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TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
QFT, but I'll play anyway.

First rounders have never sat. Oh, I'm sure someone will come up with an example, so whatever, but the trend has not been for first rounders to sit and develop. But teams used to have guys sitting that they'd develop behind the starter. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn't, but there used to be a higher percentage of QBs drafted in later rounds that sat and developed for a couple years. They'd get some mop-up time or maybe start a few games if the starter went down, and then later in their career, they'd turn into decent starters, sometimes very good. Even the guys that started early often saw limited spot duty in their rookie year.

Circumstances vary, but I can think of Steve Young, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Stan Humphries, Elvis Grbac, and Lynn Dickey. I'm sure if I looked far enough into it, I could come up with some more. A few of these guys were drafted really late, but some were drafted in the 3rd-ish rounds. Coaches worked with them in the hopes that they'd develop and some of them did. Now teams spend a ton on their starter and don't bother too much to develop a later round guy. It happens, but it's not as common as it used to be.

Maybe it wasn't exactly common back then, but as the game has increasingly put skirts on the QBs and the paychecks have risen at the position, teams put a much lower emphasis on ensuring there's a real viable option at backup. The Colts are the extreme example - hell, they had exactly no one behind Peyton Manning for years.
Steve Young was drafted in the 1st round by Tampa Bay. Aaron Rodgers was drafted in the 1st round. Warren Moon wasn't drafted at all. Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. Case Keenum wasn't drafted (I keed, I keed!!!). Joe Montana was drafted in the 3rd round.

There doesn't seem to be a tried and true method of drafting a QB. For every Peyton Manning out there, there are 3 Leif Garret's or Jamarcus Russell's. Some QB's learn under fire better than others, some need the time to sit and learn how to be a pro. Our very own David Carr could well be a prime example of that. Who knows what could've come of his career if he'd been allowed to watch a seasoned vet go out and get slobberknockered behind a horrible OL for a couple of years?

IMHO, I'd rather see a draft pick, regardless of draft position sit for at least a year and learn how to prepare like a pro. Just MHO.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Just to continue this exercise in futility.

Joe Flacco
Colin Kaepernick
Matt Ryan
Tom Brady
Matt Schaub
Russell Wilson
Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Andy Dalton
Andrew Luck
Christian Ponder
Robert Griffen III

Where were these guys drafted & when did they start (year 1, 2, 3, or 4)
 
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DocBar

Hall of Fame
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Just to continue this exercise in futility.

Joe Flacco
Colin Kaepernick
Matt Ryan
Tom Brady
Matt Schaub
Russell Wilson
Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Andy Dalton
Russell Wilson
Andrew Luck
Jake Locker

Where were these guys drafted & when did they start (year 1, 2, 3, or 4)
Kind of a silly way to play the game. The vast majority are young and drafted in the top 3 rounds of their drafts. Right where eventual starters are expected to be drafted.

The biggest surprise in those names is Wilson. Nobody expected Wilson to be the starter in Seattle last season.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Kind of a silly way to play the game.
Those are the 2012 Play off QBs, that's the only reason I picked them. I think Rogers is the only one who sat for more than 2 years. But I wasn't sure, which is another reason I posed the question.
 

DocBar

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Those are the 2012 Play off QBs, that's the only reason I picked them. I think Rogers is the only one who sat for more than 2 years. But I wasn't sure, which is another reason I posed the question.
3 out of the bunch were rookies. How does that play out? Has to be fairly high, depending on games started as a rookie.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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3 out of the bunch were rookies. How does that play out? Has to be fairly high, depending on games started as a rookie.
You're right...... somehow I missed RG3

I also screwed up & had Locker in there instead of Ponder & I counted Russell Wilson twice.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
This just proves what I thought all along, "in a tie, the tiebreaker went to the incumbent". T.J. didn't really outright win the #2 spot and Case never lost it either.

I always felt the spot should've went to Case from the get go though, because if a third year player who's been playing in the same system for 7 years is already being pushed by a 2nd year UDFA who's learning the new system, go with the guy who's making exponential improvement.
 

Rey

Guest
This just proves what I thought all along, "in a tie, the tiebreaker went to the incumbent". T.J. didn't really outright win the #2 spot and Case never lost it either.

I always felt the spot should've went to Case from the get go though, because if a third year player who's been playing in the same system for 7 years is already being pushed by a 2nd year UDFA who's learning the new system, go with the guy who's making exponential improvement.
I kind of felt the same way about the outcome, but I didn't have a problem with Yates being 2. Really there was no need to keep a young third qb if they didn't like him...so I figured he'd get a shot at some point.
 

Rey

Guest
Why bring back these old ass posts?

"I see dumb people" ...
Everyone is wrong or misinformed about something at some point(s).

I like these old threads because it's like a time capsule. They are interesting to read through and see what people thought at the time.
 
I always thought the only reason Yates was the #2 over Keenum was because Yates was further along in the playbook being he has ran this system in college and 2 1/2 years with Kubiak. Keenum has only been in this system for a year and a half where Yates has been in this system for like 5 years now.

I never thought it had to do with talent, just knowledge of the playbook
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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I always felt the spot should've went to Case from the get go though, because if a third year player who's been playing in the same system for 7 years is already being pushed by a 2nd year UDFA who's learning the new system, go with the guy who's making exponential improvement.
I always thought Kubiak was putting together his Super Bowl or bust plan. We were going to have three QBs on this roster, just in case. Tj was going to get the #2 spot regardless, because Kubiak doesn't want to go into the play offs a third year in a row with a QB playing his first ever play off game.

