State of the O-line 2017

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by jradMIT, Jan 21, 2017.

  1. jradMIT

    jradMIT Hall of Fame

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    According to last year

    PFF rank the unit 18th overall

    I don't think it's quite as bad as the general sentiment, but definitely it needs to be better to pick up the slack for the qb situation.

    LT- Brown played much better than expected after the injury last year, going forward can he remain at the same level? Stay healthy? I somewhat cautiously optimistic he can be next year, but regardless his replacement needs to be acquired through draft this year, it's my number 1 priority in the draft a guy who can become the LT

    LG Xman - Good run blocker, pass blocking not so much, Does he have any more progression in him? Probably not, maybe he can be coached up.

    C - Mancz I thought had was a pleasant surprise, filling in for Martin he was the 2nd best Olineman on the team, question becomes can he move to guard?

    RG- Allen - big letdown FA acquisition, was getting his manhood taking from him against the run and wasn't much better in pass protection. What happened? Can you blame the injuries? This guy started for KC and was a 2nd round pick. Is it too soon to write him off?

    RT Newton/Clark - Newtons career might be over, he was serviceable at best, Clark was absolutely trash. One positive I can say about him is that he was very good at holding at the right time to prevent sack fumbles. This is the most pressing need and preferably needs to be addressed through FA with a solid starter.

    Nick Martin when he comes back can he or Mancz play guard? If you believe Allen was hampered by injuries, then maybe the situation inside is ok especially with another player added via the draft.


    I think Bergstrom is gone, any thoughts about the other guys on the roster and the PS? Do they fit into the mix?

    All in all, I think if you add a decent starter at RT and get something from Martin or from Allen next year, the play should greatly improve. Tackle depth is sorely needed behind a starter, I think the inside is in much better shape. Like to get some other thoughts.


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  2. Texan in Japan

    Texan in Japan All Pro

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    I'd say that RT is our most pressing need. If Martin comes back strong, then we have a few options inside to include Aboushi who did ok as well. LT is something we need to consider as well and if the guy we draft has some ability, then perhaps he starts at RT and eventually replaces Brown. Ideally, we draft or pickup 2 OTs this off-season.
     
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  3. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    This is merely looking to next year based on what we have now ...

    Brown is still solid but no telling when that nosedives, these things usually do.

    Mixed bag at LG, but no less than adequate on the whole.

    Hopeful for a big contribution from Martin. Won't not be a question mark there though until we see it.

    Trash at RG.

    Trash at RT.

    Bottom line - We need two new faces to come in (FA or draft) and hit the line running or we're in trouble.
     
  4. jradMIT

    jradMIT Hall of Fame

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    Can Mancz or Martin play guard? Looks like Mancz started out as guard in college and moved to center his senior year.


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  5. JB

    JB Old Curmudgeon

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    Must be the off season again...


    We need an instant starter at RT, depth for LT and a QB.

    And decent playcalling... yeah we definitely need decent play calling
     
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  6. Insideop

    Insideop Hall of Fame

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    Good post jrad!

    I agree Newton is probably done and Clark probably gone. If they look to the Draft for a starting RT they will probably have to get one within the first 2 rounds. This draft doesn't have any real studs (Thomas, Munoz, or Pace) that can step right in at a high level. All of them in this draft will need some time to develop but they could develop into a decent RT during the course of the year. A couple of names that could be there when the Texans pick 25th are: Ramczyk and Bolles. Ramczyk is considered by many to be the best OT in this years draft but he just had hip surgery which should throw up a bunch of red flags for any team both short term and long term! Bolles on the other hand, who played at Utah, is a little light (296 lbs) and is projected as more of a "zone blocking" OT. Not sure either of these fits what BOB is looking for.

