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Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
beerlover
Hall of Fame
No brainer if there but falling this way is the bigger question!
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Yeah, for instance I think Te'o drops into 2nd round.
You think he is better than Hopkins or even Woods? If so how much? If it fell this way I would rather go Short or Hankins. Its defiantly not a no brainer to go with Allen.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Allen is a #1 WR. Best in class ahead of Patterson. I would call that a no brainer.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
I don't know about that to be honest. I also don't think Woods or Hopkins are good enough to be top tier WR1. I don't think any of those 3 has the upside necessary.
Agreed, I have felt this way for a long time. Patterson is an athletic freak and all but Keenan Allen has a higher floor, and his ceiling isn't really much lower. Best WR in the draft IMO and the best case scenario for us.
Which was my point.
badboy
Hall of Fame
If Allen is 100% healthy it is a no brainer.
Meh. IMO y'all are over rating him and under rating others that could be available at that point.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
that's a very vague statement. I mentioned to friends when I saw his injury that it would be blown out of proportion & people will think he could fall to the Texans, so here we are, draft hyperbole. Closest thing to total package in WR class, that's my opinion you obviously have yours. He is not a top 10 pick but at least top 20. Crabtree is looking strong now but took him four years & he was the 10th overall selection & he had a foot fracture I believe so he couldn't run either, similar styles think he ran a 4.55 so that is about what I expect from Allen if he chooses to run. Dez Bryant is another comparable, with exception of his off field antics dude can still ball & is a playmaker he dropped to #24 & ran his forty 4.52. All three receivers have excellent vision & can create yards after the catch. Really hard to rate those three players against each other for various positive & negative attributes but I would say Kennan is the cleanest & most willing to sacrifice whatever it takes for the team.
In regards to rest of group, I also love Austin speed & playmaking ability. Maybe more like a DeSean Jackson or smaller Percy Harvin but because of his less than ideal NFL size he will probably go after Allen. Other teams besides Texans are intrigued with size/speed/strength ratios. Hopkins is a baller, tough, reliable but not a game breaker. Have a hard time differentiating between Hunter & Da'Rick Rodgers must be a Tennessee thing? Rodgers is probably the closest thing to Allen if you can trust him off the field? Great movement skills & game breaking ability, better speed too, just those red flags are hard to ignore, might work out just fine in a place like Cincinnati. Hunter is a first round tweener who reminds me of Lestar Jean, just lacks core strength, beautiful acrobatic frame to make highlight reel catches but how will he hold up? Patterson lets just say is still a raw talent. He is worth selection for his return skills alone but depending on his work ethic & intelligence Teams may be willing to take their time developing that natural ability. I just don't see him as an impact WR anytime soon. Quinton Patton is a personal favorite, plays with passion for the game which can make up for a lot. I think he will develop into a killer #2 for some team & if Texans chose that route I would look forward to immediate results, just wish he had more speed to stretch the field.
Anyway that is pretty much my take on Keenan Allen comparable both in the league now & next to arrive. He is a top tier talent who fits the NFL prototype for position.
Actually when I said " under rating others that could be available at that point.", I wasn't talking about other WR's. I was talking about all positions. There could easily be another player at another position that is rated higher than Allen. In which case it is NOT a no brainer.
1. Cordarrelle Patterson, Tennessee
2. Tavon Austin, West Virginia
3. Keenan Allen, California
4. DeAndre Hopkins, Clemson
5. Quinton Patton, Louisiana Tech
******
So that's how Banks ranks the WRs this year. OK, what would be your thoughts/observations on that ranking from the Texans' perspectives ?
In other words, maybe not necessarily your personal rankings of WRs, but given the needs of the Texans and their urgency to help AJ and continue their playoff push, what's your thinking about how the Texans have these guys on their Board ?
2. Tavon Austin, West Virginia
3. Keenan Allen, California
4. DeAndre Hopkins, Clemson
5. Quinton Patton, Louisiana Tech
******
So that's how Banks ranks the WRs this year. OK, what would be your thoughts/observations on that ranking from the Texans' perspectives ?
In other words, maybe not necessarily your personal rankings of WRs, but given the needs of the Texans and their urgency to help AJ and continue their playoff push, what's your thinking about how the Texans have these guys on their Board ?
We probably can scratch off Austin since we've already got a slot in KMart.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
Honestly, the highest upside WR in the draft is Da'Rick Rogers IMHO.
