State of the O-line

[Bulls on Parade]

Brooks: rated 4th out of 188 OGs. Expected to be drafted in the 2nd round

It appears the Texans drafted players they thought could be "coached up" or were getting a bargain compared to their expected draft position. Unfortunately, it didn't work out for them.

We got it right on that one but for some reason we didn't reap the rewards and gave up on him too soon. He played one year here under Mike Devlin and wasn't that good.

But Brandon Brooks has turned into one of the better offensive guards in the league. Made his first pro bowl in 2017 on a Super Bowl winning team. He should make his second straight pro bowl this year.

Apparently, Brooks was miserable here in Houston.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2778691-brandon-brooks-rips-time-with-bill-obrien-texans-s-t-was-miserable

He nearly retired because of Bill O'Brien. Brandon Brooks leaves Houston, has fun playing football again, and he becomes a Pro Bowler at OG. Interesting... Not only is his bank account bigger than ever he has a shiny Super Bowl ring on his finger.

 

[JB]

We got it right on that one but for some reason we didn't reap the rewards and gave up on him too soon. He played one year here under Mike Devlin and wasn't that good.

But Brandon Brooks has turned into one of the better offensive guards in the league. Made his first pro bowl in 2017 on a Super Bowl winning team. He should make his second straight pro bowl this year.

Apparently, Brooks was miserable here in Houston.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2778691-brandon-brooks-rips-time-with-bill-obrien-texans-s-t-was-miserable

He nearly retired because of Bill O'Brien. Brandon Brooks leaves Houston, has fun playing football again, and he becomes a Pro Bowler at OG. Interesting... Not only is his bank account bigger than ever he has a shiny Super Bowl ring on his finger.

Not that it changes your point, but Brooks never played for Devlin

 

[infantrycak]

Not that it changes your point, but Brooks never played for Devlin

2014 was Paul Dunn
2015 was Devlin
2016 Brooks went to the Eagles

Brooks is such an oddity. He was atypical as a ZBS guy, but showed potential. With his mammoth size you'd have thought he would be one of the holdovers to a "get bigger" change to power blocking.

 

[JB]

2014 was Paul Dunn
2015 was Devlin
2016 Brooks went to the Eagles

I thought he left after the 2014 season

 

[Shishkabob]

2014 was Paul Dunn
2015 was Devlin
2016 Brooks went to the Eagles

Brooks is such an oddity. He was atypical as a ZBS guy, but showed potential. With his mammoth size you'd have thought he would be one of the holdovers to a "get bigger" change to power blocking.

pretty sure it was clear with his comments after he left, he did not like playing for OB. Who knows maybe OB didnt like him either. Either way dumb move

 

[OptimisticTexan]

How many first & 2nd rounders were on that line?

Didn't Chris Myers make the Pro Bowl? May not have been an all pro, but I think he was regarded as one of the best doing their job.

The Broncos used to have an OL factory back in the day, under Shanahan. Year after year they were churning out solid linemen out of low round & undrafted free agents. Back when they had coaches who coached.

The only two years of decent OL productivity was due to the coaching. They coached up mid to later picks and they became better players. Now for those two years, the puzzle pieces fit nicely into one cohesive unit. Some of those pieces didn't perform to the same level once they moved on to new teams. Top OL Coach is common denominator and the Texans only had one in Gibbs for too short of a time. I still think the Texans have done themselves a horrible disservice in not hiring Bruce Mathews in some capacity to help with the OL since he's sitting at home. Pro-Bowler, All Pro and HOF OL aren't always this available.

The Broncos success centered around a bunch of lightweight but fast OL who executed blocking techniques that has since been outlawed in the NFL. Their OL's of past would have no chance for success in today's NFL and their new blocking rules.

About the only thing from the past that needs to be revisited b/c of the rule changes.....is a Full Throttle No-Huddle Run-N-Shoot Offense. The new rules, size of WR's and speed + size of TE's could make this type of offense absolutely devastating while running defenses into the ground or forcing them to burn timeouts in order to change their personnel packages. I'm still waiting for a forward thinking offensive coach who'll have the gumption to try this slightly modified offense one more time.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

We got it right on that one but for some reason we didn't reap the rewards and gave up on him too soon. He played one year here under Mike Devlin and wasn't that good.

