Video and Analysis of Secondary Problems vs. KC

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by dalemurphy, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    I'm not quite defending Kareem Jackson and the CBs but I think their growth has been stunted by the very poor play of our veteran safeties and LBs. Here's the article with video, if interested:

    Pollard, Diles, and Others Haven't a Clue!
     
  2. silvrhand

    silvrhand Site Contributor

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    Cushing really needs some work on his drops badly.. I guess those 64" stick jumping didn't help.. :\
     
  3. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    I see lots of guys trying to make plays but few fulfilling their responsibilities. Not good... but, correctable.
     
  4. JB

    JB Old Curmudgeon

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    I think that's it! Too many guys trying to do to much instead of doing their job and trusting their teammates.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2010
  5. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    I think you hit the nail on the head, I believe it's a trust issue.

    I hope more people understand it's not primarily a weakness at the CB spot that ails our defense. We give up 300 yards to Fullbacks & tight ends to Washington & Indy, but they see Kareem chasing Galloway on a big play, and they blame him form the whole 400 yards.

    You got receivers going for 200 yards against Oakland, but they want to blame the youth of our secondary.

    We have a game against veteran CBs where two of our Receivers break 150 yards apiece on them... That don't happen in H-Town.

    Eli Manning throws for 386 against the Tacks, they allowed 400 yards to Tony Romo & THE NFL wants to talk about our pass defense.....humph.

    We shut down "the most productive receiver in the NFL" nobody else has done that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2010
  6. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    When our coach says simplifying, that is what I think he is trying to correct, not dumbing down the defense.
     
  7. wagonhed

    wagonhed Team Gruden

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    Man. That's bad. I mean, I already knew it was bad, but seriously.
     
  8. TexansBull

    TexansBull Hall of Fame

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    So is this problem easier to fix than the current perception that the corners are the problem?
     


  9. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    Well, I would say that it isn't a talent issue. So, it is possible to fix, but I'm not sure if it is easier or not. If the problem was simply Kareem Jackson, then perhaps plugging in Molden would solve it.
     
  10. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    also painful is we had really good pressure in all but the first replay, and cassell stared down his primary receiver in all of the replays. if even forced into his second read with better coverage, 4 of those plays had real chance to turn into a negative play or turnover.
     
    BigBull17 and thunderkyss like this.
  11. Texanmike02

    Texanmike02 Site Contributor

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    Dale,

    You know I'm not attacking what you do. I've defended it before and I really enjoy reading it. That said, for us to presume we know exactly where every player should be is a little out there. I'm not questioning your knowledge and I agree with the overall assessment that its a big charlie foxtrot with nobody trusting anyone but I think its hard to highlight any one player on one play. Everyone is doing too much which means everyone is a little out of position.

    That's just my opinion. And I still like reading yours just thought I would post the obvious.

    Mike
     
  12. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    Mike,

    You make a good point. We try to acknowledge the reality of our limited information in our blog. However, sometimes things can be very clear. For instance, it is very easy to tell when the team is playing Cover 2 and what the responsibilities are for that. Or, when they are playing straight man defense, it is fairly easy to identify responsibility.

    I absolutely agree with your main assessment, though, that the problems are not about one or two players. It is about the group as a whole. That essentially is the point I'm attempting to make in this article and with the video. We tend to see the CB trailing the WR and assume he screwed up. Unfortunately, often it has to do with the LBs and safeties as well.

    What I can say with some certainty, however, is that the LBs and Pollard have simply not been in position way too often this season. Acknowledging the fallibility of what we are doing, a large percentage of the video we are showing and conclusions we are drawing are likely fairly accurate. We tend to shy away from plays where it is difficult to assess what is happening.
     
  13. MojoX

    MojoX Veteran

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    Nice analysis. It is tough to work without perfect information, but it is telling when one sees too many linebackers in the same zone covering the same receiver or see Pollard turn and start sprinting after the TE after standing next to the LB, staring down the back.

    Of course this frustration and lack of discipline about proper assignments affects not only coverage, but team tackling.

    Thanks.
     
  14. Texanmike02

    Texanmike02 Site Contributor

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    Before Cushing came back I posted (maybe on the skins board) that I thought we would get significantly better with his coverage skills loosening up the requirements on the safety and allowing everything to shift back to the way it was last year. Unfortunately that hasn't happened. I hope we see the results of that starting soon. I also think that in an odd way... Ryans absence may help us with our coverage. I think he's a stud and a brilliant player but I've always wondered if his physical limitations don't play well with some of our LBs. Sharpton is pretty fluid as is Adibi but I think when we have Ryans, cush and diles out there that we are severely lacking in physical athletic ability. I have never been willing to make the trade off of Ryans limitations in exchange for more athletic and less cerebral. I guess we're going to see.

    And again. I'm a fan of what you do, that was just an observation. Even just breaking down the video (I am watching fewer and fewer games a second time, that's one reason I haven't been posting in the football area much) gives me a pretty good look at what we're really dealing with. The video alone is worth its weight in gold.... the commentary is a bonus. And like I said, you're probably pretty close to it... Thanks for it again.