In terms of potential, that group of Tennessee-ish WR's is on a whole different level. None of them are what we would call polished by any stretch, but those are the gamebreakers. Gambles for sure, but wow. Patterson is the most ready of this group, then Hunter, then Rogers. Rogers has those off the field issues as well, and Hunter has some unknowns with his injury history. Still.
Guys like Hopkins, Allen, and Patton are guys that can step on the field next year from day one and give you 600 yds and 5 TDs. They are talented and ready to play. The thing with these guys is at the end of their rookie contracts, you'll still be getting 800 yds 6 TDs. Which is nothing to shake our heads at, but it's also not enough to be a WR1 and command attention from the rest of the offense.
That's why I don't want to see us take Allen, Hopkins, or Patton in the first. And no, I don't think Austin even qualifies for discussion for WR1.
In terms of potential, that group of Tennessee-ish WR's is on a whole different level. None of them are what we would call polished by any stretch, but those are the gamebreakers. Gambles for sure, but wow. Patterson is the most ready of this group, then Hunter, then Rogers. Rogers has those off the field issues as well, and Hunter has some unknowns with his injury history. Still.
Guys like Hopkins, Allen, and Patton are guys that can step on the field next year from day one and give you 600 yds and 5 TDs. They are talented and ready to play. The thing with these guys is at the end of their rookie contracts, you'll still be getting 800 yds 6 TDs. Which is nothing to shake our heads at, but it's also not enough to be a WR1 and command attention from the rest of the offense.
That's why I don't want to see us take Allen, Hopkins, or Patton in the first. And no, I don't think Austin even qualifies for discussion for WR1.
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I agree with "the highest", anyway.
Forget Rogers pot smoking and Allen's knee for a moment. Allen is the better WR prospect. Allen has better hands, is quicker, is more elusive, has a better understanding of the passing game. They are equal in straight line speed. Rogers is bigger and stronger. That's it. I would gamble on Allen anytime over Rogers.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
But see this is my problem with many people's analysis of Allen vs. Hunter. 1 guy was injured in 2011 had a great bounce back season in 2012. the other guy got injured in 2012, and still might have issues going into the draft. but when people are grading both these guys, they significantly knock hunter more, for having been injured in his career than they do Allen.Yes i get it, 1 guys injury was worse than the others, but i think he more than answered questions about the health of that knee this past CFB season.
Both are great prospects, but there is absolutely no way you can look at tape from 2012 of both of these guys and come away thinking that Allen is the better prospect of the 2 or even think that Hunter isn't 1 of if not the top WR prospect in the draft. Allen's projected max (700-850 yds 6 TDs) in the NFL is Hunter's floor.
Both are great prospects, but there is absolutely no way you can look at tape from 2012 of both of these guys and come away thinking that Allen is the better prospect of the 2 or even think that Hunter isn't 1 of if not the top WR prospect in the draft. Allen's projected max (700-850 yds 6 TDs) in the NFL is Hunter's floor.
Hunter has great upside; I don't ever knock him.
Allen had an ankle injury and missed the entire spring practice.
(The surgery needs to be taken into account.)
He also had a PCL grade 2 tear in the knee and missed a couple of games at the end of the season.
That one doesn't need surgery and has a 4-6 months rehab time-table.
So far, he seems to be on schedule.
Look at his production in his junior year; and let's not forget he accounted for 53 TDs in his Sr yr in high school.
Hunter had Tyler Bray (who benefited from a good O-line) throwing to;
Allen had Zach Maynard (who is rated the #33 QB in this draft class) throwing to.
Allen is solid in every aspect of the passing game.
With Hunter, it's potential, with Allen, he's already there.
Who is projecting Allen's max to be 700-850 yds 6 TD's? You say that those numbers are Hunters floor. No, his floor is way lower than that! That's the thing with Patterson, Hunter, and Rodgers, their ceilings are high, but there is a big bust potential with each also. None are as NFL ready as Allen or Hopkins.
So, the question comes down to this; do the Texans want a #2 WR that will replace Walter and is ready to play now, or do they want a #1 WR with a higher ceiling that might be ready to play in a couple of years and replace AJ? My guess is they want the #2 who can play now. We'll see!
