State of the O-line

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by jradMIT, Jan 21, 2017.

  1. Max

    Max Hall of Fame

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    I'm with you on trying to see the other side of the coin than the doom & gloom crowd. But in your defense of BOB, I think you consistently overlook how much this team has been set back by improper evaluation of talent and the cascade effect it has had on draft picks & trades year over year. In 2 years, we've brought in 5 guys who are now playing guard or center (Kelemete, Fulton, Rankin, Howard, Scharping) and 3 of them were initially thought to be tackles (Rankin, Howard and Scharping). That doesn't seem like a good plan. If Rankin can't play T, then he's a G, right? Well, we just used a 1st and 2nd round pick that are now playing his position, so do we know if he can play G? Or is last year's 3rd round pick a bust already? The answer is that we don't know because of how they're deciding to evaluate these guys. And just like we don't know what we have in Rankin at G, next year we won't know what we have in Howard and Scharping at T. So looking on the bright side, hopefully it all just works out. But it still doesn't address whether or not it's the smartest way to go about building a team (which was my point).
     
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  2. justmy2cents

    justmy2cents All Pro

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    Max, I agree with all that you said. But, can you describe what method or blueprint, you would use to build a team ?
     
  3. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss MVP

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    I'm not Max, but I'll give it a shot.
    1. Draft good players
    2. Hire good coaches
    3. Cut poor players
    4. Draft good players

    I'm still working out the details
     
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  4. steelbtexan

    steelbtexan Hall of Fame

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    They need to protect the young man if they want to succeed. So far 2 GM's have failed to do this. If given what Watson needs to succeed he could become Steve Young. I've just never understood GM's who trade 2 or more 1st rd picks for a QB, who they then fail to protect properly.
     
  5. justmy2cents

    justmy2cents All Pro

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  6. justmy2cents

    justmy2cents All Pro

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  7. Max

    Max Hall of Fame

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    I was discussing the OL, so in that regard, I think that things should be simplified. I'm sure a lot of guys on here have played and can relate to hearing the play called in the huddle and trying to remember what you're supposed to do on that play. I can remember several times not having it clear in my head until I had my hand in the dirt. That was with one play called in the huddle -- these guys have two. Add to that trying to remember if the blocking assignment you think you're supposed to have is for what they taught you at tackle or guard and it's way too much going on in a rookie's head IMO. When I see Rankin last year freeze and literally decide to not block anyone on several plays, I don't see a guy that can't play necessarily, I see a guy that needs to learn the playbook because his head is filled with too much stuff. So for Olineman, play them at the position you've picked them to play at. Professional scouts and coaches should be able to identify if someone is a guard or a tackle before acquiring the talent. Then evaluate by letting them learn that position well.

    Overall blueprint is a different story and I thought the plan w/ Gaine was good as far as building through the draft and supplementing w/ mid tier free agents and paying your core stars. The execution wasn't there but I think it's the only way to build w/ today's cap rules.

    On a side note, I think it's fair to question whether talent acquisition is the problem or the system itself when there seems to be many more player misses on the offensive side of the ball than the defensive side. I'm sure someone will point out where I'm off on that take but it seems that way to me.
     
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  8. justmy2cents

    justmy2cents All Pro

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    That someone will not be me. I think it could be as simple as - Romeo is a much better judge of talent than Bill. Surely a Mathews, or a Munchak, or a Wade Smith wouldn't be a key first step. As brilliant as O'Brien is, he would have implemented it long ago .... Shirley !
     
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  9. Corrosion

    Corrosion Idealist

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    What was Max Scharping ?

    Haven't heard a thing about him thus far ….

    That draft looks worse and worse the further away from it we get …

    Howard cant play tackle. Scharping is MIA , Warring is the second coming of Bennie Joppru and Lonnie Johnson gets kicked outa practices …. (not complaining about Johnson just adding to the list of X)

    This team is totally dysfunctional. That cluster**** we watched in Green Bay was not anything resembling a "well coached team" …. they looked worse than the Browns over the last 5 years from start to finish.
     
  10. Corrosion

    Corrosion Idealist

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    OB and Brilliant should never be mentioned in the same sentence …. even in jest.
    We need more than pink soap to wash off the stupid that's gone down on Kirby recently.
     
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  11. maverick512000

    maverick512000 Hall of Fame

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    Yep, 2 months removed from the draft and before the season ever starts the entire draft was a bust. I agree we should base all our thoughts on this season on a pre-season game where we were playing the backup to our backup QB.

    FYI, Howard can play tackle they just don't have him doing it but when he did get reps there he looked pretty good.

