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This is an 8-8 or worse Texan team

TexansSeminole said:
I'd be ok with us seeing what Yates or Keenum have to offer and going 8-8. If we don't make the playoffs, I don't care what our record is. Schaub is simply not going to take us anywhere.
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we used to call this kind of era as the "Commander Cody" era back in the day.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I guess you guys aren't watching the same team I am. This team is not good at all. We can stop the run and we can run the ball. That's all we got. It's not a knee jerk reaction because we are 10 quarters into the season.
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we lost 3 of the last 4 last season after starting the season looking like a no doubt SB champion. We have started slow this season which is good IMO. I would rather us hit our stride mid to the end of the season. This is not an 8-8 team.

Every season we see this team drop an egg and yesterday was just that. We will be fine, and as far as Harris goes i thought he did a damn good job yesterday, Newton on the other hand has struggled all season. When Brown comes back Harris needs to take Newtons spot cause that boy is getting beat every other play.
 
EllisUnit said:
we lost 3 of the last 4 last season after starting the season looking like a no doubt SB champion. We have started slow this season which is good IMO. I would rather us hit our stride mid to the end of the season. This is not an 8-8 team.

Every season we see this team drop an egg and yesterday was just that. We will be fine, and as far as Harris goes i thought he did a damn good job yesterday, Newton on the other hand has struggled all season. When Brown comes back Harris needs to take Newtons spot cause that boy is getting beat every other play.
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I don't understand the whole, "it's better that we start slow" nonsense. Sure, you'd like to get better over the course of the season, but the team doesn't need to play poorly in the beginning of the season for that to happen.

Harris was getting beat left and right yesterday. As many penalties as we had, we could have had more. Both tackles were holding on nearly every pass play.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't understand the whole, "it's better that we start slow" nonsense. Sure, you'd like to get better over the course of the season, but the team doesn't need to play poorly in the beginning of the season for that to happen.

Harris was getting beat left and right yesterday. As many penalties as we had, we could have had more. Both tackles were holding on nearly every pass play.
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And JJ watt gets held pretty much every play, my whole point is that as bad as we are playing right now, we are still (2-1) and we have beaten 2 pretty damn good teams. We layed a goose egg against the ravens, whoopty doo. If we are bad then Green Bay must be the appitimy of bad.
 
EllisUnit said:
And JJ watt gets held pretty much every play, my whole point is that as bad as we are playing right now, we are still (2-1) and we have beaten 2 pretty damn good teams. We layed a goose egg against the ravens, whoopty doo. If we are bad then Green Bay must be the appitimy of bad.
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Does that have anything to do with the play of our tackles? Does JJ Watt getting held determine how often our tackles hold, or does GB's poor defense reflect at all on our team?

I also think our first 3 games may be 3 of our easier games, obviously excluding the two Jacksonville games.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Does that have anything to do with the play of our tackles? Does JJ Watt getting held determine how often our tackles hold, or does GB's poor defense reflect at all on our team?

I also think our first 3 games may be 3 of our easier games, obviously excluding the two Jacksonville games.
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my point of it is, that holding takes place all the time, and if you watch 2 players closely of course you are going to see them holding a lot, just like if u watch JJ alot you will see them hold him all the time.

And our first 2 games we won looked easy to start BUT look at what those teams have been doing all season so far they are pretty stout.
 
EllisUnit said:
my point of it is, that holding takes place all the time, and if you watch 2 players closely of course you are going to see them holding a lot, just like if u watch JJ alot you will see them hold him all the time.

And our first 2 games we won looked easy to start BUT look at what those teams have been doing all season so far they are pretty stout.
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San Diego is 1-2, beat a 1-2 Philly team by three points. They lost to Tennessee on a hail mary type of throw.

Tennessee is 2-1, beat a poor 0-3 Pittsburg team in an ugly 16-9 game. They beat San Diego on a hail mary play, as I stated.

Baltimore is 2-1, beat a lowly 1-2 Cleveland team 14-6. They got annihilated by Denver.