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
He's not faster or more elusive. His (Allen's) understanding of the route tree is higher, but they are not equal in straight line speed. Allen is the better WR today, injuries aside. Rogers, red flags aside, is the better WR prospect. Allen is ready to play today which is a huge selling point of him, but he's a #2 WR. Rogers isn't ready to be anything more than a fly-route guy right now, but he is head and shoulders above Allen on potential. The gamble with all three of the Tennessee-ish WR's is that their floor is lower as mentioned above. They are gambles. However, like I said, they are the only WR1 guys. Allen is a very good prospect, but he is not a WR1 down the road unless it is by default. I'd gamble on all three of Rogers, Hunter, and Patterson over Allen. You can be fairly certain what you're getting with Allen, Hopkins, Patton which is great, but you can also be fairly certain that is all you are going to get from them. The gamble is on upside. That's why you gamble on the superior talent, not the immediate production.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
It must be said that Hunter's hands have to be taken into account. For WRs >40 targets, Hunter had the highest drop rate of 12.1% of all in this draft class.
In the NFL in 2012, only Early Doucet was worse.
Or watch this one.
Watch how he left Kenny Vaccaro and Desmond Trufant in the dirt.
And these two guys are very highly regarded around here.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwrel&v=Z700g-sndZ4
Watch how he left Kenny Vaccaro and Desmond Trufant in the dirt.
And these two guys are very highly regarded around here.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwrel&v=Z700g-sndZ4
Check ot Corrosions picks over in the TT Mock draft section,
Would you be happy if the draft fell like this for the Texans?
I know I would be jumping with joy.
That would be an incredible draft. Can't wait to see who he picks next. If I were picking next for the texans I would seriously consider one of three QB's or an ILB that is good at blitzing and pass coverage.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
As a whole do you see Texans going this route? Dobson pick in 3rd would be amazing, he was there so you take him but don't see him actually falling that far in actual draft, just have to wait & see. Know both of you love D'Rick Rodgers but doubt he is even on Texans board? You have both Brandon Williams & Jesse Williams available in the 2nd which allows you to take another position in 1st. I would have selected Barwins replacement Damontre Moore or 5 tech DE Datone Jones. Maybe Texans really like Hunt of Okafor? That way you cover pass rush, enforcer up the middle & deep threat with first three picks. Just a guess but pass rusher is now the priority pick/need left on the board. The polished ones are gone but you could still take developmental player with high ceiling like South Carolina Devin Taylor. That would help me live with this group because of its upside & uncharacteristic Texan risk
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
In no way am I making a comparison of player to AJ, but Andre didn't have great hands coming out of Miami. He worked hard at it. I remember plenty of articles about his extra work with the pitching machines to catch extra balls. Hands (to a certain level) can be taught. I worry less about that than most people seem to on here. Welker led the league in drops I believe and Dez Bryant was one of the tops as well. I think we'd all take those guys. Not everyone has Fitzgerald hands. If things are close, the argument is void IMO. That's something that can be (fairly) quickly improved with some off-season work and isn't that big of a gap to start with. We're talking about 2-3 extra drops per year. Total. Before improvements.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
If he is to come here and be a #2 and produce right away, that's the max he's going to be putting up in this offense with AJ still on the roster. That's why i set his max where i did. Furthermore, outside of like 1-2 teams with 2 legit #1 WR's on thier rosters, that's about where a #2 WR's numbers sit......
You're unfairly basing Hunter's floor on him being a bust just b/c he has the higher ceiling....Ummm....you do know Allen can be a bust too right? The bust factor doesn't just exponentially grow based on a players potential only...it's largely a by product of where you're drafted...in any event i don't thing the bust factor is very high for a player taken at 27. it wasn't that long ago that Aaron Curry was unaminously the most "pro ready" LB/player in the draft.....the guy is basically out of the league now b/c apparently he wasn't as pro ready as some thought.
Just like you say Hunter might be able to come in and play in a couple of years, Allen might be able to come in, beat out Lestar Jean, Keshawn Martin and anyone else Kubes wants to bring in and produce right away. If he can't do that or if he's out for any significant time before the season starts for any reason (injury in training camp/preseason) that immediate play & produce benefit is voided....especially with the what Kubes expects of his WR's.
In any event, I think Hunter's the better prospect b/c we stand to gain more in the short & long term if Hunter lives up to his potential. If he reaches 1/2 of his potential he should still be able to put up good numbers as a #2...anything else over that is gravy for us. If he busts we're screwed, but we'd be no more screwed than we would be if Allen turns out to be a bust as well.