But Brandon Brooks has turned into one of the better offensive guards in the league. Made his first pro bowl in 2017 on a Super Bowl winning team. He should make his second straight pro bowl this year.

Apparently, Brooks was miserable here in Houston.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2778691-brandon-brooks-rips-time-with-bill-obrien-texans-s-t-was-miserable

He nearly retired because of Bill O'Brien. Brandon Brooks leaves Houston, has fun playing football again, and he becomes a Pro Bowler at OG. Interesting... Not only is his bank account bigger than ever he has a shiny Super Bowl ring on his finger.

I am really getting tired of hearing this story. Again, this is all ignoring that Brooks suffered with very severe anxiety disorder which was never properly diagnosed or treated by the Texans medical staff. Instead, he was treated for the occasional end result............gastro-duodenal ulcers. Brooks would routinely get "sick" prior to games and sometimes before practices strictly due to the anxiety. O'Brien and the coaching staff, having to rely on the medical staff's evaluation that there was essentially nothing really wrong with Brooks, in turn interpreted his "attitude" and affected performance as Brooks just dogging it. Understandably, O'Brien pushed Brooks to an extent that he felt undeservedly and unmercifully "ridden." Then, he goes to another team, is properly diagnosed and treated, and turns everything around..........yet still directing his anger mostly against the wrong entity..........O'Brien.

 

[beerlover]

I'm getting tired of hearing this story. Again, this is all ignoring that Brooks suffered with very severe anxiety disorder which was never properly diagnosed or treated by the Texans medical staff. Instead, he was treated for the occasional end result............gastro-duodenal ulcers. Brooks would routinely get "sick" prior to games and sometimes before practices strictly due to the anxiety. O'Brien and the coaching staff, having to rely on the medical staff's evaluation that there was essentially nothing really wrong with Brooks, in turn interpreted his "attitude" and affected performance as Brooks just dogging it. Naturally, O'Brien pushed Brooks to an extent that he felt undeservedly and unmercifully "ridden." Then, he goes to another team, is properly diagnosed and treated, and turns everything around..........yet still directing his anger mostly against the wrong entity..........O'Brien.

Excellent incapulation, of a player drafted by Texans and who would be a starter today if properly evaluated and treated by Texans medical staff.

 

[infantrycak]

The only two years of decent OL productivity was due to the coaching. They coached up mid to later picks and they became better players. Now for those two years, the puzzle pieces fit nicely into one cohesive unit. Some of those pieces didn't perform to the same level once they moved on to new teams. Top OL Coach is common denominator and the Texans only had one in Gibbs for too short of a time.

It was more than 2 years. Gibbs was here 2008-9. We had good OLs 2008-12. Even 2013-14 were miles ahead of now.

The Broncos success centered around a bunch of lightweight but fast OL who executed a scheme that has since been outlawed in the NFL. Their OL's of past would have no chance for success in today's NFL and their new blocking rules.

The rules in no way eliminate running a traditional Ferentz/Gibbs ZBS. It in no way relied on chop blocking someone while engaged. The key chop block is the backside edge rusher which is still perfectly legal.

Not that we have a single RB inclined/coached to plant a foot and hit the backside. That left town with Kubiak/Foster.

We interviewed and should have hired Brian Ferentz but OB was bound and determined to go power instead of ZBS. Watson & ZBS are so obviously peanut butter & jelly it isn't funny. But no, "the system" rules all for OB.

 

[Texas Jake]

I am really getting tired of hearing this story. Again, this is all ignoring that Brooks suffered with very severe anxiety disorder which was never properly diagnosed or treated by the Texans medical staff. Instead, he was treated for the occasional end result............gastro-duodenal ulcers. Brooks would routinely get "sick" prior to games and sometimes before practices strictly due to the anxiety. O'Brien and the coaching staff, having to rely on the medical staff's evaluation that there was essentially nothing really wrong with Brooks, in turn interpreted his "attitude" and affected performance as Brooks just dogging it. Understandably, O'Brien pushed Brooks to an extent that he felt undeservedly and unmercifully "ridden." Then, he goes to another team, is properly diagnosed and treated, and turns everything around..........yet still directing his anger mostly against the wrong entity..........O'Brien.