I would hardly describe these teams as having "stout" years thus far.
 
TexansSeminole said:
San Diego is 1-2, beat a 1-2 Philly team by three points. They lost to Tennessee on a hail mary type of throw.

Tennessee is 2-1, beat a poor 0-3 Pittsburg team in an ugly 16-9 game. They beat San Diego on a hail mary play, as I stated.

Baltimore is 2-1, beat a lowly 1-2 Cleveland team 14-6. They got annihilated by Denver.

I would hardly describe these teams as having "stout" years thus far.
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So you say all hope is lost for this team, is that correct ?
 
EllisUnit said:
So you say all hope is lost for this team, is that correct ?
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We were talking about the teams we have played, remember? You described them as stout, I just posted their results from the season thus far. Any explanation on why those three teams are being described as stout by you?
 
Room to improve but our schedule doesn't seem to get any better. We have to pull it together after about 6-8 games and go on a streak or we are done. One this for sure, we can't go 3 for 12 on 3rd down conversions and be successful.

3rd down efficiency
3-12
 
steelbtexan said:
So yes, I'm for giving T.J. and Case a look this season and see if they can be the answer. If not then drafting a QB becomes priority #1. This will never happen due to the brilliant contract extention Rick with Gary's blessings gave Schaub.
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That brilliant extension does exactly that. Schaub can be culled at the end of the season & cost the Texans nothing in 2014 cap dollars.

However, understand that benching Schaub at any time during the season will reset the Kubiak clock. If you're willing to go 8-8 testing Tj & Keenum (I am) surely McNair is.
 
TexansSeminole said:
We were talking about the teams we have played, remember? You described them as stout, I just posted their results from the season thus far. Any explanation on why those three teams are being described as stout by you?
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you started the thread saying this is 8-8 or worse team remember.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't understand the whole, "it's better that we start slow" nonsense. Sure, you'd like to get better over the course of the season, but the team doesn't need to play poorly in the beginning of the season for that to happen.
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I believe the mature teams, with mature offenses should be able to start strong as the year begins & continue throughout the year getting better as they work in new players & new tweaks to their scheme.

We saw the mature Texans start strong last year, while everyone else was learning to gel. It fell apart at the end, just too many injuries.... Schaub, Sharpton never got right, Newton played hurt from week 13 I think, it wasn't just Sharpton but we had a carousel of ILBs going on there... had to sign guys off the street. Glover was playing hurt since Detroit I think.... it all just kept adding up & we never really found our groove.

This year I don't know what's going on. Andre, OD, Matt, Arian, Brown, Myers..... that should be enough offense to keep us in most games, but it "looks" anemic when you get down to the nutt cutting. DeAndre looks like a bright spot... & the only thing "really" hurting us are some bad decisions by the HC & the QB.
 
My main concern is that they ended last year on an inconsistent streak and thus far this year are very inconsistent. This is a veteran team that shouldnt have to get better as the year goes on, they should be validating the "superbowl or bust" mantra and instead they keep making the same mistakes over and over. I'm not jumping off a cliff yet, but I will hold my tongue when trying to argue the Texans as contenders until they show that they can play more consistently.
 
I would like to apologize for ridiculing this POV, even if only silently to myself. 8-8 looks like a real possibility now. All the good things they did in week one (aggressive playcalling) seems to have faded away, while all the bad things from week one (and two) seems to have carried through.

And well ... you know .... Schaub.
 
amazing80 said:
stupid thread and its even more stupid that you prefaced youre stupid thought with, this is not a knee jerk reaction :kubepalm:
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In my opinion it's pretty stupid not to see what's been going on with this team the first 3 weeks and assume they're fine. They will struggle to make the playoffs, and then the Bengals will be ready this time around.
 
The Texans are going to be gifted two wins by the Jags, and probably one more by the Titans. The Texans have a strong chance in any other game they are in.

The team sucks against elite talent. It did last year and the year before that. I think they can still win a Super Bowl, but the team is flawed.