But dropping 4 in a row, he doesn't have the luxury to think about that right now. He's still holding on to Schaub getting healthy & making a come back:

“Matt’s got a ways to go,” Kubiak said. “We’ve got an extra week to get him healthy and hopefully we can get him good and healthy and coming back here in a few weeks.”

If this team looks like the team we thought they were come Sunday, we're going to find out whether we're right or wrong about Gary Kubiak. There's a good chance he'll think the team will play the same way if he sticks Schaub back in there.
 

2012Champs

Hall of Fame
I always thought the only reason Yates was the #2 over Keenum was because Yates was further along in the playbook being he has ran this system in college and 2 1/2 years with Kubiak. Keenum has only been in this system for a year and a half where Yates has been in this system for like 5 years now.

I never thought it had to do with talent, just knowledge of the playbook


I think Yates was still ahead(Clearly he went in for Matt) but throwing two ints Gary just said f it put Case in there the worst thing he can do is throw picks
 

Lord Bills

Destruction
This just proves what I thought all along, "in a tie, the tiebreaker went to the incumbent". T.J. didn't really outright win the #2 spot and Case never lost it either.

I always felt the spot should've went to Case from the get go though, because if a third year player who's been playing in the same system for 7 years is already being pushed by a 2nd year UDFA who's learning the new system, go with the guy who's making exponential improvement.
i absolutely agree. Keenum moved the offense a lot smoother than Yates did.

That alone should have told them that Keenum's upside is much greater than yates. Looking back on it, we should have traded Yates right before the season started. We could have pried away a draft pick from another team desperate for competent QB play. Not anymore. I dont think we can get any picks for yates or schaub.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
Even diehard Coog fans are split on Keenum's NFL impact. There will be no local groundswell to replace Schaub as the starter. Unless Schaub is playing very poorly. This is not analogous to VY coming out of UT.
I did say "Unless...". I think Keenum's preseason performance also has to factor in the current support. He looked like a NFL QB. I think that changed a lot of opinions on Case.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I did say "Unless...". I think Keenum's preseason performance also has to factor in the current support. He looked like a NFL QB. I think that changed a lot of opinions on Case.
I saw some things from Keenum during the preseason that .... after watching again , I have serious concerns about going into KC.
Mainly throwing deep out routes and the zip on the ball being just a bit lacking - granted on those two or three throws in question he was either moving or had significant pressure in his face and unable to step into the throws.

If KC is able to pressure him on those routes ... the results could look a lot like that noodle armed statue we at one time called a QB.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I saw some things from Keenum during the preseason that .... after watching again , I have serious concerns about going into KC.
Mainly throwing deep out routes and the zip on the ball being just a bit lacking - granted on those two or three throws in question he was either moving or had significant pressure in his face and unable to step into the throws.

If KC is able to pressure him on those routes ... the results could look a lot like that noodle armed statue we at one time called a QB.
I doubt that we see "noodle arm," as those 3 throws were against the sideline with the ball put exactly where the D couldn't get to them.........and where the receivers were hit in stride. Any more zip on the ball and the receivers would have been led out of bounds over the sideline. With Case's mobility, though, expect our OL and D not to be totally worn out to the point that they again demonstrate "noodle legs." :texflag:
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I saw some things from Keenum during the preseason that .... after watching again , I have serious concerns about going into KC.
Mainly throwing deep out routes and the zip on the ball being just a bit lacking - granted on those two or three throws in question he was either moving or had significant pressure in his face and unable to step into the throws.

If KC is able to pressure him on those routes ... the results could look a lot like that noodle armed statue we at one time called a QB.
Which is what I've been saying from my days at camp watching all 3 throwing side by side. When a qb can't pose a threat on certain routes,that's plays you can't run. A guy like case will be limited to hash mark throws and a few shot plays. That's not the worse thing,but it limits rt running and everything.
 

hradhak

Veteran
I saw some things from Keenum during the preseason that .... after watching again , I have serious concerns about going into KC.
Mainly throwing deep out routes and the zip on the ball being just a bit lacking - granted on those two or three throws in question he was either moving or had significant pressure in his face and unable to step into the throws.

If KC is able to pressure him on those routes ... the results could look a lot like that noodle armed statue we at one time called a QB.
I havent't seen all of Keenum's early stuff at UH, but his last season at UH he made some fairly amazing throws. His biggest strength I saw was that he put the ball in places that no one could get to other than his receiver.

Keenum has a lot to prove, but I think he has enough tools and versatility that he can be a good QB in the league. The real question will be how his decision making is when the spotlight is on him.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Which is what I've been saying from my days at camp watching all 3 throwing side by side. When a qb can't pose a threat on certain routes,that's plays you can't run. A guy like case will be limited to hash mark throws and a few shot plays. That's not the worse thing,but it limits rt running and everything.
If the Chiefs see it the same way you do, they will be stacking the box to take away the run...........I predict that short, weak-armed, inexperienced QB will burn the crap out of the D.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I havent't seen all of Keenum's early stuff at UH, but his last season at UH he made some fairly amazing throws. His biggest strength I saw was that he put the ball in places that no one could get to other than his receiver.

Keenum has a lot to prove, but I think he has enough tools and versatility that he can be a good QB in the league. The real question will be how his decision making is when the spotlight is on him.
When they come after him...
 
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