Trying to get an early idea of 53 Wow Tuff

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by srrono, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. srrono

    srrono Hall of Fame

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    I was looking at roster and man this year Texans are going to be cutting some good players. This is a sign of a good team when your scraps are good players.


    Caldwell, Antoine G
    Carmichael, Roc DB
    Demps, Quintin DB
    Harris, Brandon DB
    Jackson, Kareem DB
    Joseph, Johnathan DB
    Keo, Shiloh DB
    Manning, Danieal DB
    McCain, Brice DB
    McManis, Sherrick DB
    Nolan, Troy DB
    Quin, Glover DB
    Williams, Torri DB
    Barwin, Connor DE
    Cody, Shaun NT
    Jamison, Tim DE
    Nading, Jesse DE
    Smith, Antonio DE
    Watt, J.J. DE
    Harris, Ra'Shon NT
    Mitchell, Earl NT
    Myers, Chris C
    Smith, Shelley G
    Alexander, Mister LB
    Braman, Bryan LB
    Cushing, Brian LB
    Reed, Brooks LB
    Sharpton, Darryl LB
    Smith, Derrell LB
    Weeks, Jon LS
    Austin, Thomas OG
    Brown, Duane OT
    Butler, Rashad OT
    Gardner, Andrew OT
    Newton, Derek OT
    Hartmann, Brett P
    Jones, Donnie P
    Schaub, Matt QB
    Yates, T.J. QB
    Foster, Arian RB
    Tate, Ben RB
    Williams, Javarris RB
    Smith, Wade G
    Casey, James TE
    Daniels, Owen TE
    Graham, Garrett TE
    Holliday, Trindon WR
    Iglesias, Juaquin WR
    Jean, Lestar WR
    Johnson, Andre WR
    Jones, Jacoby WR
    Maehl, Jeff WR
    Walter, Kevin WR

    FA SIGNINGS
    Donnie Jones P
    Bradie James LB
    Tim Dobbins LB

    DRAFT
    Round 1, Pick 26 (26) Whitney Mercilus DE 6'3" 261 Illinois
    Round 3, Pick 5 (68) DeVier Posey WR 6'1" 211 Ohio St.
    Round 3, Pick 13 (76) Brandon Brooks G 6'5" 343 Miami (OH)
    Round 4, Pick 4 (99) Ben Jones C 6'2" 303 Georgia
    Round 4, Pick 26 (121) Keshawn Martin WR 5'11" 192 Michigan St.
    Round 4, Pick 31 (126) Jared Crick DT 6'4" 279 Nebraska
    Round 5, Pick 26 (161) Randy Bullock K 5'9" 205 Texas A&M
    Round 6, Pick 25 (195) Nick Mondek OT 6'6" 304 Purdue

    UDFA'S
    Eddie Pleasant, S, Oregon
    Delano Johnson, DE/OLB, Bowie State
    David Hunter, DT, Houston
    Tracy Robertson, DT, Baylor
    Greg Williams, LB, Pitt
    Rennie Moore, DT Clemson
    Hebron “Loni” Fangupo, NT, BYU
    Dwight Jones, WR, North Carolina
    Logan Brock, TE, TCU
    Philip Supernaw, TE, Ouachita Baptist
    Jason Ford, FB, Illinois
    Jonathan Grimes, RB, William & Mary
    Cody White, OT, Illinois State
    Davin Meggett, RB, Maryland
    DJ Bryant, DE, James Madison
    Desmond Marrow, S, Toledo
    Jerrell Jackson, S, Missouri
    Shawn Loiseau, LB, Merrimack
    Mario Louis, WR, Grambling St
    Nate Menkin, OT, Mary Hardin-Baylor
    Case Keenum, QB, Houston
    Logan Brock, TE, TCU
     
  2. GP

    GP Go Texans!

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    I'll take a stab at it. Everyone needs to know that I am not confident in my evaluation skills regarding OL. Never have been, never will. But I think I nailed the starters and it's the depth on OL that I am unsure about--How many we'll take each Sunday and who those will be.

    EDIT: I am unsure about the Dobbins-Sharpton-Alexander trio there in the LB lineup below. Too close to call right now.