The defense is JJ Watt, Brian Cushing, and a bunch of scrubs in the front seven. The corners are one of the best tandems in football, but there are no pass rushers.

The Texans are above average or good. What should concern us as fans should not be teams like the Broncos or Patriots, but the young teams like the Colts and Bengals, who are coming on very strong.
 
The1ApplePie said:
The Texans are going to be gifted two wins by the Jags, and probably one more by the Titans.
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Unfortunately if ANY team can anal spray a game away against the Jags it unfortunately IS the Texans so I don't count those as locks. Hope you're right and on paper yeah, should be money in the bank but you know what I'm saying.

I can't read the Titans now if they are bad or not.
 
thunderkyss said:
That brilliant extension does exactly that. Schaub can be culled at the end of the season & cost the Texans nothing in 2014 cap dollars.

However, understand that benching Schaub at any time during the season will reset the Kubiak clock. If you're willing to go 8-8 testing Tj & Keenum (I am) surely McNair is.
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Show me where it will cost zero cap $$$$ in 2014 to cut Schaub. I've seen people post this, but according to what I've read on Spotrac this doesn't appear to be the case.

Since Gary is HC of the Houston Texans for life. I'm OK with resetting the clock. Who says they wil go 8-8? T.J/Case could come in and play better than Schaub. It wouldn't take much.
 
mridge01 said:
In my opinion it's pretty stupid not to see what's been going on with this team the first 3 weeks and assume they're fine. They will struggle to make the playoffs, and then the Bengals will be ready this time around.
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If you saw what was going on the first 2 weeks & knew everything was not fine, why are you taking this loss so hard?

Should have known we were going to struggle. Should have known we weren't going to blow the Ravens out of the water. Should have known there was a good possibility we would lose this game.

I had no idea the Dolphins were going to beat the Falcons. Well, I think I heard Jones & White were questionable.... still don't know if they played. But that was the only chance I thought they had.

I had no idea the 49ers would get spanked at home.

I had no idea the Packers were going to lose to the Bengals..

I had no idea the Giants were going to get shut out.

I had no doubt the Patriots would beat the Bucs...... I caution those fans for getting overly excited.

I had no doubt New Orleans was going to trash the Cardinals.

I had no doubt the Seahawks were going to kill the Jags.

The only reason to be as upset today about what happened yesterday is if you thought the Texans were going to go to M&T & own the Ravens. Knowing that we aren't playing particularly well & that we've never beat the Ravens at M&T this is just another game. This is "what should have happened." This is a "don't panic.... it's just one loss"

Unless you ignored what was happening the first two weeks of the season.
 
thunderkyss said:
If you saw what was going on the first 2 weeks & knew everything was not fine, why are you taking this loss so hard?

Should have known we were going to struggle. Should have known we weren't going to blow the Ravens out of the water. Should have known there was a good possibility we would lose this game.

I had no idea the Dolphins were going to beat the Falcons. Well, I think I heard Jones & White were questionable.... still don't know if they played. But that was the only chance I thought they had.

I had no idea the 49ers would get spanked at home.

I had no idea the Packers were going to lose to the Bengals..

I had no idea the Giants were going to get shut out.

I had no doubt the Patriots would beat the Bucs...... I caution those fans for getting overly excited.

I had no doubt New Orleans was going to trash the Cardinals.

I had no doubt the Seahawks were going to kill the Jags.

The only reason to be as upset today about what happened yesterday is if you thought the Texans were going to go to M&T & own the Ravens. Knowing that we aren't playing particularly well & that we've never beat the Ravens at M&T this is just another game. This is "what should have happened." This is a "don't panic.... it's just one loss"

Unless you ignored what was happening the first two weeks of the season.
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Welcome to "Overreaction September"!!!

