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Texans Oline Rank #6

Brando

Brando

Hall of Fame
6. Houston Texans: Despite putting Baltimore and Miami in the top five (mostly because of personnel and not necessarily execution), I can’t harp on this enough: The most important objective in the NFL today is to keep the quarterback clean. Houston ranked eighth in the league last season despite the fact that the running game was mediocre and quarterback Matt Schaub’s(notes) mobility was limited because of an ankle injury. There’s not a household name in the bunch and offensive tackles Duane Brown(notes) and Eric Winston(notes) are both limited physically. Still, they don’t let people touch Schaub and the running game could really improve with better running back play.
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:thinking:


Yahoo
 
Its amazing how a smart qb, who can make good decisions, makes an offensive line look good. Anybody care to wager that this very same offensive line would be called one of the worse if WHNSNBM was still under center? Until we get a better push on obvious running plays, I ain't drinking the koolaid.
 
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jaayteetx said:
Its amazing how a smart qb, who can make good decisions, makes an offensive line look good. Anybody care to wager that this very same offensive line would be called on of the worse if WHNSNBM was still under center? Until we get a better push on obvious running plays, I ain't drinking the koolaid.
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nailed+it.jpg
 
The hole o line needs to step it up on passing plAys yes we are week in the middle but brown or Winston didnt stop freeny and mathis from getting at schaub
 
Norg said:
The hole o line needs to step it up on passing plAys yes we are week in the middle but brown or Winston didnt stop freeny and mathis from getting at schaub
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Actually, I believe the Texans were pretty high in fewest sacks allowed.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
No hate, just no love in the Red Zone.
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definitely not where myers is at his best i agree but kasey is just as bad in that regard (and doesnt play near as well as myers otherwise) yet receives little criticism in comparison. the whole line is pretty poor in gact yet everyone acts like its just one guy
 
Maddict5 said:
definitely not where myers is at his best i agree but kasey is just as bad in that regard (and doesnt play near as well as myers otherwise) yet receives little criticism in comparison. the whole line is pretty poor in gact yet everyone acts like its just one guy
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Difference is Myers has been a starter while for the most part Studdard has been on the bench. Studdard hasn't been free from harsh criticism on the board as well.

I think it's like CnD pointed out; most people can recognize he does well in space and gets to the second level fine. It's just at those critical moments where we really need a push or him to at least hold the point of attack at center his weaknesses don't show, they are glaring.
 
Maddict5 said:
definitely not where myers is at his best i agree but kasey is just as bad in that regard (and doesnt play near as well as myers otherwise) yet receives little criticism in comparison. the whole line is pretty poor in gact yet everyone acts like its just one guy
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Offensive line play starts at the center.... While I agree with many of your takes, Myers is weak and I hate to say that because his dad would occasionally post here and seemed like a cool cat.... At the end of the day, Chris was destroyed several times.. Litterally blown up....
 
Texan_Bill said:
Offensive line play starts at the center.... While I agree with many of your takes, Myers is weak and I hate to say that because his dad would occasionally post here and seemed like a cool cat.... At the end of the day, Chris was destroyed several times.. Litterally blown up....
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So was McKinney. And Flanagan, too.
So is Wade Smith.

Define "several times" like in 5 or 10? And show me the money! :slapfight:
 
And while we're on this subject, let me ask the "pro-Kubiak" thought of being able to go get that one tough yard:
"Why did the Colts hardly ever run up the middle on third and short? And when they do it, it would be against team without great presence at the nose or DT? Some people seem to think that Jeff Saturday is one heck of a center. So why did the Colts choose to do something else?"

Umm, let me guess, some HC & OC think that banging your head agaisnt the wall is not a good idea.
 
Schaub did one hell of a job getting rid of the ball often times before a would be sack, in fact seemed like he was running for his life alot. numbers just don't work like they do in baseball.
 
beerlover said:
Schaub did one hell of a job getting rid of the ball often times before a would be sack, in fact seemed like he was running for his life alot. numbers just don't work like they do in baseball.
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In the last four games of the season, Schaub did a very good job at that.
Before that, it was a give-some, take-some scenario.
Sometimes, MS would run for his life (usually due to pressure from the edges).
Sometimes, he would hold on to the ball too long and hurt the tackles with an unecessary sack allowed.
Sometimes, he did what a good QB should do: either get rid of the ball or get out of there and see if he can make something of it (something Kubiak had mentioned during OTA).
 
