TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

[Rey]

Should be one of the more interesting competitions in camp. I think the fans will definitely be paying attention to this battle...

But I was listening to the 610 and John Lopez brought up an interesting point. He contends that there's 0 chance Keenum beats out Yates. He said that even if Keenum outplays Yates, you're not going to have the team come out and directly say Keenum is the #2.

His reasoning is that if that were to happen, you'd have an immediate QB controversy/a bunch of pressure on Schaub. Right now it's Yates vs Keenum...If Keenum is the back up....all of a sudden he's one spot away from starter. As the third string QB he doesn't pose any immediate threat to Schaub. There's no "circus" type atmosphere with die hard Coog fans or Keenum fans or just fans of local talent frothing at the mouth for Keenum to make that one last jump to the starting line-up. With how Schaub finished last year, if Keenum were his back up I do think it'd be a big fuss at Schaub's first mistake or bad game.

Anyways, this number 2 QB competition will be interesting to follow. Lots around here do believe that Case has the talent to at least be a back up.

One of the first things that jumps out is the voice. Case Keenum's booming voice is back. It fills up the indoor practice bubble in the first session of the Houston Texans' rookie mini camp, leaving little doubt who's huddle this is.

The former University of Houston legend is back in command, doing what he does best, grabbing the shot much of the NFL was reluctant to give him. He flings on-the-money out passes to the sideline with seemingly little effort. He hits rookie receiver DeAndre Hopkins deep. He even overthrows Hopkins a few times (so much for that "weak" arm). He gets the offense in and out of the huddle quickly, his barked out play calls impossible to miss.

Call it the evolution of a pro quarterback. Yes, a pro quarterback.

The doubts that Case Keenum - who treated all-time NCAA passing records like mere speed bumps at UH - can play at the NFL level have been more than a little ridiculous from the beginning. Art Briles, Kevin Sumlin and now Gary Kubiak have all shown belief in this once unheralded prospect from West Texas. Those are three coaches who've proven they know a little something about the quarterback position.

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/...ouston-star-to-challenge-tj-yates-for-qb-job/

 

[infantrycak]

I think it is ridiculous to think the Texans will pay any attention to the desires of Coog fans.

 

[Rey]

I think it is ridiculous to think the Texans will pay any attention to the desires of Coog fans.

I don't think they'll pay attention to it, but I do think they think about having a circus type atmosphere regarding their QB situation.

If they truly believe Schaub is their guy, I doubt they'll want any real competition breathing down his neck. But that's not a Texans thing...That's an NFL thing...

But based on Kubiaks comments a little while ago, they may indeed want heat to be put on Schaub.

 

[infantrycak]

I disagree that shuffling the order of backup QB's creates any "breathing down the neck" of any starting QB.

 

[Lucky]

Even diehard Coog fans are split on Keenum's NFL impact. There will be no local groundswell to replace Schaub as the starter. Unless Schaub is playing very poorly. This is not analogous to VY coming out of UT.

 

[Rey]

I disagree that shuffling the order of backup QB's creates any "breathing down the neck" of any starting QB.

Ok.

I won't argue with your opinion.

But I do believe that if Keenum wins the back up QB position there will be even more pressure on Schaub to perform and a good chunk of the fan base will become even less patient with Schaub because it'd mean Keenum would be next in line.


I think it's going to be an interesting dynamic throughout camp to see if Keenum is really given an opprotunity to overtake Yates. And if so, whether or not Yates can hold him off.

 

[Rey]

Even diehard Coog fans are split on Keenum's NFL impact.

A split coogs fan base in Houston is still a far greater support group/cheering section than that for TJ Yates.

Part of Keenum's popularity is based on the fact that he was a really good U of H QB.

 

[eriadoc]

I'd like to think that it will be an interesting battle, but I think it will play out like it did last preseason. We'll see Schaub a little more than we should and Yates will take the rest of whatever meaningful snaps are left. Keenum will take over in the 4th quarter of preseason games against 3rd stringers and guys fighting for a job. He won't receive the benefit of playing with quality players nor the necessary evaluation of playing against quality players.