Well said- no one knows from one week to another what will happen until each team establishes an identity which takes 3-4-5 weeks...
 
steelbtexan said:
Show me where it will cost zero cap $$$$ in 2014 to cut Schaub. I've seen people post this, but according to what I've read on Spotrac this doesn't appear to be the case.
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Sport trac is linking this page there's no dead money, no cap hit for cutting Matt before the 2014 season. Rick Smith & whatever his name is did a great job on Schaub's contract when you consider Sanchez is getting paid as much to watch Geno Smith from his living room. Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, & Joe Flacco are $100M dollar men.

steelbtexan said:
Since Gary is HC of the Houston Texans for life. I'm OK with resetting the clock. Who says they wil go 8-8? T.J/Case could come in and play better than Schaub. It wouldn't take much.
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I said worse case scenario. I'm sure those guys will look great when everything is working. But how are they going to react to being a starting QB in the NFL. It's not as easy as Matt makes it look.

I want nothing more than for us to find a QB that can win us a Super Bowl. I don't care if his name is Matt, Taylor, or Case..... I'd be fine moving on from Matt Schaub, but I don't think that's where we're at right now.
 
thunderkyss said:
Sport trac is linking this page there's no dead money, no cap hit for cutting Matt before the 2014 season. Rick Smith & whatever his name is did a great job on Schaub's contract when you consider Sanchez is getting paid as much to watch Geno Smith from his living room. Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, & Joe Flacco are $100M dollar men.



I said worse case scenario. I'm sure those guys will look great when everything is working. But how are they going to react to being a starting QB in the NFL. It's not as easy as Matt makes it look.

I want nothing more than for us to find a QB that can win us a Super Bowl. I don't care if his name is Matt, Taylor, or Case..... I'd be fine moving on from Matt Schaub, but I don't think that's where we're at right now.
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This http://www.overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2013 says there is 21M in dead money on Shaub right now and 10.5 cap hit to cut him....

Next year http://www.overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2014 its a 4M savings

If I read this correctly- I could be confused though...
 
thunderkyss said:
Sport trac is linking this page there's no dead money, no cap hit for cutting Matt before the 2014 season.
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Texans would "save" $4 million versus the cap if they cut Schaub next offseason. But, they would still be on the hook for $10.5 million in bonus allocation, or dead money.

If Schaub on 2014 roster - $10 million salary + $1 million game bonuses + $3.5 million signing bonus allocation = $14.5 million cap hit

If Schaub is not on 2014 roster - Remaining signing bonus allocation (3 years x $3.5 million) = $10.5 million

Net Cap Savings by cutting Schaub after 2013 season = $14.5 million - $10.5 million = $4 million
 
Lucky said:
Texans would "save" $4 million versus the cap if they cut Schaub next offseason. But, they would still be on the hook for $10.5 million in bonus allocation, or dead money.

If Schaub on 2014 roster - $10 million salary + $1 million game bonuses + $3.5 million signing bonus allocation = $14.5 million cap hit

If Schaub is not on 2014 roster - Remaining signing bonus allocation (3 years x $3.5 million) = $10.5 million

Net Cap Savings by cutting Schaub after 2013 season = $14.5 million - $10.5 million = $4 million
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Now we're talking! Good info. I hope we can get a new qb at least it is just too important and crucial to winning a super bowl. Patriots had all the injuries and drama but are still 3-0. Bill and Brady is the foundation and its strong. Our foundation is kubiak and schaub that's pretty weak.
 
Lucky said:
Texans would "save" $4 million versus the cap if they cut Schaub next offseason. But, they would still be on the hook for $10.5 million in bonus allocation, or dead money.

If Schaub on 2014 roster - $10 million salary + $1 million game bonuses + $3.5 million signing bonus allocation = $14.5 million cap hit

If Schaub is not on 2014 roster - Remaining signing bonus allocation (3 years x $3.5 million) = $10.5 million

Net Cap Savings by cutting Schaub after 2013 season = $14.5 million - $10.5 million = $4 million
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Thanks. I knew I was looking at something wrong.
 
Lucky said:
Texans would "save" $4 million versus the cap if they cut Schaub next offseason. But, they would still be on the hook for $10.5 million in bonus allocation, or dead money.