    Mike
     
  15. hradhak

    hradhak Site Contributor

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    Thanks for the video. It says a lot.

    Kubiak was saying on the presser that they were going to simplify the secondary (and it's happened to some extent). What I don't get is why is it that complicated to begin with? These guys are veterans, they should understand things like cover 2 and zone, etc.

    Also, I'm really irritated with the way we tackle. I shouldn't even use the word tackle, we're looking to hit people most of the time and try and end it right then and there. We hardly ever tackle with good form, and I think that has something to do with our defensive woes.
     
  16. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    I think it will be easier to cover up, but we've been having this same problem since Kubiak got here.

    I know I'm in the Kubiak Sunshine club, & this might get me kicked out. But I've been saying there are valid reasons to criticize Kubiak, but most of the haters don't ever go there. They rather pick on more subjective issues. But our LBs have sucked in pass defense before Kubiak got here, & it has gotten no better.

    I thought that was why we drafted Xavier Adibi & was looking at Cato June. But Adibi is always hurt & Diles has been playing so well against the run, I understand not taking him off the field.

    Cushing is fine, for a man his size, he's got pretty good wheels, drops back fine, and usually finds the passing lanes. He's great at reading the QB. You take into account his physicality & his ability to rush the passer, you can't take him off the field.

    Demeco... love the guy, excellent downhill runner, good speed, smart..... but reacts too slow in pass defense if you ask me. Not very good at reading the QB or anticipating the passing lanes.

    IMHO, Diles is a Demeco clone. What he brings at the LOS is worth keeping him on the field. But with Diles & Demeco on the field, your corners better keep the WRs in front of them & they better be damn good tacklers. You're basically playing with 4 safeties on the field.


    .
     
  17. silvrhand

    silvrhand Site Contributor

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    Thunder.. you are drinking the koolaid again.. Cushing is horrible in his zone drops, he's not reading the QB at all in zone coverage, he's drifting towards the middle everytime the TE drags across, or the RB releases into the flat.

    Example #1 of this video is a prime example of Cushing's issue. He's drifting with the people that come into his zone getting him out of position, which means he's reading the players not the QB, which is basically staring down his receiver the WHOLE time.

    MLB no matter who plays first responsibility is the run, then draw, then getting back into their zone and reading the QB's eyes. Late drops are typical for MLB's simply cause that's their order of priority.

    Diles has been the WORST of them all he actually starts following the TE into the MLB's zone. COMPLETLY leaving the easiest throw for a NFL QB to make, the quick slant which he can then keep down and low and give the CB almost no chance to make a play. Of course the CB's playing so far off in cover two is horrible as well.. I was a big Diles fan, but man this year he's just playing horrible for some reason.
     
  18. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    My assessment of Cushing is mostly from last year, he's showing a little rust in the two games he's been in this year. My assessment conforms to the way he played last year, very active in pass defense. We've never had a LB on this team that actually made it difficult for a QB to complete passes, other than Cush.
    If I were coaching LBs, instead of telling him his responsibilities are as you pointed, I'd try to teach him to recognize situations, tendencies, formations, & players.... he can learn a lot about what's going to happen before the snap, so he can get the defense in the optimum position to make a play.

    Best MLB in the game today is Brian Urlacher if you ask me. The way he drops in coverage to cover the TE & some times slot recievers, there is no way he's playing run first, draw, coverage.

    The way Demeco & our guys get burned on the passes over the middle, I can believe they were coached the way you suggest.

    We need to fire that coach.
    If Demeco would handle his business, instead of playing the run/draw, maybe Diles would leave that TE alone.

    If our LBs handled their business, our CBs can handle theirs. As it is, they have to play quarters coverage when they should be playing cover 2.
     
  19. silvrhand

    silvrhand Site Contributor

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    I don't remember looking at Cushing last year going, wow he is really great in pass coverage.. if anything I remember last year going wow he really needs to work on his coverage..

    Urlacher.. Hmm I don't agree here I would much rather have Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis, Bart Scott, and then Demeco/Urlacher.. Honestly Demeco has been one of the top 5-8 MLB's in the game, I personally he's the least of our issues on defense.

    Really? If anything I see late drops by Demeco are far less worrisome than the OLB completely bailing their zones and key'ing on the wrong players, especially when they are not reading the QB.

    Drop to your zone
    Watch the QB, wait for him to look the receiver down.
    Make a break on the ball, not the player.
    execute execute execute..
     
  20. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    I was definitely saying, "Finally, a LB who can get his hands on the ball." he had several tips last year, plus INTs, & I can remember thinking If Cushing wasn't there, that would have been a first down throw, instead of that checkdown throw... at least once.
    Yeah... I didn't mean the best, I meant best in coverage. I've seen Urlacher run with Reggie Wayne up the middle of the field..... impressive.
    The last 6 games have been horrible, because none of the three have been where they should be. I agree, we see them bunched up around Demeco way too often. But I'm just not seeing Ryans breaking on the ball very often.
    Yep, yep, yep.....
     

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