Excellent point, Doc

 

[Bulls on Parade]

I am really getting tired of hearing this story. Again, this is all ignoring that Brooks suffered with very severe anxiety disorder which was never properly diagnosed or treated by the Texans medical staff.

With all due respect to your medical expertise, I've had severe anxiety disorder for most of my life. Since I was 10 years old. Also OCD and I was on antidepressants from the age of 15 to 22. I also played right tackle in high school and college despite being heavily medicated for obsessive-compulsive disorder and social anxiety. Not sure that held me back from playing my best. In fact, playing football helped calm me down and I could vent my anger and frustrations all out on the defensive end that I was going up against. Football is a good way to release that rage and feel normal.

Coaching is still very important. I'm not buying that Brandon Brooks' struggles in Houston had to do with that at all. I played through it myself. I still believe coaching makes the biggest difference in a player's progression.

Maybe Brandon Brooks is different and the misdiagnose that you explained is to blame, but overall, at least from my own personal experience, I tend to think that better coaching makes a better player. Which is why I've been sour on Mike Devlin, and lately, Bill O'Brien. If we had better coaching I truly believe that Brooks would have became a Pro Bowler here.

I don't fault Brandon Brooks for having disdain for O'Brien.
And I posted the link to re-confirm my suspicions on that.

 

[IDEXAN]

I am really getting tired of hearing this story. Again, this is all ignoring that Brooks suffered with very severe anxiety disorder which was never properly diagnosed or treated by the Texans medical staff. Instead, he was treated for the occasional end result............gastro-duodenal ulcers. Brooks would routinely get "sick" prior to games and sometimes before practices strictly due to the anxiety. O'Brien and the coaching staff, having to rely on the medical staff's evaluation that there was essentially nothing really wrong with Brooks, in turn interpreted his "attitude" and affected performance as Brooks just dogging it. Understandably, O'Brien pushed Brooks to an extent that he felt undeservedly and unmercifully "ridden." Then, he goes to another team, is properly diagnosed and treated, and turns everything around..........yet still directing his anger mostly against the wrong entity..........O'Brien.

I find this all incredibly interesting, something I can relate to because I've had issues in this area but they were more like the classic panic attacks that former Rockets player
Royce White experienced. However mine finally just ceased occurring after years and years of lengthening intervals between episodes.
Of course I feel for Brooks but I'm puzzled why his situation was unsuccessfully diagnosed by the Texans' med staff ?
Wasn't Brooks drafted by the Kubiack regime and didn't Kubiak kinda fat-shame Brooks about his weight back then on a couple occasions ?
But thank C&D or that summary review of Brooks here in Houston.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I find this all incredibly interesting, something I can relate to because I've had issues in this area but they were more like the classic panic attacks that former Rockets player
Royce White experienced. However mine finally just ceased occurring after years and years of lengthening intervals between episodes.
Of course I feel for Brooks but I'm puzzled why his situation was unsuccessfully diagnosed by the Texans' med staff ?
Wasn't Brooks drafted by the Kubiack regime and didn't Kubiak kinda fat-shame Brooks about his weight back then on a couple occasions ?
But thank C&D or that summary review of Brooks here in Houston.

Anxiety disorder strikes people differently depending on its severity. Some, as with Bulls on Parade can "work through it." Many, however can become entirely incapacitated.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

Anxiety disorder strikes people differently depending on its severity. Some, as with Bulls on Parade can "work through it." Many, however can become entirely incapacitated.

Literally, saw this yesterday. Two people who were scheduled to perform as a part of a larger group. One while nervous and quite obviously anxious was to play the instrument after a few minutes of encouragement and coaching. the other literally could not even stay in the room after the anxiety attack not able to function in any capacity for at least 30 minutes. Both are diagnosed and medicated and have had previous incidents.