    With the O-line now, Brown should be good for at least a couple more years and maybe longer, and XSF I think will get better in his pass-pro and as you stated he's good at run blocking so I don't think he is going anywhere. Again, Mancz has been a pleasant surprise with his play although I think he got off to a rough start like most of the O-line in those early games. His development as a Center could be key in moving Martin to RG or at least Martin might have a tough time getting the OC spot back again. Right now I just don't know about Martin and how good he could be but now Mancz has a whole year's experience that Martin just lost out on. Either way, they will have a good backup OC if the starter goes down. Allen will be back but in what capacity I don't know. I had heard he had some injuries later in the season that might have affected his play (Like when he came back from his concussion.) but I just don't know how much he was affected by them. I do know he looked awful bad in the first half of the Bengals game and gave up at least 1 sack. Poor Savage had literally no time to throw and was getting killed back there! The Texans can't allow that to happen again, and whether they draft another RG or put Martin or Mancz in there I don't think they can just blindly hand the job back to Allen without some serious competition for that spot. If Allen wins it back fine. But just don't hand it to him!

    As for others on the roster that have a chance to help, I think Aboushi has earned some playing time and could challenge Allen for the RG spot. Lamm is another UDFA from 2 years ago that has managed to stick around and is developing into solid backup who gets in there sometime as a 6th linemen on certain packages.

    I think the key for this O-line and how good (or bad) they will be is going to rest on who they get for RT this coming season, whether it's in FA or the Draft. JMO!
     
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  7. Number19

    Number19 Hall of Fame

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    Mancz at guard is an option. But his current weight is listed at 310. Allen is about the same. So this may or may not be an issue. Martin I believe is about 300. He undoubtably will put on some weight. X I believe is about 320. So the question becomes one of whether the team wants to move to the heavier power guard in the 320 - 330 range or stay with the lighter quicker guard.
     
  8. powda

    powda Team BLEACH!

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    Martin played guard in college as well.
     
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  9. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    Every time I really watch XSF I wonder what other people are seeing. I'm reminded of Boomer(?) talking about a couple of great lead blocks by XSF and then he calls up a replay to show one of them, and then has to struggle to find something to say. XSF's greatest achievement was not tackling himself on the play, because he was a mess trying to pull and certainly wasn't the reason for what Miller made of the run. He and Mancz spend most plays together double teaming, and left alone usually get abused ... Allan and XSF opinions would probably be swapped if they were used similarly (junk unless 2v1). I forget which game it was, but I re-watched every offensive snap and they (XSF+Mancz) spent 95% of the game 'successfully' double teaming run and pass, the other 5% was solo duty with both getting wrecked.

    I want to see these replays where folks are seeing the positive outlook on XSF as well as Mancz.

    Edit: I also wonder about those worried about the decline of Brown. Dude played this season on one leg and was still quite a monster. Not his usual self obviously, but we can hope that with the next 5+ months of rest and rehab he'll be much more capable (which would return him to the elite category).
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  10. TheRealJoker

    TheRealJoker Hall of Fame

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    As always it depends on health.

    Will Brown be even better with another offseason to recover? Or will age finally start to show?

    Will Martin return healthy?

    Will Allen make it through a season without the injury issues that plagued him this season?

    Can Mancz/Martin play guard and win the RG spot allowing Allen/X to battle it out for the LG position? Would moving one of them to RG be a significant upgrade over a "healthy" Jeff Allen?

    I think the only position that needs to be addressed on the Oline with a top free agent or top 2 round draft pick is RT. We've got a 2nd round pick entering the mix this season in Martin.

    Other than RT I feel good about letting Martin/Mancz/X/Allen battle it out to see who our best interior 3 are this season.
     
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  11. Number19

    Number19 Hall of Fame

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    Good analysis. My only addition would be to throw another OG into the mix - a third or forth round draft pick. I also think the organization may look for a veteran FA at OT, as you pointed out, but available cap space may dictate here.
     
  12. TheRealJoker

    TheRealJoker Hall of Fame

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    The only reason I don't see them doing that is the emergence of Mancz this season. They only activate 7 Olinemen on game day.