Maddict5 said:
:rolleyes:

i still lol at the myers hate in every thread over a couple bad plays when he was our most consistently good player last year
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:rolleyes: "consistently getting pushed around", doesn't make you a "consistently good player".


Seriously, how can anybody think that Myers was our most consistently good player last season. If we had a legit starting center who could hold up against legit tackles in this league alot of the problems that we currently have with our Oline would disappear overnight.
 
Maddict5 said:
definitely not where myers is at his best i agree but kasey is just as bad in that regard (and doesnt play near as well as myers otherwise) yet receives little criticism in comparison. the whole line is pretty poor in gact yet everyone acts like its just one guy
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:) what??? Studdard catches criticism all the time.
 
Carr Bombed said:
:rolleyes: "consistently getting pushed around", doesn't make you a "consistently good player".


Seriously, how can anybody think that Myers was our most consistently good player last season. If we had a legit starting center who could hold up against legit tackles in this league alot of the problems that we currently have with our Oline would disappear overnight.
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all the sites that actually chart every play say hes an above average center instead of just remembering a few highlight reel plays and writing him off as 'he sucks'.

Carr Bombed said:
:) what??? Studdard catches criticism all the time.
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not nearly as much as myers. when anyone starts about the o-line weaknesses, it nearly always myers that gets mentioned
 
76Texan said:
And while we're on this subject, let me ask the "pro-Kubiak" thought of being able to go get that one tough yard:
"Why did the Colts hardly ever run up the middle on third and short? And when they do it, it would be against team without great presence at the nose or DT? Some people seem to think that Jeff Saturday is one heck of a center. So why did the Colts choose to do something else?"

Umm, let me guess, some HC & OC think that banging your head agaisnt the wall is not a good idea.
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and thats why the only yr the colts have actually won it all is the year they were able to get the hard running yards (at the end of the baltimore game). more often than not, you will need it somewhere so im guessing kubiak is trying to condition that into them
 
Maddict5 said:
all the sites that actually chart every play say hes an above average center...
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How many of these sites are there? Because there have been discussions on this board on the dubious information produced by Pro Football Focus and The Football Scientist (KC Joyner).

I think you have to look at the results of the team. Matt Schaub has had relatively good protection over the past couple of seasons. Myers is part of that. At the same time, this team has struggled running the ball. Especially when a d-lineman covers up the center. Myers has strengths in that he's fairly mobile, technically sound, and smart. His weakness is that he's not very strong. That shows up against teams like the Jets, Ravens, Steelers, etc. Myers is what he is.
 
I just can't see how we can put our line up in the top 10 much less right outside of the top 5. Schaub had a ton of pressures and hits applied to him and there were plenty of times where if our receivers (Specifically AJ and OD) weren't so good he would've had a lot lower of a completion %. I do think the line will do better than this season than last, but to catapult them that high seems folly to me.

Also, Meyers is fairly weak, but having weak guards around the center is going to make him seem a hell of a lot worse. Studdard and Caldwell need to up their games considerably this year if we want to have any semblance of an inside run game, and the ability to stop really good DT's.
 
How does an OL that ranks 30th in yards per rush attempt deserve to be ranked 6th in the NFL?
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-rush-attempt

I can see the productivity in the passing game and athleticism demonstrated on screen plays compensating a bit for their inability to control the LOS on run downs, but not completely carrying the evaluation.
 
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Lucky said:
How many of these sites are there? Because there have been discussions on this board on the dubious information produced by Pro Football Focus and The Football Scientist (KC Joyner).

I think you have to look at the results of the team. Matt Schaub has had relatively good protection over the past couple of seasons. Myers is part of that. At the same time, this team has struggled running the ball. Especially when a d-lineman covers up the center. Myers has strengths in that he's fairly mobile, technically sound, and smart. His weakness is that he's not very strong. That shows up against teams like the Jets, Ravens, Steelers, etc. Myers is what he is.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiJ9lYyj4uQ

I agree that Myers has his strengths just like Lucky says. His main problem seems to be that while he is listed at 6'4'' 295, he doesn't play like it. Finesse is fine but sometimes you have to be able to beat a guy man on man or he will blow up a play completely. I know everyone on the team sucked in the first game last year when we played the jets, but every time i hear criticism of Myers this clip runs through my head bc i couldnt believe it when it happened and im afraid it will happen again and it might turn out worse next time. If this had happened on a run he would've be there to take the hand off from Matt himself or at least cause a fumble when the back tried to take it. Our system asks our linemen to be quick and able to move so smaller guys work well with that, but there has to be a balance between that and strength. Kris Jenkins is a beast and an unfair example but a starting center has to be able to hold a DT up by himself for at least 3 seconds to allow the play to develope. He wouldnt be asked to block the nose alone if it wasnt designed to be a quick release and he couldnt even give him that.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcqjClE7cuk&feature=related

I just saw this one, its the play where Jared Allen hit Shaub's knee. Duane Brown tried to run Allen around the QB, not the best move on a deep drop like he had but it worked out ok, but Myers was driven back into Shaub every step of his 5 step drop. Shaub actually had to side step around him to make the throw. Myers consistently gets beaten when the situation calls for him to drive his feet and power a guy.
 
