This isnt gonna help anything.. but

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Grid, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. Grid

    Grid Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    4,299
    Likes Received:
    244
    This is only going to inflame the whole "Carr isnt the answer" arguement..

    There is a lot of talk about the so called "parity" in the league. But it is becoming more and more obvious that the parity doesnt really exist anymore. There are definatly the "haves" and the "have-nots".

    The interesting thing is that if you look at the haves, there is one thing that sticks out.. and that is the QB position.

    The playoff teams are:

    Patriots
    Bengals
    Steelers
    Colts
    Jaguars
    Broncos

    Giants
    Redskins
    Bears
    Panthers
    Buccaneers
    Seahawks

    These are the top 12 QBs

    #1 Peyton Manning
    #2 Carson Palmer
    #3 Big Ben
    #4 Matt Hasselback
    #5 Matt Schaub
    #6 Tom Brady
    #7 Jake Plummer
    #8 Trent Green
    #9 Drew Brees
    #10 Brad Johnson
    #11 Jake Delhomme
    #12 Mark Brunell

    notice that only 4 of the 12 arent in the playoffs. Schaub (falcons) Green (KC) Brees (SD) and Johnson (Vikes).

    Of those 4.. their teams are 10-6, 9-7, 9-7, and 8-8. (Schaub is the 8-8 but I dont think he really counts.. Vick is their QB).

    Anyway.. that means that 8 of the 12 teams in the playoffs have one of the best QBs in the league. Of the 4 teams that dont have a top QB, the Bears and Bucs have the top 2 defenses in the league.

    WHat you can safely say by looking at this.. is that the QB position is VERY important to being a playoff team. It is POSSIBLE to squeak into the playoffs without a top 10 QB.. but having a top 10 QB just about insures a playoff berth.


    They also talk about how the AFC is a better conferance than the NFC. And looking at the top QBs, 7 of the top 12... (8 of the top 10) are AFC QBs.


    This worries me. Specifically because we are apparently going for an offensive minded head coach. But we are keeping Carr as our QB. Now.. I like Carr.. I think he could become a solid NFL QB, but can he be a top 10 QB? If he cant.. that means that we need to depend on our defense to put us in contention.. and if we are going with an offensive minded coach, that means that our defense may not ever be on the same level as the Bears and Bucs.
     
  2. Honoring Earl 34

    Honoring Earl 34 Hey Koolaid

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    19,687
    Likes Received:
    1,320
    Location:
    Houston
    :redtowel: The funny thing is that only 3 of the 12 are first round picks .
     
  3. bubbajaxonbrown

    bubbajaxonbrown Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Slaton, TX
    I'm right with you Grid. I am not anti-Carr. I only feel we should evaluate him honestly and put aside blind loyalty. I'm a HUGE Coleman supporter but he's lost a step and I know it. Sometimes as a fan, you've got to face the hard questions and answer it honestly. In other sports with a rookies have a max contract of 3 years. This means they have 3 years to prove they are worth resigning and if so, resigning a larger contract. Carr has had 4 years now and we are still discussing him as if he is rookie. It's time to treat him like the 4 year veteran he is.

    I'm okay with giving him one more season with a better OL but if he doesn't produce, it's time to move on.
     
  4. MorKnolle

    MorKnolle Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    127
    I agree, but I think we need to give Carr at least two seasons before passing final judgement. I've seen flashes of greatness out of him, but bringing in a new coach, system, and new players might take a full year to start gelling as a group. By the end of next season we should hopefully be getting a good view of what our offense can do in the future, so I say give him that and then one more year to make a final judgement on whether or not to keep him as our main QB.
     
  5. Honoring Earl 34

    Honoring Earl 34 Hey Koolaid

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    19,687
    Likes Received:
    1,320
    Location:
    Houston
    :redtowel: So if Carr is the real deal and they hire a good coach , who brings in good assistants is 8-8 out of the question ?
     
  6. run-david-run

    run-david-run Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,370
    Likes Received:
    61
    Location:
    The University of Texas
    big ben, eli, carson, peyton. thats 4 right there....
     
  7. MorKnolle

    MorKnolle Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    127
    Not at all, I think we could see a turnaround similar to the Chargers in 2004 if the pieces fall in place properly.