 

[Rey]

I'd like to think that it will be an interesting battle, but I think it will play out like it did last preseason. We'll see Schaub a little more than we should and Yates will take the rest of whatever meaningful snaps are left. Keenum will take over in the 4th quarter of preseason games against 3rd stringers and guys fighting for a job. He won't receive the benefit of playing with quality players nor the necessary evaluation of playing against quality players.

I think he'll get a few more reps than he did last pre season depending on where McGee is slotted.

If McGee is ahead of him on the depth chart, then you have a Beck situation all over again. If Keenum is your third QB, then he's going to get those reps that Beck got last year...

 

[eriadoc]

I think he'll get a few more reps than he did last pre season ...

I hope you're right. I don't know what to make of Keenum yet, but I'd like to see the guy succeed or fail based on a decent opportunity.

 

[infantrycak]

I think he'll get a few more reps than he did last pre season depending on where McGee is slotted.

If McGee is ahead of him on the depth chart, then you have a Beck situation all over again. If Keenum is your third QB, then he's going to get those reps that Beck got last year...

I hope you're right. I don't know what to make of Keenum yet, but I'd like to see the guy succeed or fail based on a decent opportunity.

The decent opportunity comes in training camp and practice for the pre-season games. The games are only to see if the wheels fall off the bus from the impressions the coaches already have.

Anyway as to the reps Beck got v. Keenum.

Attempts in pre-season 2012

Schaub 29
Yates 32
Beck 16
Keenum 16

 

[Brisco_County]

His reasoning is that if that were to happen, you'd have an immediate QB controversy/a bunch of pressure on Schaub. Right now it's Yates vs Keenum...If Keenum is the back up....all of a sudden he's one spot away from starter.

...

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/...ouston-star-to-challenge-tj-yates-for-qb-job/

The article you linked provides this quote as well: "I think Case is fixing to be extremely competitive with T.J. and Matt," Texans coach Gary Kubiak says."

It is well established that Kubiak believes that competition improves all parties.

Kubiak also stated that he believes Keenum will be a starter in the NFL. He's not going to make that statement, then bury Keenum on the depth chart.

If Keenum does not win the #2 spot, it would be because Yates beats him. My opionion is that Yates will not be #2 in 2013.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I would hope that the Texans brass would not make a decision on the most “qualified” backup QB based on a concern over Schaub’s emotional lability or the fans’ bearing pressure, should Schaub falter. If the Texans view the potential performance of Schaub in the upcoming season with any semblance of rationality and preparedness, they will put the man showing the most ability to takeover the reins in the #2 spot............period. If a “circus” ensues, it will be because the Texans F.O. allows it, not because a promising #2 QB is making it up the ladder.



BTW, the article the OP linked is the same article that began the thread posted last week, Keenum......"Doubt him at your own risk".... http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100128

 

[painekiller]

If Keenum does not win the #2 spot, it would be because Yates beats him. My opionion is that Yates will not be #2 in 2013.

Wow!

And if TJ has a spring and summer like last season you maybe right.

And if this happens, I for one will be disappointed that we did not keep Klein as a guy to develop on the PS.

 

[PapaL]

Having a championship team doesn't put pressure on Schaub (after his playoff meltdown) but having Keenum as the backup would?

What is Kubiak suppose to say? "Oh yeah our QBs suck, they're not starting material."

 

[wolf123]

I disagree that shuffling the order of backup QB's creates any "breathing down the neck" of any starting QB.

Agree Completely!! If he beats out Yates then he needs to get the reps of the 2's. He needs the pressure every week that he's one play away from live action.

 

[Hervoyel]

The only thing that will put heat on Schaub will be losses and his own play (if the former comes in high numbers or the latter falls off even more). Nothing Yates or Keenum or anyone else does will create controversy. The Texans are very good about having their starter (who I am not particularly fond of) and their backups. yes they have a "second string" and a "third string" but I've always felt like the prevailing atmosphere here has been "Schaub's the guy and we're the support cast" and I don't think that's changed any.

I like Keenum and I like Yates fine too. I want the better player to be the first one of the bench and I don't care who that is as long as he's good enough. I'm not stupid enough to let my Cougar fan get in the way of my Texans fan. There's no need to get all Vince Young fan about this kind of thing.

