing yards as the others. People just can't understand that just b/c he runs well doesn't mean he can't pass. He looks for the pass just as much as all of these others do; he just adds an extra weapon by being able to run better than any of them when the pass isn't there.
     

Share This Page