    QB1: Yates
    QB2: Unnamed vet, yet to be determined
    QB3: Keenum (running the scout team on our practice squad like TJ did)

    RT: Butler

    RG: Caldwell

    C: Myers

    LG: W. Smith

    LT: D. Brown

    DEPTH ON OL:

    OL: Ben Jones (rookie)
    OL: Brandon Brooks (rookie)
    OL: D. Newton
    OL: Shelley Smith

    RB1: Foster
    RB2: Tate
    RB3: To be determined (Megget early on, but not sure if he sticks)

    FB: Jason Ford (luckiest NFL player on the planet)

    WR1: Andre Johnson
    WR2: Kevin Walter
    WR3: Lestar Jean
    WR4: DeVier Posey (rookie) will challenge for WR3 duties, IMO
    WR5: Martin (rookie) will return punts, and maybe kickoffs too

    TE1: Daniels
    TE2: Graham
    TE3: Casey

    K: Bullock

    P: D. Jones

    LS: Weeks

    FYI: Schaub will not cost a roster spot because he'll be PUP'd to start season, IMO.

    Total for offense and special teams: 27 players

    ---------------

    RDE: Watt
    Nose: Cody
    LDE: Smith


    DEPTH ON DL: Mitchell, Bulman, Jamison, Crick

    OLB: Mercilus
    MLB: Cushing
    ILB: Dobbins/Sharpton winner out of camp and preseason
    OLB: Barwin

    DEPTH AT LB: B. Reed, B. James, M. Alexander, B. Braman

    CB1: Joseph
    CB2: KJ (uggh...)

    Depth at CB: Carmichael, McCain, Harris, McManis

    S: Manning
    S: Quin

    Depth at S: Demps, Nolan, Keo (uggh...)

    Total for defense: 26 players

    Total: 53 (you can have a 53rd player if that player is a 3rd "emergency" QB)

    ------------------------

    The following is the scrap heap of leftover players. These players are battling for a spot with their counterparts who are listed above. I think they are on the outside looking in, in respect to how we drafted this year. I cannot foresee Kubiak chancing almost every player from the draft to the risk of waiver wire claims. Mondek is the only guy I think gets cut and sent to the PS out of all of our 2012 draft picks. Seriously.

    FYI #1: I think last year Kubiak went with 5 WR. It can be argued that he might send Martin to the PS and promote Maehl to the game day roster...but I think Martin was drafted to take punt return duties that JJ handled (or mishandled).

    Guys who I think will make practice squad are in RED, because none of those guys will get claimed and they will add great carry-over depth into 2013:

    Nading, Jesse DE (gets cut, just won't make this stacked roster we have)
    Harris, Ra'Shon NT
    Smith, Derrell LB
    Austin, Thomas OG
    Gardner, Andrew OT
    Hartmann, Brett P (gets cut only if Donnie Jones impresses in preseason)
    Turk, Matt P (odd man out in any situation)
    Williams, Javarris RB
    Holliday, Trindon WR (end of the line for tricycle)
    Iglesias, Juaquin WR
    Maehl, Jeff WR (not sure if he is PS eligible still)
    Round 6, Pick 25 (195) Nick Mondek OT 6'6" 304 Purdue

    UDFA'S
    Eddie Pleasant, S, Oregon
    Delano Johnson, DE/OLB, Bowie State
    David Hunter, DT, Houston
    Tracy Robertson, DT, Baylor
    Greg Williams, LB, Pitt
    Rennie Moore, DT Clemson
    Hebron “Loni” Fangupo, NT, BYU
    Dwight Jones, WR, North Carolina
    Logan Brock, TE, TCU

    Philip Supernaw, TE, Ouachita Baptist
    Jonathan Grimes, RB, William & Mary
    Cody White, OT, Illinois State
    Davin Meggett, RB, Maryland
    DJ Bryant, DE, James Madison
    Desmond Marrow, S, Toledo
    Jerrell Jackson, S, Missouri
    Shawn Loiseau, LB, Merrimack
    Mario Louis, WR, Grambling St
    Nate Menkin, OT, Mary Hardin-Baylor
    Logan Brock, TE, TCU
     
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  3. Allstar

    Allstar Bona fide

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    GP, Schaub says he'll be 100% at the start of camp, yet you think he'll be PUP'd? Even if he suffers a setback, you want to automatically shelf him for the first 6 weeks of the regualar season? That's like 4 months after the time he says he'll be healthy...
     
  4. GP

    GP Go Texans!

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    Based on NFL players who have this type of injury, IIRC, it's pretty much a full 12 months from the time of injury before they test it out in a real game situation.

