Stats for perspective

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by speedfreek, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. speedfreek

    speedfreek Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,467
    Likes Received:
    86
    Ok we did this for KC, lets do it for Indy

    Kaepernick vs Indy.
    C/ATT - 13/27
    YDS - 150
    AVG - 5.6
    TD - 0
    INT - 1
    SACKS - 3-11
    QBR - 11.8
    RTG - 49.9

    Wilson vs. Indy.
    C/ATT - 15/31
    YDS - 210
    AVG - 6.8
    TD - 2
    INT - 1
    SACKS - 2-5
    QBR - 67.1
    RTG - 78.7

    Keenum vs. Indy.
    C/ATT - 20/34
    YDS - 350
    AVG - 10.3
    TD - 3
    INT - 0
    SACKS - 1-10
    QBR - 96.6
    RTG - 123.4

    So, here's my question. If you take Keenum off the Texans
    and Kaepernick off the 49ers which team has the better players
    remaining, SF or Houston? (injured players and coaching
    staffs considered as well..)

    If you take Keenum off the Texans and Wilson off of the Seahawks
    which team has the better players remaining, Seattle or Houston?

    That's one reason I argue that if we take a QB it should be in
    round 2. We have too many needs to pass up the "best available"
    in round 1.

    People are consistently saying that because Keenum was an UDFA
    that we need to address the QB position first in the draft.

    Given that Luck, Kaepernic, and Wilson all went higer than Keenum, and
    Keenum's numbers are better than all of them in head to head
    I just don't see the argument that Keenums UDFA status means
    anything other than the 31 other teams failed to grade him correctly..

    TJ
     
  2. mattieuk

    mattieuk Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,475
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    I think part of the issue is the changing atmosphere in the league from a pocket passer, to a mobile run play making quaterback.

    Some teams (especially ourselves) have been late to the party with regards to finding a QB who has a good skillset for the modern league.

    Either way, I definately don't want to be burning a 1st round pick at this point on a QB. We'll see how Case does here on out, and then assess the situation at the end of the year when we know if his early outstanding play is just due to defenses being caught out, or whether he really is a starter in the NFL.
     
  3. Mr teX

    Mr teX Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    8,184
    Likes Received:
    467
    Location:
    Everyone Wants The Throne
    People keep saying the bolded...but the best qb's in the league are still pocket passers..

    Manning
    Brady
    Brees
    Rodgers
    Luck
    Stafford
    Ryan

    hell, even the guys who can run are trying to curb their impulses b/c they know you're not gonna be able to make a living long term doing that as RG3 found out last year & what Wilson knew from the jump.

    The only thing that's changing is teams are becoming more open minded when it comes to taking on the atypical qb from a measureables standpoint b/c they know they may have a chance to win with them..... early on anyway.
     
  4. GuerillaBlack

    GuerillaBlack Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    9,217
    Likes Received:
    622
    Location:
    Montrose
    Brees, Rodgers, Luck, Stafford, and sometimes Ryan can still escape and have some mobility to them to run for a first down or throw on the run. TBH, Brady and Manning are becoming the exception to this new wave of young QBs.
     
  5. mattieuk

    mattieuk Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,475
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    That may be true, but most of that list are established QBs from the previous generation of QBs in the league. Whilst we don't know whether the trend is going to die out, with players like RGIII, Wilson, Manuel and Kaepernick emerging there will be a strong test to teams and their ethos. I think the majority of teams who don't have one of those guys that you mentioned will be strong armed into taking QBs of that ilk by convention and fanbases alike.

    Either way - I think that with the completely different criteria of judging QBs that the mobile QB influx will mean that there is much more value down the board as teams try to figure out what mobile QBs have the level of skillset to make it in the modern NFL.

    By the way - completely agree about limiting plays with the legs. RGIII learnt the hard way - hopefully others can pick up the lesson from the outset like Wilson and Kaepernick have done.
     
  6. Mr teX

    Mr teX Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    8,184
    Likes Received:
    467
    Location:
    Everyone Wants The Throne
    All the guys i listed can do it if they have to....hell ancient ass Peyton Manning has a rushing TD this year on a bootleg...:mariopalm: What i mean to say is the pass is 1st, 2nd and 3rd..options for all those guys..running the ball is a distant 100th option for them. Not the case with alot of these young mobile guys...lone exception is Wilson.
     
  7. ziggy29

    ziggy29 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,739
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Nordheim, TX
    Pocket passers mainly, sure, BUT -- unlike Schaub, most of these guys can "feel" the rush and get out of the pocket or step up in the pocket to buy a few more seconds to make a play.

    To me it's less important whether you are a "scrambling" QB or one that prefers to stay in the pocket. What's most important is the ability to sense the rush coming, move just enough to buy time to make a play, and if the play isn't there.... don't make a terrible decision throwing into coverage or telegraph your decision to the defense.
     
  8. speedfreek

    speedfreek Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,467
    Likes Received:
    86
    Since we are bringing up pocket passers like Manning...