If Schaub on 2014 roster - $10 million salary + $1 million game bonuses + $3.5 million signing bonus allocation = $14.5 million cap hit

If Schaub is not on 2014 roster - Remaining signing bonus allocation (3 years x $3.5 million) = $10.5 million

Net Cap Savings by cutting Schaub after 2013 season = $14.5 million - $10.5 million = $4 million
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Then we need to trade him to a team that will take the hit?

Is that a possibility?

Trade him for anything ... a practice squad player ... a 7th ... anything.

Otherwise let him go and take the hit and move on. He is not a leader, he is not a good QB, even his former team-mates say he "sulks" when things don't go right. Time to cut the waste and move on.

To address the OP point, I will be happy with 8-8 if Schaub remains the starter based on how we've performed.
 
kingtexan said:
Otherwise let him go and take the hit and move on. He is not a leader, he is not a good QB, even his former team-mates say he "sulks" when things don't go right. Time to cut the waste and move on.
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this might be 3 or 4 years too late.. weve wasted so much time waiting for something from ths guy thats not there.. now were pretty much in too deep. unless we bring in a vet, bringing in a rookie next year admits were starting over and just basically wasted dres prime years.. we wont be an elite, feared team until we have an elite qb..

thunderkyss said:
Hopefully it'll be embarassing like last year's Bears game & we still get the W.
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how was that one embarassing?? it was a hard fought defensive struggle. that SF game might get embarassing like the packers game on national tv. this team has a a history of looking completely unprepared just as the hype train is rolling at full speed.. every year it happens..
 
mridge01 said:
In my opinion it's pretty stupid not to see what's been going on with this team the first 3 weeks and assume they're fine. They will struggle to make the playoffs, and then the Bengals will be ready this time around.
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I agree and I have my own laundry list of problems, but to say were a sub 500 team, stupid.
 
Premier said:
this might be 3 or 4 years too late.. weve wasted so much time waiting for something from ths guy thats not there.. now were pretty much in too deep. unless we bring in a vet, bringing in a rookie next year admits were starting over and just basically wasted dres prime years.. we wont be an elite, feared team until we have an elite qb..
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Cant say that anymore with what has happened in recent history with rookie QB's just walking in and succeeding. I want to see what Keenum and Hopkins can do. We have already wasted Dre's best years, lets give him a chance to get a ring off of talent and hunger of others. Nothing against Yates, I just see the fire in Cases's eyes ... he wants it real bad every snap. No plays off like ...
 
TexansSeminole said:
This is not a knee-jerk reaction.

Our RT is terrible and we have no replacement for him. When Duane Brown doesn't play, our LT is terrible. Our QB is below average and has no natural ability to make something out of nothing, which is required with poor tackle play. Our pass defense is going to get exposed by good passing teams.

We'll be lucky if we go .500. We are extremely lucky to be 2-0 and not 0-2 given the way we've played thus far. There is no indication that this team will be getting better as the season progresses, actually quite the contrary as injuries happen.
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No bro, this is a complete knee-jerk reaction!

Like Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are. The Texans are an ugly 2-1. When the Texans reach the playoffs, no one will remember that the first 3 games they looked like shyte. They'll just remember being 2-1 after the first 3 weeks. AND 3-1 after the Seahawks game! ;)
 
Texan_Bill said:
No bro, this is a complete knee-jerk reaction!

Like Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are. The Texans are an ugly 2-1. When the Texans reach the playoffs, no one will remember that the first 3 games they looked like shyte. They'll just remember being 2-1 after the first 3 weeks. AND 3-1 after the Seahawks game! ;)
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Have to love that positive attitude! Of course we all know you're drunk, but gotta love it! :texanbill:
 
handswarmer said:
This http://www.overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2013 says there is 21M in dead money on Shaub right now and 10.5 cap hit to cut him....

Next year http://www.overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2014 its a 4M savings

If I read this correctly- I could be confused though...
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I run the OTC site and you are correct with the way you interpret it, which I think Lucky pointed out below as well. We maintain dead money estimates for every player and every year so that is why there is a discrepancy between our figures and Spotracs.