    If we draft another interior OL after spending a 2nd on Martin last season and Mancz being above average as a starter this season then that tells me X or Allen are gone before the draft. And I don't see that happening.
     
  13. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss MVP

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    [​IMG]

    Carolina Panthers FA started all 16 games at RT.
     
  14. TheRealJoker

    TheRealJoker Hall of Fame

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    Remmers started last 2 seasons. The majority of this season as the starting LT when Oher went down. Anybody have info on how well he's played as a starter last 2 seasons?
     
  15. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    Last year: 9 sacks allowed, 49 total QB pressures, 15 penalties.
    Not pretty.
     
  16. jradMIT

    jradMIT Hall of Fame

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    • This is from Walter football
    • Andrew Whitworth, OT, Bengals. Age: 35. 4 stars
      Andrew Whitworth would be rated at five stars if it weren't for his age. He's been one of the top left tackles in the NFL for a very long time. However, he just turned 35 and could begin to decline at some point in the near future.
    • Ricky Wagner, OT, Ravens. Age: 27. 3 stars
      Ricky Wagner looked lost when taking over for Michael Oher in the 2013 premiere. He's come a long way since then. The former fifth-round pick played very well at right tackle this past season and should be able to obtain a substantial contract as a result.
    • Riley Reiff, OT, Lions. Age: 28. 2.5 stars
      Riley Reiff was moved to right tackle this season after the Lions spent their 2016 first-round pick on Taylor Decker. Reiff has been a pretty average blocker throughout his career despite being a former first-round selection himself.
    • Ty Nsekhe (RFA), OT, Redskins. Age: 31. 2.5 stars
      I don't know how anyone can be a restricted free agent at 31, but it's a shame that Ty Nsekhe probably won't be able to cash out. Nsekhe took over for a suspended Trent Williams in the middle of the season and handled himself rather well.
    • Sebastian Vollmer, OT, Patriots. Age: 33. 2.5 stars
      Sebastian Vollmer has missed 38 games the past six years, including all of 2016. He's been great when healthy, but that hasn't been very often. He'll also be 33 in July, so his skills are eroding as well.
    • Matt Kalil, OT, Vikings. Age: 28. 2 stars
      Matt Kalil has dealt with numerous injuries over the past few years, and he's regressed as a consequence. He's performed on a replacement level recently. Perhaps Kalil will get healthy, but the Vikings can't trust him anymore.
    • Charles Leno, OT, Bears. Age: 25. 2 stars
      The belief was that Charles Leno was going to be a complete disaster as Chicago's left tackle heading into 2016, but he wasn't too bad. He's a below-average starter, but he's only 25, so perhaps he can continue to improve and evolve into a middling starter.
    • Austin Pasztor, OT, Browns. Age: 26. 2 STARS
      Austin Pasztor replaced the Kansas City-bound Mitchell Schwartz and did an OK job. Pasztor is a serviceable starter who pass protects well. He was a clear downgrade from Schwartz, however.
    • Andre Smith, OT, Vikings. Age: 30. 2 STARS
      Andre Smith used to be a terrific right tackle. It's unclear what happened to him, but perhaps the lethargy concerns teams had with him going into the 2009 NFL Draft can explain it. Smith has been awful the past two seasons, but it's difficult to ignore his talent level. Hopefully someone can motivate him.
    • Mike Remmers, OT, Panthers. Age: 28. 2 STARS
      Mike Remmers has plenty of starting experience, which is his best attribute. Remmers shouldn't be a starter, but he could serve well as a top backup swing tackle.
     
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  17. TheKDog

    TheKDog All Pro

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    Allen's only good year so far has been his contract year
     
  18. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss MVP

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    The way he played, he should consider every year a contract year. If it were up to me, he'd be unemployed as of yesterday.
     
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  19. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    Worth a tire kick, at least. Spent five years here in college and played with OB his first three years in NE.
     
  20. ObsiWan

    ObsiWan Site Contributor

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    Wagner and Kalil are the ones I'd take a closer look at
     

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