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I like Hunter, but I like Allen more.
If healthy the same, I see Allen as a bona-fide first rounder with floor as an excellent number two receiver, and with potential to become a number-one receiver.
I don't know which guy has a higher ceiling, but Allen definitely has a higher floor.
Hunter is a borderline first round prospect, to me.
To be safe, I would put Allen between #15-25; but if he doesn't check out at his private work-out, his stock will drop for me.
Likewise, I would put Hunter at the top of the second round to be safe.
If healthy the same, I see Allen as a bona-fide first rounder with floor as an excellent number two receiver, and with potential to become a number-one receiver.
I don't know which guy has a higher ceiling, but Allen definitely has a higher floor.
Hunter is a borderline first round prospect, to me.
To be safe, I would put Allen between #15-25; but if he doesn't check out at his private work-out, his stock will drop for me.
Likewise, I would put Hunter at the top of the second round to be safe.
Well they interviewed him so I guess he's at least peeked their interest. I would imagine how he did in the meeting will determine whether or not he's on their board.
panamamyers
Waterboy
Just not seeing it with Allen.
I would rather get a guy that is somewhere in the ballpark of Allen in the second or third round and draft a different position where you would not be able to get near the player in the 2nd or 3rd round.
I would rather get a guy that is somewhere in the ballpark of Allen in the second or third round and draft a different position where you would not be able to get near the player in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Yep. Next year better for franchise QB prospects as well, imo.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
trade what to get that future 1st though?
Trade our first to a crappy team if we can; and then possibly package two firsts next year to move up.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=s5UsL4371Jc&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Ds5UsL4371Jc
Watch this and tell me that Keenan is not fast or elusive.
And this is his freshman year, alright!
Watch this and tell me that Keenan is not fast or elusive.
And this is his freshman year, alright!
Doppelganger
None
Patterson is a high risk/high reward player. Allen has a lower ceiling than Patterson but a much higher floor. Would be a much safer choice.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Bleecher newest mock post free agency has Cordarrelle Patterson going #8 to Bills & Keenan Allen #10 to Titans. Remember I said no receiver should be graded out a top 10 pick? Then they doll out Jarvis Jones to Texans - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ctions-at-the-twilight-of-free-agency/page/28 whatcha think about those shocking numbers? usually closer we get to actual draft the better idea we have who will go where, not so much this year its absolutely a crazy 
Señor Stan
El Guapo
Bleecher newest mock post free agency has Cordarrelle Patterson going #8 to Bills & Keenan Allen #10 to Titans. Remember I said no receiver should be graded out a top 10 pick? Then they doll out Jarvis Jones to Texans - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ctions-at-the-twilight-of-free-agency/page/28 whatcha think about those shocking numbers? usually closer we get to actual draft the better idea we have who will go where, not so much this year its absolutely a crazy
Yeah, I would take Jarvis Jones at 27.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Señor Stan;2147233 said:
Believe it or not, Mercilus had more "game-affecting plays" than Jones.
(Tackles for loss - including sacks, INTs, FFs, PBUs, and QBHs.)
You can balance the strength of schedule against the fact that Georgia faced one more "crappy" team, and that Mercilus didn't pad his stats against lower-division and crappy opponents.
Based on production, they are pretty comparable.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
27 Houston Texans
Keenan Allen WR California
Jr.6-2/206
Allen didn't run too well (in the 4.7s) at his Pro Day this week, but speed has never been his game. He has good hands and the ability to come down with the ball in traffic, and his recovery from a PCL knee re-injury is not yet complete. For what the Texans receiving game still lacks, Allen is the answer. With or without spiffy 40 times.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130410/nfl-mock-draft-5/#ixzz2QHxPI6E1
Keenan Allen WR California
Jr.6-2/206
Allen didn't run too well (in the 4.7s) at his Pro Day this week, but speed has never been his game. He has good hands and the ability to come down with the ball in traffic, and his recovery from a PCL knee re-injury is not yet complete. For what the Texans receiving game still lacks, Allen is the answer. With or without spiffy 40 times.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130410/nfl-mock-draft-5/#ixzz2QHxPI6E1
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
They think the texans would draft a guy that failed a drug test at the combine? This is just another example of lazy reporting.
I believe Okoye failed at the combine. Not sure though.
EDIT- Nope, he just told teams that he had smoked before.