    Here is Manning vs. Colts

    C/ATT - 29/49
    YDS - 386
    AVG - 7.9
    TD - 3
    INT - 1
    SACKS - 4-21
    QBR - 57.9
    RTG - 96.1

    Once again, remove Keenum from the (current) Texans
    and Manning from the Broncos -- which team has the better
    talent?

    TJ
     
  9. ziggy29

    ziggy29 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,739
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Nordheim, TX
    Denver (or should I say Enver?) has no D. They are giving up more than twice as many points per game as KC and Carolina.

    Without Manning they'd certainly have to find new ways to win.
     
  10. speedfreek

    speedfreek Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,467
    Likes Received:
    86
    >Without Manning they'd certainly have to find new ways to win.

    My point, in putting things this way, was that with no Daniels,
    no Foster, Ben Tate with broken ribs, no Manning, no Cushing,
    and no OC in the second half Keenum put up better QB numbers
    than Manning, Wilson, Kaepernick, and Luck, and those QB's
    have better teams.

    That's all I'm saying.

    I expect Case to stumble. He is, essentially, a first year guy.
    He's going to have his bad games. But right now, the guy is
    impressing the hell out of me.

    Imagine if he can get even better. Perhaps we can even win
    some games _in spite_ of a crappy special teams and a defense
    that keeps choking in crunch time..

    TJ
     
    qqert likes this.
  11. GuerillaBlack

    GuerillaBlack Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    9,217
    Likes Received:
    622
    Location:
    Montrose
    So you think Keenum tries to run around first before passing it? He is pocket first, but can use his mobility like the others I listed...
     
  12. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    38,592
    Likes Received:
    1,682
    Location:
    Texas
    I agree. I want an OG to replace Wade, I want a OT to replace Newton & have potential to play the left side if we need him to. If Brennan Williams turns out to be healthy, great. If not..... SoS different year.

    I want a bad ass ILB next to Cushing & if he outplays Cushing & Cushing is only playing 2 downs, anyone talking about cutting him needs to get a foot shoved straight up their....
     
  13. speedfreek

    speedfreek Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,467
    Likes Received:
    86
    [​IMG]

    TJ
     
    santo likes this.
  14. mussop

    mussop Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    412
    Your both crazy. You don't pass up an opportunity to draft a franchise QB if you have the chance. Not saying we will have that chance. But if we do you don't pass it up. Even if case looks good the rest of the season.
     
  15. Exascor

    Exascor Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,617
    Likes Received:
    111
    Location:
    Atascocita
    If Keenum performs at 90% of the level he did in the first 2 games, would he not be a "franchise" QB? Would he not have done enough to have been drafted in the first round given the 10 games against NFL competition? That's NFL (ie better than SEC) competition for a full college season length. Would he not be drafted ahead of around 10 current starting NFL QBs? How many 1st round QBs end up being busts instead of franchise QBs anyways?

    For perspective - Keenum's 2013 stats if he were to perform at 90% of his first 2 games for the remaining 8:
    2853 yards, 18 tds 8 ints (1 int per game remaining)

    for a full 16 game season:
    4565 yards, 28 tds 12 ints (1 int per game not played)

    At 100% for a 16 game season he'd be considered a top 5 QB:
    5136 yards, 32 tds 0 ints

    There isn't an Andrew Luck, RGIII, Cam Newton, Matt Stafford... in this draft that I can see. There's more Andy Dalton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert & Alex Smiths. Solid but not sure things.

    Why not plug a sure hole with the high pick and take a flyer on a QB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds to keep Keenum competing? He isn't going to reach the numbers I posted but... Seems like no matter what Keenum does he'll always be doubted because of his draft status.
     
  16. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    13,582
    Likes Received:
    528
    I wouldn't worry.
    Keenum will grow on people.

    I've said this before, it doesn't matter how you start, it's how you finish.
    If Keenum is the cream, he will rise.
     
    Exascor likes this.
  17. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    15,472
    Likes Received:
    2,294
    I agree with everything you said but you somehow put Blaine Gabbert in a list of "solid but not sure things" QB's. I'd go get a thermometer and take your temperature. Maybe take a day off just in case you're coming down with something. ;)
     
  18. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    15,472
    Likes Received:
    2,294

    We had a lot of "Just because he's the same height doesn't mean he's going to be another Drew Brees!" posts a while back and I've gotta say that if he keeps up the level of play he's given us so far and continues to improve then that's pretty much exactly what he looks like to me.
     
  19. Exascor

    Exascor Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,617
    Likes Received:
    111
    Location:
    Atascocita
    lol. Must spread rep Herv. Frankly, I'm really not sure where his name came from. I am retarded for including him and should be forced to "Keep Choppin' Wood" in the Jags locker room for all eternity. :bat:
     
  20. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    13,582
    Likes Received:
    528
    Hahahaha!
     

Share This Page