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Clamp said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiJ9lYyj4uQ

I know everyone on the team sucked in the first game last year when we played the jets, but every time i hear criticism of Myers this clip runs through my head bc i couldnt believe it when it happened and im afraid it will happen again and it might turn out worse next time.
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If we are going to complain about the Hampton play, then we should also look at what Hampton did to what many here consider one of the best OC in the AFC Kevin Mawae, Titans v Jets. Hampton blew up most of the guys who tried to block him one on one, until he hurt his knee.
 
painekiller said:
If we are going to complain about the Hampton play, then we should also look at what Hampton did to what many here consider one of the best OC in the AFC Kevin Mawae, Titans v Jets. Hampton blew up most of the guys who tried to block him one on one, until he hurt his knee.
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I'm sure you typed Jenkins, but you have a malicious virus that automatically changes it...

And you are absolutely correct. There is not a center in the league who can block him one-on-one when it is an obvious pass play.
 
Clamp said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiJ9lYyj4uQ

I agree that Myers has his strengths just like Lucky says. His main problem seems to be that while he is listed at 6'4'' 295, he doesn't play like it. Finesse is fine but sometimes you have to be able to beat a guy man on man or he will blow up a play completely. I know everyone on the team sucked in the first game last year when we played the jets, but every time i hear criticism of Myers this clip runs through my head bc i couldnt believe it when it happened and im afraid it will happen again and it might turn out worse next time. If this had happened on a run he would've be there to take the hand off from Matt himself or at least cause a fumble when the back tried to take it. Our system asks our linemen to be quick and able to move so smaller guys work well with that, but there has to be a balance between that and strength. Kris Jenkins is a beast and an unfair example but a starting center has to be able to hold a DT up by himself for at least 3 seconds to allow the play to develope. He wouldnt be asked to block the nose alone if it wasnt designed to be a quick release and he couldnt even give him that.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcqjClE7cuk&feature=related

I just saw this one, its the play where Jared Allen hit Shaub's knee. Duane Brown tried to run Allen around the QB, not the best move on a deep drop like he had but it worked out ok, but Myers was driven back into Shaub every step of his 5 step drop. Shaub actually had to side step around him to make the throw. Myers consistently gets beaten when the situation calls for him to drive his feet and power a guy.
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1. BS. if schaub had time to drop back and rush a throw how do you figure jenkins wouldve been waiting to cause a fumble if it was a run play??
2.so you're saying its unfair to use kris jenkins as an example so you use the williams wall as the other corroborating 'evidence' that myers isnt good enough?


how about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zz6wQsvbXc

this isnt even the play where he blocked 3 guys on the same play but its the kind of key block that doesnt get noticed by 90% of the fans who only remember plays like the jenkins one. myers was part of the line that got slaton over 1200 yds in 08 so he can be part of an effective line. thats all im saying. yes he has size limitations (as do alot of centers) but his mobility and smartness help counteract this and it only gets exposed against elite nose tackles occasionally.

i just dont get the whole 'myers sucks & MUST be replaced' braintrust around here. obviously in a perfect world you'd want an elite guy at every position but that doesnt happen & myers is more than adequate at his position
 
Maddict5 said:
1. BS. if schaub had time to drop back and rush a throw how do you figure jenkins wouldve been waiting to cause a fumble if it was a run play??
2.so you're saying its unfair to use kris jenkins as an example so you use the williams wall as the other corroborating 'evidence' that myers isnt good enough?


how about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zz6wQsvbXc

this isnt even the play where he blocked 3 guys on the same play but its the kind of key block that doesnt get noticed by 90% of the fans who only remember plays like the jenkins one. myers was part of the line that got slaton over 1200 yds in 08 so he can be part of an effective line. thats all im saying. yes he has size limitations (as do alot of centers) but his mobility and smartness help counteract this and it only gets exposed against elite nose tackles occasionally.

i just dont get the whole 'myers sucks & MUST be replaced' braintrust around here. obviously in a perfect world you'd want an elite guy at every position but that doesnt happen & myers is more than adequate at his position
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Well, CB who had disagreed with me a million time before had said that I talk like a politician when I said Myers was the most EFFICIENT O-linemen OVERALL that the Texans had. But I'm not Obama.