 

[ObsiWan]

The only thing that will put heat on Schaub will be losses and his own play. Nothing Yates or Keenum or anyone else does will create controversy.

'Nuff said. This part of the discussion should actually end right here.
But...
if you have some other conspiracy theories on how Kubiak will let media's thoughts or fan whining somehow influence his QB depth chart, I'd like to direct your attention to the little device Agent K (the guy on the left) is holding in his hand. All will be clear in juuust a moment...

 

[leebigeztx]

I'm sorry,but Case is not an nfl caliber qb. He has a pop gun arm and is smallish.

 

[eriadoc]

I'm sorry,but Case is not an nfl caliber qb. He has a pop gun arm and is smallish.

He may or may not be an NFL caliber QB, but your first assertion is untrue and your second is immaterial, as many smallish QBs have done well in the NFL. It is this irrational perpetuation of BS that makes for great message board fodder though, so knock yourself out.

 

[ObsiWan]

I'm sorry,but Case is not an nfl caliber qb. He has a pop gun arm and is smallish.

That's right, because having "size" and a "big arm" is all it takes to be an NFL QB,

Signed, Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell

 

[Rey]

Looks like I need to throw McGee into the mix as well. Seems like he'll have a good chance at proving himself as well. I think Yates holds onto the number 2 job, but I think Yates and McGee make it a tough decision for kubiak.

 

[PapaL]

Looks like I need to throw McGee into the mix as well. Seems like he'll have a good chance at proving himself as well. I think Yates holds onto the number 2 job, but I think Yates and McGee make it a tough decision for kubiak.

If McGee beats out Keenum there's gonna be a lot of murder suicides on this board.

 

[House of Pain]

Looks like I need to throw McGee into the mix as well. Seems like he'll have a good chance at proving himself as well. I think Yates holds onto the number 2 job, but I think Yates and McGee make it a tough decision for kubiak.

Not as tough as you think. Did either of them ever play TE?

 

[DocBar]

If McGee beats out Keenum there's gonna be a lot of murder suicides on this board.

There's no way McGee beats out Case Montana...I mean Keenum. SACRILEDGE!!!!!

Seriously, I think Keenum has a chance to be the back up QB this year. Regardless, I hope the best QB wins the job.

 

[chenjy9]

It's kind of like to WR situation for me. I don't care which one of them develops as long as one of them does. We need to find our replacement QB as soon as possible.

 

[kingtexan]

I'm sorry,but Case is not an nfl caliber qb. He has a pop gun arm and is smallish.

Case is as big as Brees and can throw farther than Schaub, so not sure what you are saying.

 

[Rey]

Well...Looks like Case is going to get a real shot to make the roster...

He and Yates took the 1st team reps yesterday...

 

[76Texan]

Case Keenum 6-5/8" 209lbs
Russell Wilson 5'11"204lbs
Doug Flutie 5'10"180lbs

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75061&draftyear=2012&genpos=QB

"I had one scout tell me that he felt Keenum has "above average" arm strength."
Sam Khan, Jr. - Houston Chronicle

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2013/03/27/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2013
Casey Keenum, Houston 55
Russell Wilson, Wisconsin 55
Geno Smith, West Virginia 55
EJ Manuel, Florida State 54
Collin Klein, Kansas State 52
Cam Newton, Auburn 56
Jake Locker, Washington 54
TJ Yates, North Carolina 52
Christian Ponder, Florida St 51
Stephen McGee, Texas A & M 53
Joe Flacco, Delaware 55
Chad Henne, Michigan 53
Matt Flynn, LSU 50

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Case Keenum 6-5/8" 209lbs
Russell Wilson 5'11"204lbs
Doug Flutie 5'10"180lbs

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75061&draftyear=2012&genpos=QB

"I had one scout tell me that he felt Keenum has "above average" arm strength."
Sam Khan, Jr. - Houston Chronicle

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2013/03/27/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/



Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2013
Casey Keenum, Houston 55
Russell Wilson, Wisconsin 55
Geno Smith, West Virginia 55
EJ Manuel, Florida State 54
Collin Klein, Kansas State 52
Cam Newton, Auburn 56
Jake Locker, Washington 54
TJ Yates, North Carolina 52
Christian Ponder, Florida St 51
Stephen McGee, Texas A & M 53
Joe Flacco, Delaware 55
Chad Henne, Michigan 53
Matt Flynn, LSU 50

Rep coming your way. Anyone who watched Keenum in college would know that he has an arm. And I am certainly not a U of H person. But, having watched him often in college, I have a problem with those that now trash his arm strength. That's just an invalid statement, and that if you want to find criticism, you might look elsewhere.

