The Texans' defense as a 4-3

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by TexanFanInCC, Nov 15, 2005.

  1. TexanFanInCC

    TexanFanInCC Hall of Fame

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    this is what i would like to see when capers is fired....and dont lie to yourselves people. its inevitable.

    LE - Robaire Smith
    LDT - Seth Payne
    RDT - Travis Johnson
    RE - Antwan Peek
    LOLB - Jason Babin
    MLB - Kailee Wong
    ROLB - Morlon Greenwood
    CB - Dunta Robinson
    CB - anyone but pukehanon
    SS - Glenn Earl
    FS - anyone but coldman

    thoughts??

    i personally dont think we have a personnel problem, and i dont want to see casserly, or whoever is our GM, do a complete overhaul. we need a system change. the offense on the other hand needs the overhaul...and to briefy touch on that, the only ones that need to stay are carr, norris, davis, johnson, pitts, mathis, and j. wells. everyone else is expendable.
     
  2. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    Robaire Smith isn't a 4-3 DE...he has zero pass rushing skill. Peek is better suited for situational pass rusher and isn't the weak side edge rusher we need to man that spot long term. Walker is the best or second best defender on our team...and you don't list him. I don't think Wong is instinctive enough to be a middle linebacker in a 4-3.
     
  3. Double Barrel

    Double Barrel Modified Simian

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    Peek and Smith as 4-3 ends?! No way, as Vinny mentioned, they don't have the skills to put consitent pressure on the pocket or stop the run. The four linemen in a 4-3 have to be solid and disruptive, and there are certain skills required.

    Many teams use a 3-4 today because of the lack of depth of defensive linemen in the NFL.

    And where's Walker?! :confused:
     
  4. HardKnockTexan

    HardKnockTexan All Pro

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    I think Peek would be fine at defensive end if he adds some weight and strength. He's fast enough to get around the edge but from what i've seen he lacks a bullrush which in run defense is VERY important.
     
  5. A switch to a 4-3 would only be as good as the coordinator that runs it. If we were to switch to a 4-3 then I agree with Vinny, Wong is not a MLB. He did his best when he was on the ends. I thought he played really well last year when he was in the ROLB spot, but I feel that when we had Glenn, Wong and Walker it was one of the better units in football.

    I'd see it as this:

    Babin
    Walker
    Payne/Smith
    Johnson

    LB:
    Wong
    Greenwood
    Orr/Anderson
     
  6. Texas

    Texas Hall of Fame

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    I agree. Do you think polk would fit in the mix anywhere?
     
  7. rmartin65

    rmartin65 I'm Score

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    I have no problem with CC Brown at SS.
     
  8. keyfro

    keyfro Hall of Fame

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    my question is does anyone really think that either babin or peek can make the transition to a 4-3 DE...granted they both played the position in college but they both would need to add weight...something peek has had trouble with the entire time he's been here...and what would you do with our DT situation then...you have walker, johnson, smith, and payne...two of which just recently signed multi-year and multi-million dollar contracts...not to mention a first round pick from last year...switching to a 4-3 defense is coming but if you ask me we almost have to cut or trade walker at the end of the season and pick up a 4-3 DE in FA or trade for one...dwayne white from tampa bay doesn't start but has enough talent to be a regular starter on a lot of other teams...might we trade walker for him with tampa...or do we hope that a lot of our converted tweeners can add the weight and become regular DE's
     


  9. ccdude730

    ccdude730 Hall of Fame

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    i think he has been making too many mistakes in the passing game to keep him as a fulltime starter
     
  10. Texans Horror

    Texans Horror Hall of Fame

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    Where is Walker? That's funny...oh, wait. You weren't telling a joke...
     
  11. TheOgre

    TheOgre Hall of Fame

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    If we switch to the 4-3 next year, I think we will have a couple of guys playing somewhat out of position for a year.
    So how will we look?
    LDE - We will need to find someone, but we could probably get by with Walker or TJ for a season. Robaire Smith is way too big to play DE.
    LDT/RDT - This is one area that shouldn't be a concern going into next season. We ostensibly have 4 of them in Smith, Walker, TJ, and Payne.
    RDE - Long-term we need to find someone that is a pass-rusher to play this position. Babin or Peek might have to play it some in 2006, but they are undersized.

    LLB/MLB - Wong will either be our LLB or MLB. He played MLB for Minnesota, but he wasn't "all that" there. Whichever position he doesn't play, we need to address in the offseason.
    RLB - Greenwood - he played this position for Miami and he was solid, if not spectacular, there.

    I'm not addressing the secondary because the issues are there regardless of whether we go with a 3-4 or 4-3.
     
  12. Cincinnatikid

    Cincinnatikid Veteran

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    I hate to tell you but if you go back and look at the film, peek had quite a few plays where he pancaked his blocker. He did it to both Dallas Clark and the LT. Also if he has a decent linemen working next to him to take up some blockers he can do fine. Robert Mathis of the colts leads the NFL in sacks and weight 235. He can do this because the DTs take up the center, both guards and usually they can even work on one of the OTs. The problem is that the texans rarely have the DEs taking up any of the OTs protection so the OLBs cant get into the backfield too often. If you have a DT/DE that can hold up the OT for a split second that allows the DE or OLB to get outside and around. The colts have undersized DE, just like Dungy had in Tampa Bay, and his defenses have been very good (the colts finally this season). The key to having a good pass rush is a good interior Dline. If you have good play inside that will open up the outside rush. Peek and Babin are both strong enough to play OLB or DE as long as they have good players next to them.
     