I am concerned with (first) how we score points, and (second) how we move the ball to gain field advantage (and that include bad exchange to other penalties.)

The more you contribute to the team scoring point is what matters most to me. And next, do not hinder your team effort to move the ball.

I've seen Flanagan at his ugliest form, but he threw his body around... to many, I'm sure he looked like a rag doll... but to me, the guy was doing his best to gain every inch. And he played through many bruised ribs, like Myers did, something them guys never use as an excuse, and neither do I.
But I see guys making effort (like you see a guy on the basketball court diving for a loose ball), those are the kind of warriors I'd love to take to war!
 
Or when I learned that Duane Brown hurt his knee in the second game against the Colts, I ddin't know how bad it was... until the off-season, when I had more time to digest all the plays where I can see that he was practically playing on one leg in one game... but he played through it and more.
Butler finally had to relieve him in a later game (against the Rams in the second half).

Or when I watched Winston (due to his short arms) had to take all of those hand punches to the chest from Kampman (Packers) in the year before last.
Hey, whatever... injury or a physical shortcoming... as long as they fight hard... taking "one" or (more realistically ) "many" for the team and "not hurting the team"... those are the guys I want.

What fun is it when you have all the best players in the universe and win a game? Anti-climatic, I'd say!
 
76Texan said:
So was McKinney. And Flanagan, too.
So is Wade Smith.

Define "several times" like in 5 or 10? And show me the money! :slapfight:
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McKinney was a natural guard pressed into playing a center.... That said, Steve did a helluva lot better at center than Myers...


Have you played any of those positions?? I have, in fact I've played all five...
 
Texan_Bill said:
McKinney was a natural guard pressed into playing a center.... That said, Steve did a helluva lot better at center than Myers...


Have you played any of those positions?? I have, in fact I've played all five...
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With all due respect my dear friend, you know I don't play any of those positions, or maybe "you plain forgotten" THAT I have no football background!
Regardless, what does that have anything to do with our understanding of the game. Hey, last time I heard, at least one of the Texans coaches never play a certain position...........

Oh yeah McKinney did so well he and Flanagan had to battle through it all, whoever was healthy would play. And heck, I was pretty much the lone voice (or among the minority) in saying that it wasn't the center's fault (whether it was Mckinney or Flanagan) that our offense sucked!

I know the drill, my friend... I may have Alzheimer, but I tend to remember things pertaining to football. I can still remember who was "positive" on Chris White (guy is pretty upstanding in this community and in my thinking - I never dismished the thought; in fact I went back and check on the tapes, even back then. )

And there was no Chris Meyers on the Texan team. at the time.

Hey, I said I understood the "football econonomy" back then when we didn't resign Flanagan at some $3M, but I totally disagreed with not resigning McKinney at some $1M something (excuse me, but you know I'm really the not the kind of guy who's into the business side of football).

I do "value" those guys, I still have my notes here somewhere comparing their performances... If you don't know that I'm that crazy then now you do!

TB, you will not tell me that I have not observed the plays of the guys we had at Center... or at any position... because I did... Even if my opinions are different, you know you can be proud of your friend... due to the hard work of watching tapes! :choke:
 
Maddict5 said:
all the sites that actually chart every play say hes an above average center instead of just remembering a few highlight reel plays and writing him off as 'he sucks'.



not nearly as much as myers. when anyone starts about the o-line weaknesses, it nearly always myers that gets mentioned
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LOL, which sites?.......the ones that nobody holds any weight in?

I don't give a crap what some stat site says, I know what I see......and what I see is Chris Myers suckitude..and after 3 seasons I'm tired of watching it. Seriously...please stop claiming that this guy has been our best Olineman, because he hasn't been and he has cost us chances at a playoff berth. :rolleyes:

LOL, Chris Myers sucks and is one of the absolute worst starting centers in the league...please spare me some B.S. site who says he's not. (like this link that says that the Texans have the 6th best line...what a joke that is) I watch the guy play week in and week out. I can identify suck when I see it and Chris Myers....SUCKS!

Again like I said over a year ago. This team will never make the playoffs with Chris Myers as our starting center. Now feel free to bookmark/save this post. As long as Chris (the flying nun) Myers is our starting center, the Texans will never make the playoffs.
 