 

[Corrosion]

Self quoting from another thread...this a case where literally every possible area has been below average. From health to coaching to drafting to retaining players to even good old fashioned luck. Total system failure is regards to OL play.

This was pre-draft posting originally

Careful , someone will tell you that you are a bad fan , you need to find a new team or new hobby for telling us they were bad at something they were bad at ….

 

[IDEXAN]

Davenport & Lamm @ the tackle positions last night and according to the stat sheet they give up only one sack between them.
After all the criticism those two guys have gotten last nights performances call for a couple atta-boys, right ?

 

[Texansballer74]

Give that line some props gentlemen. They played there ashes off.

Steel you see what I'm talking about. That was all coaching in which F'd up the young Davenport. He shouldn't have never had to switch over to RT. Especially after he worked on the LT side all summer.

 

[IDEXAN]

Give that line some props gentlemen. They played there ashes off.

Steel you see what I'm talking about. That was all coaching in which F'd up the young Davenport. He shouldn't have never had to switch over to RT. Especially after he worked on the LT side all summer.

Agree with that assessment Tballer74,let the kid concentrate on learning a single position.
I look for SteelB to come around before long and lavish praise on our young OT combo and heap praise and compliment the wisdom of whoever drafted that young Bucknell alum.

 

[JB]

Agree with that assessment Tballer74,let the kid concentrate on learning a single position.
I look for SteelB to come around before long and lavish praise on our young OT combo and heap praise and compliment the wisdom of whoever drafted that young Bucknell alum.

 

[Insideop]

Noticed that Davenport was back at LT. He had no penalties that I saw and for the most part did his job in pass protection. Lamm was still at RT and Rankin was benched. Saw this in chron.com: https://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-lineup-changes-Julien-Davenport-Alfred-13288924.php. They said Rankin has struggled with pass protection. To some, Rankin is an OG and this is kind of what I thought too. Maybe he could be used as a RT in some cases but overall I think his natural position is at Guard. Can't say I'm thrilled with Lamm at RT but I think the Texans are stuck for now and just want to get some continuity and consistency from the O-line in general. It wouldn't surprise me if they stick with this lineup, at least for awhile, and maybe try to work Rankin in from time to time when someone needs a break or gets injured. I just hope they don't put him back at LT and move Davenport to RT again. Davenport's natural position is LT and they need to leave him there so he can develop and mature into the position. JMO.

 

[Texansballer74]

People in here are so use to the line looking bad to point of not giving them credit when they finally look solid.

 

[JB]

People in here are so use to the line looking bad to point of not giving them credit when they finally look solid.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... don't be upset if everyone else see's what you see. I'm sure many agree with you... I'm also sure many don't

 

[Uncle Rico]

They did hold up better. Removing Rankin and putting Davenport back to his more comfy position made him playable without all the dumb mental mistakes. I saw more chipping and TE max protect stuff yesterday too so im hoping that the coaches have finally accepted the fact that this line will need all the help it can get.

 

[dream_team]

I was pleased with the pass pro, but the run blocking was atrocious. So different from the first two games.

TBH, this was the lineup I thought they should have gone with when Seantrel went down. I mean, why throw a 3rd round rookie, whom missed majority of the preseason, at the most important position on the line? Just doesn’t make sense.

 

[Scooter]

Are yall comparing our line to themselves or the rest of the NFL? The best thing our line did this week was suck in a way that avoided penalties, which is probably the success itsself ... Watson has to run for his life anyway, don't screw it up with flags.

 

[JB]

Are yall comparing our line to themselves or the rest of the NFL? The best thing our line did this week was suck in a way that avoided penalties, which is probably the success itsself ... Watson has to run for his life anyway, don't screw it up with flags.

OL did play better than they have for quite awhile... but still far from decent

 

[steelbtexan]

People in here are so use to the line looking bad to point of not giving them credit when they finally look solid.

Better, yes. Watson didn't have one of those got run over by a truck look on his face this game. The TE's were helping Davenport in particular out alot in pass pro which is a good thing because it helped Watson have more time to look down field.