    Being in a team facility where the player is protected and not subjected to live bullets is different than having to react "in real time" which puts stresses on the foot unlike what he'd go through in a protected environment. In a real game, he cannot slow down or ask for mercy from a LB trying to plant him into the ground...so there's a huge difference in how the foot is asked to perform.

    I expect Schaub to see his first reg season action after he comes off the PUP. They will want to see if he can handle the pressures placed upon his foot and to see if the rust is knocked off enough before thinking about giving him a new contract in 2013. Then again, it's plausible to think that we could be rocking and rolling so well...Schaub never hits the field at all. But if I know Kubiak, I think he'll try to fit Schaub into the lineup to give the guy a fair shake at a new deal for 2013. Which is reasonable to me.

    The intricacies involved in his recovery and return to even somewhat usefulness is well-documented here. I think it's unfortunate (not that you're doing this, I'm just saying'...) that a lot of people hear someone like me say he'll be PUP'd and they think I just hate the guy. Contrary, I think he's better than Yates at this point so it means we have a better shot with Schaub than without him. But which Schaub will we get, and will he jump into the fray as early as preseason when they'll need to see if he can go week 1 in reg season??? To me, they'd be risking his whole future if they rushed him back as early as the preseason games in order to test it out and see.

    Yes, Schaub is a tough S.O.B. and I know he is working hard and has made progress. But making progress with this type of injury is not the same as others. Too many details to list, but it's true. Manning's neck fusion is an easier surgery to come back from than Schaub's particular foot injury. The two are miles apart on the "comeback" scale.

    I think Schaub will push to come back early, and I hope the Texans play it smart and hold him off. I don't want us to be known for sacrificing players' longevity just for short-term payoff for the team and contract year performance desires by guys like Schaub. It's a bad idea to push too hard, too soon.
     
  5. Allstar

    Allstar Bona fide

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    I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Schaub misses time, but all indications are that he will be ready to go to start camp. If there is any truth to that, I just can't see the team shelving him for 6 weeks when the games matter.
     
  6. GP

    GP Go Texans!

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    Being in camp is that safe, protected environment I am speaking of.

    Of course it's perfectly reasonable to think he'll be doing drills but not actually competing in a full-on contact session.

    He's going to have no pass rush put on him in camp, or at the best he'll have a simulated pass rush where coaches swat at him with foam noodles. It will never be anything near "live bullets" though, they won't risk a freak setback at this point. The goal will be to have him run on it, plant on it, throw off it, etc.

    If they intend him to start week 1 reg season...then that means, IMO, they have to push him to see full-on action in the preseason AND with the starters which means week 3 of preseason. That's too soon to throw him to the wolves, IMO. They'd be begging for a setback if they did that.

    Who knows, maybe he's the miracle guy and makes it back faster than others have. I just don't think it's the smart play, to rush him back for the temporary payoff at the risk of losing him forever. Matt, IMO, is balls to the wall and doesn't care. He's that competitive and I bet he wants to be back ASAP. But is it really the fair thing all the way around? That's where I question it all.

    It's a helluva' thing to come back from and just walk normally with no limp and no pain, let alone pounding on it for 4 full quarters 16+ times a year. I can't see how he makes it reg season week 1, honestly. But hey, whatever will be will be.
     
  7. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

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    Nice effort. I might quibble on some of the backend of the roster, but I think you've got the idea.
     
  8. GP

    GP Go Texans!

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    Thanks. I just went with what I think Kubiak normally does, his mindset about things, and the picks we made as it relates to the needs we have due to our offseason of woe.

    This might be the first time that practically every draft pick gets carried over to the final roster...teams will be salivating to poach guys like Ben Jones and Brandon Brooks and Jared Crick off our team if we cut them. Mondek is the only guy who gets cut, and even then I think he goes to the PS very easily.

    MY REASONS WITH OFFENSE:
    QB is iffy. Schaub might be back week 1 reg season, but I doubt it. Yates starts, a vet backs him, and Keenum The Killer running TJ's old job as scout team QB. Kubiak is methodical, consistent, predictable here.

    No real surprises at C nor at TE and WR. I think those positions are locked in fairly well. Maehl being the lone exception to the rule here.

    Kubiak generally goes with three RBs, so I think Foster and Tate are 1 and 2 with a 3rd guy to be determined later.

    I am unsure about starters at LG, RG, and RT. I think Kubiak goes with the guys I listed out of sheer need for normalcy and loyalty. It's what he does.