 

[Victor B]

Rep coming your way. Anyone who watched Keenum in college would know that he has an arm. And I am certainly not a U of H person. But, having watched him often in college, I have a problem with those that now trash his arm strength. That's just an invalid statement, and that if you want to find criticism, you might look elsewhere.

Agreed. The "no arm" thing came from some talking heads who didn't know anything about him coming out of college and into the draft. UH offense is primarily based around screens but it doesn't mean he can't throw the long ball or throw with speed. Same thing for those who don't think he is mobile.

Go back and watch footage of him from his freshman year in 2007. When Art Briles was HC at UH Keenum was a runner. When Sumlin arrived he put a stop to that. Go Youtube UH vs Oregon 2007.

 

[Double Barrel]

Yikes, the off-season, where verbal battles occur over two mediocre backup QBs.

 

[Rey]

Case Keenum 6-5/8" 209lbs
Russell Wilson 5'11"204lbs
Doug Flutie 5'10"180lbs

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75061&draftyear=2012&genpos=QB

"I had one scout tell me that he felt Keenum has "above average" arm strength."
Sam Khan, Jr. - Houston Chronicle

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2013/03/27/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2013
Casey Keenum, Houston 55
Russell Wilson, Wisconsin 55
Geno Smith, West Virginia 55
EJ Manuel, Florida State 54
Collin Klein, Kansas State 52
Cam Newton, Auburn 56
Jake Locker, Washington 54
TJ Yates, North Carolina 52
Christian Ponder, Florida St 51
Stephen McGee, Texas A & M 53
Joe Flacco, Delaware 55
Chad Henne, Michigan 53
Matt Flynn, LSU 50

I've watched keenum throw a bunch of passes and the dude throws darts. Especially on those short passes.

 

[PapaL]

Yikes, the off-season, where verbal battles occur over two mediocre backup QBs.

But but but one guy was really good in college and the other guy won a playoff game as a rookie!

 

[jaayteetx]

How mobile is Keenum? I'm sick of seeing Schaub unable to make ANY kind of play once the called play breaks down

 

[kingtexan]

Yikes, the off-season, where verbal battles occur over two mediocre backup QBs.

Either of which possibly could prove to be better than the starter if given an entire season to prove it.

 

[PapaL]

Either of which possibly could prove to be better than the starter if given an entire season to prove it.

And both could just as easily prove to be worse too. Works both ways.

 

[kingtexan]

And both could just as easily prove to be worse too. Works both ways.

Absolutely.

We will never know unless they get game time, which hopefully we can avoid and keep our starter healthy, and he doesn't make too many mistakes and we improve this season. However, seeing as both of them have stronger arms and more mobility than Matt, I wouldn't panic if either of them had to take the reigns. Accuracy comes with making good decisions, which should improve with game experience. Typically folks who aren't accurate after years in the league are just making poor decisions and aren't mentally tough enough to win. If they couldn't throw the ball where it needed to be at some point in college, or camp/practice, then they wouldn't be NFL QB's. Hope this proves to be a great year for Schaub, but we have some decent back-ups if it doesn't.

 

[chenjy9]

Yikes, the off-season, where verbal battles occur over two mediocre backup QBs.

Due to complete lack of faith by most fans in our starting QB. If Schaub could carry the team worth a damn, we wouldn't even care about Yates or Keenum.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Due to complete lack of faith by most fans in our starting QB. If Schaub could carry the team worth a damn, we wouldn't even care about Yates or Keenum.