But lets not give them too much credit, the team only scored 19 pts and got stopped on the 4th and a foot at the goal line several times. But I guess that's on BOB.

BTW, BOB's insistence on running the ball with Blue up the middle in OT was infuriating.

Those were 2 bad football teams out there last night and really should show everybody how far this team is away from being a contender.

 

[Scooter]

Better, yes. Watson didn't have one of those got run over by a truck look on his face this game. The TE's were helping Davenport in particular out alot in pass pro which is a good thing because it helped Watson have more time to look down field.

I know you're trying to be nice to the line, but that misses twice. The TE's were helping because they were in a broken max protect. As for that trucked look, Watson learned from his late game mistake against the Patriots - running around trying to make a play. This time he stayed in the pocket and got destroyed by 2 defenders as O'Brien drew it up, and threw for the predictable interception.

 

[Texansballer74]

I'm solely pointing out what we did versus the first 4 games. And both Lamm and Davenport were pass blocking a lot by themselves. Yes they had help when Crazy decided to only run plays with two receiver sets. And every team helps out even the elite Tackles when they are up against top notch edge rushers. Didn't yall not see the supposedly top offensive line having to chip and double team both Watt and Clowney from time to time.

Also they were up against one of the top front 7 in the NFL.

Like I said when you're use to seeing things in a negative way. You're going to miss the good because of it.

At least Steel gave them some partial credit.

 

[Scooter]

I'm solely pointing out what we did versus the first 4 games. And both Lamm and Davenport were pass blocking a lot by themselves. Yes they had help when Crazy decided to only run plays with two receiver sets. And every team helps out even the elite Tackles when they are up against top notch edge rushers. Didn't talk not see the supposedly top offensive line having to chip and double team both Watt and Clowney from time to time.

The difference is pocket. Did it actually improve? Was it at a level that Watson ever felt comfortable? Was it at a level that Watson could make his reads and throw within the pocket? Absolutely not, no, not even close. They got destroyed, he moved and made a play.

As for helping against Watt and Clowney, not the same. Tightend and halfback chips into their route or natural rubs, sure ... keeping twin TE's in as a 7 man offensive line, didn't see that. Didn't see it because it's counterproductive. Even if we could protect Watson with 8 (still cant) it's like building a paper towel dam - doesn't matter how many you stack, it's going to break. The difference is that we're not directing the flow, we're trying to overcome it with forceful ignorance. I know nothing about the EP system, but I do know that Belichick wins matchups every week. 8 players in pass protect doesn't allow for many ways to create matchups, it creates "Watson save me by throwing it to Hopkins!"

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Watson spends so much time in the shotgun because that's more his comfort level. But I believe this year it's been compounded by the fact that Martin can not only not create a push, but he is not able to hold his blocks pass protecting (esp, when a decent NT is right over him)..........paving the D a short road right to Watson under center.

 

[Texansballer74]

Watson looked very comfortable and composed out their last night. He wasn't indecisive like he was in the first 4 games. He bailed out a lot because his receivers just wasn't open. So he had to buy some time with his legs.

I agree with what you are saying Scooter. I just noticed some positives from last night games.

 

[Texansballer74]

Watson spends so much time in the shotgun because that's more his comfort level. But I believe this year it's been compounded by the fact that Martin can not only not create a push, but he is not able to hold his blocks pass protecting (esp, when a decent NT is right over him)..........paving the D a short road right to Watson under center.

After that injury Martin has regressed big time.

 

[Scooter]

Watson spends so much time in the shotgun because that's more his comfort level. But I believe this year it's been compounded by the fact that Martin can not only not create a push, but he is not able to hold his blocks pass protecting (esp, when a decent NT is right over him)..........paving the D a short road right to Watson under center.

Martin got absolutely crushed last night, I'm surprised he had the nerve to approach his brother.

 

[thunderkyss]

Davenport & Lamm @ the tackle positions last night and according to the stat sheet they give up only one sack between them.
After all the criticism those two guys have gotten last nights performances call for a couple atta-boys, right ?