  13. Which is why it's perplexing to me why we went after TJ. He's not the kind of guy that demands double teams and is not generally great at the point of attack which usually translates to strength. We need very strong guys that can bench press my house.
     
  14. ArlingtonTexan

    ArlingtonTexan Moderator Staff Member

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    While the team has not made good choices, the personnel that it has accumulated is geared to 3-4. There will be an overhaul on the defense if we go a majority 4-3 team.
     
  15. MorKnolle

    MorKnolle Hall of Fame

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    Peek and Babin could both play DE but both, especially Peek, would need to add a little weight/strength to play there full-time. Peek is a better pass-rusher but Babin is also useless in coverage, although he does tackle reasonably well when he is in position to do so. Babin should either be a DE or MLB in a 4-3, and a ILB in a 3-4. Peek should be OLB or DE in a 4-3, and OLB in a 3-4. Greenwood and Wong would both probably be better at OLB. Either way I'd like to see us draft a pass-rushing specialist, either a OLB if we are running a 3-4 or a DE if we are running a 4-3. Walker, Payne, and Robaire are all good 3-4 DE/DT or 4-3 DT, and TJ is getting there, but none of them are 4-3 DE. As for secondary, Dunta is obviously the man and I'd like to see us get a CB that has Buchanon's speed but will actually stay on a guy rather than backing so far off. Brown, Simmons, and Earl are all functional safeties, they are all somewhat fast and relatively good tacklers, but none are very good in coverage. We either need to draft a big-time hitting SS type like Roy Williams and move C.C. Brown to FS or else draft a fast, ball-hawking FS like Ed Reed and leave Brown at SS. That's my take on the defense, but a lot of it depends on our DC and system next year.
     
  16. TheOgre

    TheOgre Hall of Fame

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    I think if Casserly comes back somehow, he will push for a coach that prefers the 4-3. Why? Because he will probably tell McNair that his lack of knowledge of the 3-4 (and reliance on Capers) led to some personnel mistakes on that side of the ball.
     
  17. powda

    powda Hall of Fame

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    de babin
    dt payne
    dt smith
    de johnson

    wlb greenwood
    mlb anderson
    slb peek

    cb d-rob
    cb fa/2nd or 3rd rd pick
    nb p-burnt
    db faggins

    ss brown
    fs earl


    anderson shows good range and has played regularly in the nickle package. babin goes to suited position with weight gain. johnson is more athletic then payne or smith and plays strong side de till 07 when he replaces payne. peek gets shot at de in training camp but loses out to babin. have to get a #2 cb. d-rob gets moved anywhere on the field to cover opposing teams #1 wr. earl regains some of the quicks he lost from his injury ,and brown has a good skill set but makes to mental errors and takes bad angles...both can be corrected.

    greenwood-anderson-peek are the fastest combination of lb's we can put on the field. polk serves as quality reserve.

    new regime team cuts offense and defense:

    coleman, walker, wong, mckinney, weigert, bradford.

    mckinney may be keeper because of his versatility but only if he takes serious paycut. wong is comming off major injury--has serious contract ,and he dosent have a skill set i want in a new 4-3. weigert is far from domminant and rarely on the field...plus hes overpayed. when he refuses to restructure his contract he's cut (allowed to seek trade).

    we only have 2-3 minor fa signings while we bite the bullet for the contract cuts this year.

    we trade out of the #1 pick 3-5 spots back for additional picks. we will be a 4-3 defense with holes to fill.

    wade plays rg next year while pitts moves to rt (rookie lt)

    random thoughts...sorry.
     
  18. College Texan

    College Texan Veteran

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    What is the matter with the size of Peak and Babin?
    Have ya seen the Colts D-line?
    there are two 4-3 formations I think will work........

    ---------------C.C. Brown---------------------G.Earl-----------------


    D-Rob----------------------------------------------------------FA/Faggins


    --------------------Wong---------Polk/Orr-----------Peak----------


    ---------------TJ-------Payne------Walker----------Robair-------

    This would be my 1st and 2nd down package (above)

    --------------C.C. Brown--------------------Earl------------


    D-Rob-----------------Wong-----Polk/Orr----Greenwood------------FA/Faggins


    --------------Peak------Robaire----------TJ-------Babin-------

    This is my 3rd down passing situation package (above)

    Have ya seen TJ highlights in College, let him loose and he'll get in the backfield. Also, I think it would make a difference to put our ends in a
    3 point stance.
     
  19. College Texan

    College Texan Veteran

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    In the draft we pick up B.Carpenter and Huff, to take over the WLB spot and a safety or corner spot. I would personally like to see Huff play corner. We would have two hard hitting corners to strike fear in the hearts of the Colts wide-outs.
     
  20. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    Payne and Smith are the truest DT's on the team. Why do people keep wanting to put them at DE in a 4-3? Walker especially, and maybe TJ have the skill set to be good LDE's. Smith at 4-3 DE just isn't happening.
     

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