If the Texans were to release Schaub (and I dont think they would unless the team completely fell apart, because who would you replace him with) next year they could consider designating him a June 1 cut. What would happen is the Texans would carry his full cap hit until June 1. At that point his cap number would fall from $14 million to just $3.5 million with the $7 million balance being accounted for in 2015.

If the Texans were serious about wanting to move him they should see if a team like the Bucs or Browns would be interested in trading a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.
 
Lucky said:
No, the Texans take the cap hit whether Schaub is cut or traded. There is no "Get out of cap hit free" card.
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If the Texans trade Schaub today, the remaining signing bonus money that is still on the book will remain; however, his base salary of $7.25M will be prorated.

Schaub only earns 3/16th of that amount.
The Texans can choose to go with just two QBs and save all that money (some $6M this year.

They can use that money on a veteran QB or at any other position.
 
tailgate said:
lol. I was worried that today was going to unfold this way. Hardly anyone was giving baltimore any respect around here for the ravens front 7, and the duane brown injury was the worst timing with this stretch coming up. Now its knee jerk meltdown mode for the next month.
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please can we wait 2 more weeks before you put a rip on my texans. I honestly believe they will be in the playoffs. I am not jumping off of the bridge yet.
 
jasonotc said:
I run the OTC site and you are correct with the way you interpret it, which I think Lucky pointed out below as well. We maintain dead money estimates for every player and every year so that is why there is a discrepancy between our figures and Spotracs.

If the Texans were to release Schaub (and I dont think they would unless the team completely fell apart, because who would you replace him with) next year they could consider designating him a June 1 cut. What would happen is the Texans would carry his full cap hit until June 1. At that point his cap number would fall from $14 million to just $3.5 million with the $7 million balance being accounted for in 2015.

If the Texans were serious about wanting to move him they should see if a team like the Bucs or Browns would be interested in trading a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.
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Being as the Texans traded a 2nd for him to Atlanta and he has less tread on the tire, I couldn't see more than a 4th for him. Maybe the Bucs throw in Josh Freeman- Schiano is not a fan of his...
 
handswarmer said:
Being as the Texans traded a 2nd for him to Atlanta and he has less tread on the tire, I couldn't see more than a 4th for him. Maybe the Bucs throw in Josh Freeman- Schiano is not a fan of his...
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The Texans actually traded two 2nd rounders for Schaub. Does that mean we get two 4th rounders?
 
busterspencer said:
please can we wait 2 more weeks before you put a rip on my texans. I honestly believe they will be in the playoffs. I am not jumping off of the bridge yet.
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I actually have us losing next 2, before fighting our way back into a heated playoff race w late season games vs Pats, Broncos, and Titans being pivitol.

Its gonna be a dog fight.
 
Tailgate said:
I actually have us losing next 2, before fighting our way back into a heated playoff race w late season games vs Pats, Broncos, and Titans being pivitol.

Its gonna be a dog fight.
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Don't agree. We lose the next two and the fan uproar will be cataclysmic. McNair knows about positive public perception and will quietly force some change.
 
It was week 3. First half of week 4 looks different, second half of week 4 might look like week 3 or it might look like week 5 of last season. No matter what happens in weeks prior to about 12 it doesn't mean much.

That is all.

Mike
 
The defense played a fantastic football game and the offense completely gives the game away. We had the Seahawks flustered and playing poorly, yet we still cannot win against a good team.

I like Kubiak and his offensive system, but if he doesn't bench Schaub at this point, he is digging his own grave.
 
TexansSeminole said:
The defense played a fantastic football game and the offense completely gives the game away. We had the Seahawks flustered and playing poorly, yet we still cannot win against a good team.

I like Kubiak and his offensive system, but if he doesn't bench Schaub at this point, he is digging his own grave.
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Didn't agree with you before, but now I do, and with the bolded and what's after it too.
 
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