Carr Bombed said:
LOL, which sites?.......the ones that nobody holds any weight in?

I don't give a crap what some stat site says, I know what I see......and what I see is Chris Myers suckitude..and after 3 seasons I'm tired of watching it. Seriously...please stop claiming that this guy has been our best Olineman, because he hasn't been and he has cost us chances at a playoff berth. :rolleyes:

LOL, Chris Myers sucks and is one of the absolute worst starting centers in the league...please spare me some B.S. site who says he's not. (like this link that says that the Texans have the 6th best line...what a joke that is) I watch the guy play week in and week out. I can identify suck when I see it and Chris Myers....SUCKS!

Again like I said over a year ago. This team will never make the playoffs with Chris Myers as our starting center. Now feel free to bookmark/save this post. As long as Chris (the flying nun) Myers is our starting center, the Texans will never make the playoffs.
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Really? I'm not a huge fan of the guy by any stretch of the imagination but this team was a couple of lay down jobs by other teams last year from making the playoffs. I don't think its that big of a stretch they can make it this year, even with Myers at center.
 
76Texan said:
Or when I watched Winston (due to his short arms) had to take all of those hand punches to the chest from Kampman (Packers) in the year before last.
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I'm sorry this is just a combine/draft geek thing to say. The OL and DL rarely engage at full arm extension. Winston's arms are irrelevant other than in their strength. What he gets beat on is speed rushers like Mathis and one inch longer arms wouldn't solve that problem.

Carr Bombed said:
Now feel free to bookmark/save this post. As long as Chris (the flying nun) Myers is our starting center, the Texans will never make the playoffs.
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Well that's just silly. If Kris Brown had hit to the average he did the two years previously the Texans would have been in the playoffs with Myers. Great hyperbole to make a point I suppose but inaccurate.
 
Fox said:
I'll give ya that the RB's didn't help them out much, but there weren't gaping holes for them to run through either. I'd like to see an argument for them being a good run blocking unit last year.
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Well, we saw what happened when Arian Foster was back there, who did MUCH better than expected. I think our O-Line is fine, except for center and some depth to the interior.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
No hate, just no love in the Red Zone.
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I can live with that.

My question, concerning the red zone, is why did we continually try to do what we aren't good at. Inside Zone doesn't work very well on a short field, we don't have the personnel to run power I.

Few teams ran misdirection as effectively as we did, and we were fairly efficient when stretching to the right.

I understand we have to run it up the middle on the goal line, to avoid being predictable. I don't understand why we predictably tried to run it up the middle.
 
Winston mentioned in his shutdown corner interview the importance of guys playing together all season. He talked about the fact that the Texans run offense was much improved in the second half of the season.

When you juggle players in as we did last year - the zone scheme, more than anything else, is all about playing together and being a part of it. That's something I have learned in the last couple of years; even though it's a great system, I have to understand not just who I have and what combination I have, but what are we really trying to do here? Toward the end of the year, the new guys started to understand that even if the ball was going the other way, they were really still the point of attack and they had to start getting some push. As a result, I think you saw our run stats go up toward the end of the year, more where we like it.
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beerlover said:
Schaub did one hell of a job getting rid of the ball often times before a would be sack, in fact seemed like he was running for his life alot. numbers just don't work like they do in baseball.
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Tell me again why Peyton doesn't get sacked?

I think that's part of the game.
That's why you need a QB who can take a lick, and come back looking to pop somebody in the mouth.
 
Maddict5 said:
all the sites that actually chart every play say hes an above average center instead of just remembering a few highlight reel plays and writing him off as 'he sucks'.



not nearly as much as myers. when anyone starts about the o-line weaknesses, it nearly always myers that gets mentioned
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What gets me the most, is that Winston gets praise & accolades when he IMHO is the weakest link on the field. They'll come back, and say, "Winston is going against elite pass rushers on every play."

Then curse Myers for getting blown up against Jenkins & Hampton.
 
b0ng said:
I just can't see how we can put our line up in the top 10 much less right outside of the top 5. Schaub had a ton of pressures and hits applied to him and there were plenty of times where if our receivers (Specifically AJ and OD) weren't so good he would've had a lot lower of a completion %. I do think the line will do better than this season than last, but to catapult them that high seems folly to me.
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The dude said they were 8th in 2009, despite Matt's limited mobility, and fail in the run game. He's projecting a 100% Schaub and a better backfield would help us improve... from 8.

He gives us 3 spots.

Folly? He sounds almost conservative to me.
 
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