    MY REASONS WITH SPECIAL TEAMS:
    Punter is a pickle for us. Hartmann, man...I don't know. The freak accident in a game, the multi-game suspension, etc...if Donnie Jones excels early and often, Kubiak won't cut Donnie Jones. This is a real pickle, though. Does Hartmann count against our final 52 even if he's not able to play the first 3 or 4 games due to suspension???

    Kicker is an easy call.

    Long snapper is an easy call.


    MY REASONS ON DEFENSE:
    I am unsure at NT and depth on the DL.

    LB seems easy to predict, with the exception of some fringe depth guys. This could be debated till the cows come home. LOL.

    I think the secondary is pretty much locked in, in terms of who played last year and no real challengers brought in during draft or UDFA for that matter.
     


  9. XI CMURDER IX

    XI CMURDER IX Gig 'em

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  10. MidtownMikey

    MidtownMikey Rookie

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    GP,

    Where do you get the 12 months figure from or that Schaub will likely miss?

    Back when he got injured, I did some research on similar injuries.

    Now I did not research extremely in depth, but I did find similar injuries to some running backs, a safety, and Dwight Freeney.

    Out of those injuries, here were the results:

    Mike Brown - injuried in middle of season, back preseason & first game (though got knee injury in first game)

    Ronnie Brown - injured in middle of season, back preason (1st game) & played full season

    Dwight Freeny - injuried in middle of season, back preseason (3rd game) & first game, played full season (other than game 16 after Indie had things wrapped up)

    Kevin Jones - injured towards end of season, back on 3rd game of next season, though did not actually start until week 7 after bye

    Larry Johnson - injuried in middle of season, back preseason (1st game) and played most of season (missing games due to benching/suspension in middle of season)


    Now, the guys above may be "tougher" than Schaub, but I also would expect they put much more pressure on their feet (especially the running backs). If they were able to come back when they did, where do you get the idea Schaub will take so long? Would like to know what players/past injuries you are making the claim on...
     
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  11. GP

    GP Go Texans!

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    Looks pretty good to me. You have Schaub as QB1, Yates QB2, and Keenum QB3...but what if Schaub doesn't start week 1? Does that mean he's QB3 and that moves the other two guys up to QB1 and QB2?

    Also, you've got Lestar Jena making the PS. I think, just a bit of a bold prediction of mine, that he'll squeak into the game day roster.

    Lastly, you've got Brandon Brooks winning a starting job at Guard. I like the bold prediction, and it's plausible if he has a great camp and preseason.
     
  12. GP

    GP Go Texans!

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    A combo of what CnD has said and the fact that we're talking about a QB's plant foot...which requires him to balance, push, and twist all at the same time. Oh, and he's got guys trying to kill him and falling on him all the time.

    CnD is very up front about things like this, in terms of how a timetable is different based on lots of factors.

    I only worry that he'll come back too soon and it'll be the wrong move. I guess the Texans and Schaub will sort that stuff out, but it's a helluva' injury to work back from and be competent enough to be a starting QB in today's NFL.

    Just my two cents. We shall see soon enough though!
     
  13. MidtownMikey

    MidtownMikey Rookie

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    I'm definitely worried about the chance of reinjury, but I do not think his foot will get much stronger from being held out past the preseason. Another 330+ lber falling on him can fracture his foot whether he plays game 1, or game 7 or later. My expectation (and I'd practically be willing to bet on it) is that he gets held out of first two preseason games, gets token time in the 3rd (1 drive) and then as expected of all starters, is held out of the 4th preseason game.

    I think if there was legitimate concerns about Schaub's health, we would have already seen a vet QB signed, or even them drafting a QB in the first 4 rounds. I'm expecting from what we've seen, the FO believes fully that he will be ready for the season (or at least game 3, when the more difficult opponents begin).

    I think the drafting of the 3 OL show more to the FO's concern about potential reinjury/commitment to the running game. I'd also like to see how potential injury/long term effects may work in the Texans favor to resigning him on a discount after this season, even if he performs well. I guess as a backup, we can always slap the franchise tag on him too to get one more year out of him.

    When it comes to the final 53, I like your list GP, though I would not be surprised if Keo is beaten out by Marrow or another UDFA or if the Texans even go with one less safety and instead fill the spot with Loiseau for coverage team usage (practically the only place Keo was worth anything anyways). I also expect Mister is gone, as I will assume both Dobbins and James are kept (with Sharpton starting) along with Braman unless there is an injury or they completely dog it in preseason.
     