    Another point on the QBs, you were ranking the QBs by their QB rating, not necessarily who is truly the best QBs, although that can indeed be hard to measure. I think more than showing that the playoff teams have the most talented quarterbacks, it shows that they have the most efficient QBs that run their offenses best, which is an indication of QBs abilities, their coaching, and the offensive system that they're running, not to mention the other offensive talent around them. It takes all of these factors coming together to produce a great offense and a good QB, and right now David Carr's abilities are probably the best of any of these categories and once we improve the others that his statistics will come along nicely.
     
  8. Honoring Earl 34

    Honoring Earl 34 Hey Koolaid

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    19,687
    Likes Received:
    1,320
    Location:
    Houston
    :bomb: I only counted 1 Manning .
     
  9. Honoring Earl 34

    Honoring Earl 34 Hey Koolaid

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    19,687
    Likes Received:
    1,320
    Location:
    Houston
    :redtowel: Now that Vermiel quit , who was their OL coach ?
     
  10. Master Po

    Master Po Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lubbock
    Mike Solari
     
  11. ArlingtonTexan

    ArlingtonTexan Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    6,159
    Likes Received:
    465
    Good look at a statistical situation. My guess is that over time you would find a similar type ratio between efficient QB play and success. I don't think past anyone mentioned in the original post there are more than a couple of QBs who played anything close to good.

    My general thought on Carr is not that he has earned the bonus money but that the state of current NFL QBing is pretty sorry and he is as good an option as anything out on the market.
     
  12. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Chitown Frog

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,421
    Likes Received:
    785
    Location:
    Chicago
    This goes straight to my theory that I posted last nigh that there have only been a couple of teams in the last few decades to play for a SB that didn't have a franchise QB or RB. Thus my vote for Bush. I think the Texans have neither.
     
  13. HJam72

    HJam72 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2004
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    653
    Location:
    Over here.
    Well, we don't exactly have the '95 cowboys O-line either. We don't even have the '05 49ers O-line. :cool:
     
  14. LBC_Justin

    LBC_Justin All Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    805
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Long Beach, Ca
    Exactly.

    You show be a QB having a great year and I will show you a great O-line.

    example.
    Green Bay loses their TWO top O-lineman and suddenly Farve isn't looking so hot.

    Stats are a funny thing. They are very easy to manipulate.

    other stats
    - The teams that make the playoffs usually have some of the top Defenses.
    - The teams that score the most points and keep the opponents from scoring very many points usually make it to the superbowl.

    The QB position is obviously the most important position on the field. He touches the ball every offensive play. The QB rating focuses on "not making mistakes", which is what winning teams are good at.
     
  15. feebleminded

    feebleminded .

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2005
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    35
    Just curious, but where did this top 12 QB's list come from? Is this a QB rating?

    I just find it funny to see a Matt Schaub (and yes I know lots of people think that he could be the real deal) a backup QB ranked higher than a Brady, Green etc.
     
  16. Grid

    Grid Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    4,299
    Likes Received:
    244
    I went to NFL.com and looked at quarterback statistics.

    I skipped QBs that had played less than 14 games.

    Yah its by QB rating.
     
  17. Wharton

    Wharton Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    36
    Personally, I think quarterbacks are more important as a manager of the game then an actual playmaker. Play football like a point guard plays basketball and make sure you get the ball to the person who can make the best play. The name that is comspicuously absent from that list is Michael Vick.

    The problem I have with DC is his decision making on the field. Its his fourth year and he still has trouble dumping the ball to avoid a sack.

    I just don't think he is a student of the game like most of the quarterbacks on this list.
     
  18. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk All Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    21
    I can't see giving Carr two more years, for heaven's sake. He's had four years, no matter how bad the coaching and the line and the rest. Four years! That's an ETERNITY in the NFL.

    I say we bring in a top quality vet capable of running the team and put the ball in their court, let Carr win the position or lose the position in legit competition.
     
  19. Snapple

    Snapple Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Orlando, FL via Houston, TX
    If you skipped QBs that played less than 14 games, why'd you include Schaub? He's just a backup, and has only started I think the one game against the Patriots this season.
     
  20. Grid

    Grid Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    4,299
    Likes Received:
    244
    hmm.. i dunno if its a typo.. but Schaub is listed as starting 16 games.

    but yah that HAS to be a typo cause he only has 60 attempts, and Mick Vick supposedy played 15 games himself.

    thanks for pointing that out.
     

Share This Page