Lamm had a handful with Lawrence. Luckily the hurry up offense took his steam.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Davenport & Lamm @ the tackle positions last night and according to the stat sheet they give up only one sack between them.
After all the criticism those two guys have gotten last nights performances call for a couple atta-boys, right ?

If you watched the game carefully, you will notice that Davenport all too often gives up on plays (a friend of mine had me review the game specifically for that). If he didn't get so much "help," it would be glaring.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Flowers, the Giants OT chosen with the ninth overall pick in the 2015 NFL draft, will be cut tomorrow if the Giants can’t trade him first, Adam Schefter of ESPN reports. I hope that Texans stay far, far away.

 

[JB]

Watson looked very comfortable and composed out their last night. He wasn't indecisive like he was in the first 4 games. He bailed out a lot because his receivers just wasn't open. So he had to buy some time with his legs.

I agree with what you are saying Scooter. I just noticed some positives from last night games.

And I thought BOP overly optimistic... you're astounding...

If you thought Watson 'comfortable' back there, I don't know WTH you are watching

 

[Texansballer74]

And I thought BOP overly optimistic... you're astounding...

If you thought Watson 'comfortable' back there, I don't know WTH you are watching

Out of the past 5 games he looked more at ease than he did in the first week. If you didn't see that, go get your bleeding eyes checked.

 

[thunderkyss]

Flowers, the Giants OT chosen with the ninth overall pick in the 2015 NFL draft, will be cut tomorrow if the Giants can’t trade him first, Adam Schefter of ESPN reports. I hope that Texans stay far, far away.

Is he that bad, or is there a medical issue(s).

 

[Earl34]

Is he that bad, or is there a medical issue(s).

He is ridiculously bad.

 

[TheKDog]

Davenport & Lamm @ the tackle positions last night and according to the stat sheet they give up only one sack between them.
After all the criticism those two guys have gotten last nights performances call for a couple atta-boys, right ?

Yes. And a big question to OBrien as to why he didn't start the season with them at those positions.

Instead, he started Davenport at RT after putting him at LT all training camp then puts a rookie who missed most of training camp at LT.

It's almost as if his goal was just to avoid internet criticisms of Lamm.

 

[TheKDog]

Brooks was still good here, even with his issues. He shouldn't have been let go.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

Brooks was still good here, even with his issues. He shouldn't have been let go.

Brooks became a free agent (contract expired) and made a decision he wanted no part of the Texans organization. Players have choices when they are no longer under contract.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Is he that bad, or is there a medical issue(s).

Both. That on top of a poor attitude that helped Eli get creamed, where for example giving up on his team the last game of last season. This is not even to mention his even poorer attitude when Solder was signed.

 

[TheKDog]

Brooks became a free agent (contract expired) and made a decision he wanted no part of the Texans organization. Players have choices when they are no longer under contract.

Fair enough, then I take issue with the things the Texans did to drive him away

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I am really getting tired of hearing this story. Again, this is all ignoring that Brooks suffered with very severe anxiety disorder which was never properly diagnosed or treated by the Texans medical staff. Instead, he was treated for the occasional end result............gastro-duodenal ulcers. Brooks would routinely get "sick" prior to games and sometimes before practices strictly due to the anxiety. O'Brien and the coaching staff, having to rely on the medical staff's evaluation that there was essentially nothing really wrong with Brooks, in turn interpreted his "attitude" and affected performance as Brooks just dogging it. Understandably, O'Brien pushed Brooks to an extent that he felt undeservedly and unmercifully "ridden." Then, he goes to another team, is properly diagnosed and treated, and turns everything around..........yet still directing his anger mostly against the wrong entity..........O'Brien.

After a car wreck in 2003 I came down with a case of extreme anxiety disorder while trying to coach a little league team . I thought I was going to die on the field because I couldn't control my pulse . It was the most bizarre thing I've been through . I was told to take a month off after my wreck and I decided a week was enough cause I had things to do . I can tell you tension is the worst thing for this condition .

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

According to PFF, J. Davenport rated a 43.8

 

[Max]

Fake news.

 

[Brisco_County]

He is ridiculously bad.

But you underestimate Mike Devlin. He's a magician who can turn garbage into injured garbage.