  14. Rey

    Rey Guest

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    It's really too early for me to call outside of the "known" guys, but I think we'll have a few guys that we bring in when cuts around the league start to happen. Some guys not even on that list may end up in a Texan uniform.

    But I'll give it the Ol' college try:

    QB: Schaub, Yates, Keenum
    HB: Foster, Tate, Grimes
    FB: (Free agent FB not currently on the roster -- Owen Schmitt, Leron McClain maybe)
    WR: Dre, Kevin, Posey, Martin, D. Jones, Jean, Trindon
    TE: OD, Casey, Grahm
    OL: Duane, Smith, Meyers, Brooks, Butler, Pondek, Newton, B. Jones, Caldwell

    DL: Smith, Cody, Watt, Crick, Mitchell, Jamison, Fangupo
    LB: Reed, Cushing, Alexander, Barwin, Merci, Braman, Nading, James, Dobbins
    S: Quinn, Manning, Nolan, Marrow, Demps
    CB: Kareem, Joseph, McCain, Harris, Carmichael


    K: Bullock
    P: Donnie Jones or Hartmann, Probably Jones
     
  15. MidtownMikey

    MidtownMikey Rookie

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    While I wish they wouldn't spend a roster spot on a long snapper and just let Casey do it or another position player, I expect they are keeping Weeks unless he gets injuried considering they gave him a new contract.

    You also left out Sharpton and put Mr. Alexander, which I don't see unless Sharpton's recovery is slower than expected (in which case I could see Sharpton start the season on the PUP, honestly I feel that is more likely than Schaub missing as a quad tear seems more severe, plus there have been no official updates on his status from what I've heard).

    I also don't see Holiday making the roster, though I won't offer a replacement for him since by my count it looks like you didn't include the FB in your 53. I am expecting Ford makes it as the FB unless they sign a vet like you suggested.


     
  16. MidtownMikey

    MidtownMikey Rookie

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    Then again, I did read that Ben Jones was the long snapper too at Georgia, so maybe they do let Weeks go to free up a spot. I wouldn't mind that...
     
  17. GP

    GP Go Texans!

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    I don't think we'll carry 7 WRs, rey.
     
  18. texasam82

    texasam82 Rookie

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    Couldn't agree more with you here... I have NO idea why people are acting with such certainty that Schaub will need more time. I have had a lisfranc fracture and I was fine after 6 weeks. The doctor told me that the main issue with the injury is ongoing pain in a moderate % of patients. This is not an injury that will debilitate you, it's one that can be a huge nuisance long term. My left foot is flat as a pancake now because of the shift in my tendons, but I have no pain at all. Schaub will be fine... Though he is getting older, so we better be prepared to replace him in a few years regardless.
     
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  19. XI CMURDER IX

    XI CMURDER IX Gig 'em

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    If Schaub isn't ready in time for week 1 I think they would sign a veteran QB to to be the backup, but I am just basing this off the roster we have right now.

    I think it will be between Lestar Jean and Dwight Jones for the 5th wide receiver spot. If Jones can keep his attitude and work ethic in check though he has all the physical skills to be a solid back-up option.

    I think Brandon Brooks can win the job in training camp, but I think he would also rotate with Caldwell if Kubiak doesn't feel strongly enough about him. He will be a solid contributor and might be the sole holder of that spot by the end of the season.
     
  20. Marcus

    Marcus Ruthless pragmatist

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    It all depends on the particular severity of the injury. I've also had a LisFranc fracture/dislocation. Had it back in July 2009. I've got 2 plates and 12 screws still in the foot, and it took a full 2 years for me to quit walking with a limp. Every lisfranc injury is different. Now, I'm not saying that Schaub's lisfranc injury was as severe as mine, but I have a very good idea the length of time it takes to recover from one of those things.

    And again, to reinterate a point that I've been trying to get across, it seems like forever, is that I'm not worried about "lack of mobility". I'm concerned, and will continue to be concerned, with Schaub's ability to accurately throw the ball. And in order to do that, he will have to "retrain" his "new" or "repaired" plant foot.

    Yes, I know that he and Kubiak and everyone else is saying that he will be ready to go when the season starts. But if you've been keeping anywhere up to speed with the way this organization handles injuries..... Let's just say I'm taking their statements with a grain of salt.

    I will say something else. They didn't do as I predicted and draft a QB, which I thought they would do if they had any concerns about it. But if Schaub isn't ready to go, that is one thing I will harp on.
     

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