There's an old saying that the most popular man on any team is the 2nd string QB. That's because the fans often blame all the teams problems on the 1st string QB and think the 2nd stringer would be better.

 

[drs23]

There's an old saying that the most popular man on any team is the 2nd string QB. That's because the fans often blame all the teams problems on the 1st string QB and think the 2nd stringer would be better.

Right on Right on Right on. And it's always been that way.

 

[chenjy9]

There's an old saying that the most popular man on any team is the 2nd string QB. That's because the fans often blame all the teams problems on the 1st string QB and think the 2nd stringer would be better.

Considering how much he is payed and how he performs, I don't think it's unfair. It comes with the job. The QB is the general of the offense and Schaub is our highest paid player. AJ and Foster, while great offensive weapons, cannot throw the ball. Until Schaub shows he can carry the Texans consistently when needed, it will be in the Texans best interest to finding his replacement. Hopefully that is either Yates or Keenum so we wont have to look far.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

How mobile is Keenum? I'm sick of seeing Schaub unable to make ANY kind of play once the called play breaks down

Very!

 

[eriadoc]

There's an old saying that the most popular man on any team is the 2nd string QB. That's because the fans often blame all the teams problems on the 1st string QB and think the 2nd stringer would be better.

Except no one is saying Keenum will be better. After last preseason, no one is even saying Yates will be better. There are people who want to see what both of these guys can do in training camp and preseason. That's a far cry from saying they will be better. But we know what we have in Schaub. Preseason is the time to find out what we have in the other guys.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

Yikes, the off-season, where verbal battles occur over two mediocre backup QBs.

well, yeah, there really is not much to talk about, so I kinda give this a pass. the only thing i find funny is the people using some form of replacemnt or future starter when talking about either of them.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

When Yates' questionable performance last year comes up, Kubiak refers to him being injured last year. He appeared on the Injury Report first in week 9. His preseason performance was lackluster to say the least during which he was sacked 8 times in 3 games. He appeared in week 6 with a 2 of 5 40% completion rate, 1 interception and a QB rating of 15. Then while on the Injury List, he appeared in week 14 with a 2 of 4 50% completion rate for a 59.4 QBR. And he appeared last in week 16 with a 0 of 1 0% completion rate with taking a sack and earning a 39.6 QBR. Certainly, a small sample size, but nothing that you could explain away by injury alone. Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't exactly lead me to wanting to clamor to have his name called on Sundays as that supposedly "most popular man on the team."

 

[Double Barrel]

Due to complete lack of faith by most fans in our starting QB.

Sounds very subjective. How do you quantify "most fans"? Forums? Sports talk radio? That accounts for maybe 1% of our fanbase.

If Schaub could carry the team worth a damn, we wouldn't even care about Yates or Keenum.

Ahhh, the old "Texans went 22-10 over the last two seasons in spite of their starting QB and his 6500 passing yards" routine.

If you honestly believe that either Yates or Keenum could carry this team better than Schaub in 2013, the only thing I can say is that I am really glad you are a fan and not part of this coaching staff.

 

[thunderkyss]

Matt Flynn, LSU 50

That's why he gets so much love around here.... I couldn't figure it out. I'm not seeing special when I see the guy, but he's got to be the most hyped back-up since SageRosenfels.

 

[thunderkyss]

Absolutely.

We will never know unless they get game time, which hopefully we can avoid and keep our starter healthy, and he doesn't make too many mistakes and we improve this season. However, seeing as both of them have stronger arms and more mobility than Matt, I wouldn't panic if either of them had to take the reigns.

Accuracy comes with making good decisions, which should improve with game experience.

Hope this proves to be a great year for Schaub, but we have some decent back-ups if it doesn't.

I pretty much feel the same way. This is a QB friendly system & as long as Yates/Keenum can keep from being stupid.... we can win some games, we've got a lot of talent, for what we want to do.

I'm not dying to see either of them mind you, but I am intrigued.

 

[beerlover]

Don't see competition as Case vs Yates until something happens to Schaub. Kubiak did not insert TJ even when there were plenty opportunities. I really think Yates can play, in fact he gives Texans harder offense to game plan against. Case however maybe the future post Schaub.