    Scharping is not MIA he played RG and the biggest reason they had him playing RG is because Martin is injured, again, and Fulton had to move to center so Scharping was moved to RG, he has been getting reps at RT.

    I agree with declaring Warring a bust before he ever plays a single down, it saves time later and allows us to ignore all the good things we heard about him in practice.
     
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  12. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Pro BS'er

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    Thats where im at with this year so far. You'll have the eternal optimists spout off "the year hasnt even started, you need to give guys 3 years before you declare busts" yada yada. My thing is that you could have DeAndre BAker as your starting CB this year, and ran out the same offensive line as last year and you would be better as a team. You could have done many things in the draft differently if you really felt the guard position needed to be addressed. These guys are so reactionary and do things based off emotional response vs a businesslike approach. See guys have a few good reps at the Senior Bowl? Draft em in the 1st round why not!! Have your 3rd round RB late to a meeting? Cut him outright why not?! Spend another 3rd on a lineman you valued last year (Rankin) and this year it looks like he's not even in the picture. YOu wont give up a 3rd round pick to move up and get the best TRUE LT available, but then you WILL use that pick on a backup running back this year because you totally botched how you dealt with Foreman? Its a ridiculously poorly run team/business and you dont need an MBA to see that.

    Max Sharping was the starting LT for the fightin' Northern Illinois Huskies! Woof! Woof! Guy has probably never played inside and now people wonder why he's struggling the dude is freaking 6'6 LOL pad level is a real thing when talking about interior line play and the leverage needed to be successful - reminds me of Mike Iupati - phenom OG in college, but as soon as he hit the NFL those nasty boogers that were just as heavy, and were 3 inches shorter would get up under him and make his life a nightmare. To his credit he has been able to be successful at the NFL level obviously but he's a guy I remember not really blowing up like I thought he would and it could be just a matter of inches .. literally. Im looking for guys 6'3 ideally, but no taller than 6'4 to work the inside of my line. I'd be grooming Sharping as my RT exclusively, and Howard as the LT exclusively. You should have enough players on the roster to fill out the interior line. Yes, I would start both of those rookies at the edge - they cant be worse than Kalil/Henderson.
     
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  13. maverick512000

    maverick512000 Hall of Fame

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    Really hope the irony is not lost.
     
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  14. Childress79

    Childress79 Rookie

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    I do not see the problem in letting these guys get their feet wet at positions where they are more likely to succeed and where they might have more support from veteran teammates on their right and left. We could also have gone the route the team did with Duane Brown and have one or both of Howard and Scharping play OT switching off series too. And if we had guys that were better OGs than what Scharping or Howard are then that might be better the plan. However, if going this route puts our best talent out on the field and serves the purpose of making our rookie o-linemen better too, whats the ******* problem? Does anyone think that they would not get kicked out to tackle around the bye week if they are ready? Later in the season? Is there any reason to believe that if they do not begin week 1 at OT that they cannot later be moved out there if they are ready?
     
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  15. steelbtexan

    steelbtexan Hall of Fame

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    Great post,

    I would have gone a different direction during the draft. Foreman couldn't make it back from injury like CnD predicted.

    As of right now I would trade for Williams if he becomes available.

    An OL of

    Williams, Howard/Martin/Fulton/Scharping has potential to be at least avg. Howard's athletic profile translates more to of than it. IMHO This doesn't mean he can't play it but he's better as an og.

    Good news is next yrs ot class is a really good one if you need a LT. Unfortunately Devlin will find a way to miss out on the franchise LT's and recommend a small school guy that he will get credit for developing. This orgs arrogance knows no bounds.

    Sorry you've got me on ignore and won't see this post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019 at 9:07 AM
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  16. IDEXAN

    IDEXAN Hall of Fame

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    Excellent point SteelB ! Well said my man !
    Yea it's kinda like investing a ton of cash in one's residence which lies on an earth quake fault and then woefully underinsuring it. It's really stunning and puzzling when one thinks about it you know ?
    The Houston Texans organization has now had 3 (three) Drafts and 3 (three) offseason free agencies to secure just capable, not suprior, just capable protection for Watson and right now nobody really has a clue what we've got at LT today ?
     
  17. JB

    JB Old Curmudgeon

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    Most everything on this board is agenda driven
     
  18. JB

    JB Old Curmudgeon

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    I'm sure what the Texans have at LT today... a clusterfuck!
     
  19. steelbtexan

    steelbtexan Hall of Fame

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    Sad when you think about all of the cap space they have available. Negligence.
     
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  20. steelbtexan

    steelbtexan Hall of Fame

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    What agendas?

    I think posters are just acknowledging what a clusterfvck this org is and give ideas of how things need to be fixed.

    See: ID's post to me above.
     
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