So you like numbers and stats thinking that Kareem Jackson was bad!

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by 76Texan, Apr 9, 2011.

  1. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    In a thread started by EllisUnit, I stated that I have no idea how people like Football Outsiders tally their stats, and I do not believe in stats.
    Well, here are some different numbers from houstontexans.com
    You will have to ask Nick Scurfield where he got the numbers from.

    http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/2010-season-in-review-Cornerback/da37ff73-c8f6-4768-9cd7-ce46435d34d5

    Notable number: 53.2 – Completion percentage allowed by Jackson (50 of 94 passes) in 2010. It was the best rate among Texans cornerbacks, and better than the completion percentage allowed by rookie Pro Bowler Devin McCourty (54.5 percent) of the Patriots.

    Key splits: Jackson’s 53.2 completion percentage rate also compares favorably to some of the league’s top cornerbacks in their first years as starters: Nnamdi Asomugha (46.3 in 2005), Champ Bailey (47.8 in 1999), Charles Woodson (49.0 in 1998) and Darrelle Revis (59.1 in 2007).

    Jackson and Revis’ first-year starting lines are almost identical. Jackson allowed 50 completions on 94 attempts; Revis allowed 55 completions on 93 attempts. Jackson had with two interceptions; Revis had three. Both players had 10 passes defensed.
     
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  2. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    Notes: Asomugha was drafted in 03 but didn't become a full-time starter until 05.
    He did not have a career interception until 2006; ie. the whole 2005 when he became a full-time starter, he did not have any INT.
    That's 3 years with no INT for Aso.
     
  3. Rey

    Rey Guest

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    I have been saying it, but I don't think Jackson is as bad as he looked last year.

    I think a competent defensive coaching staff can turn him into atleast a respectable starter. The tools are there. The technique and production from others around him was not.
     
  4. Nawzer

    Nawzer Alienz

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    KJ was horrible in the first half of the season but he wasn't as bad towards the end. He clearly showed improvement but the rest of the secondary was incompetent on a historic level so it everyone looked bad. KJ wasn't good but he wasn't as bad as Glover Quinn was. Hopefully Wade Phillips can turn things around for those 2 guys in a hurry.
     
  5. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

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    Interesting stats. But I wonder how much his propensity to FALL DOWN had an effect on his being able to recover and tackle..........that could be the big difference when comparing the other CBs mentioned.:thinking:
     
  6. Rey

    Rey Guest

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    I didn't even look at the stats...Ultimately they really don't matter to me because I trust my eyes.

    KJ looked like a dunce a bunch of times last year, but he also made some damn good plays...I think that all the tools are there for him to be successful and I still blame the coaching staff for how bad our d looked last year...
     
  7. Hagar

    Hagar Drink up yall, its the Texans!

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    Does anyone have a link to those shiner whiner line blogs? I didn't save any of them and now can't find them on the web. I especially like the Stephen Hawkings TD run.
     
  8. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    That was a joke that caugh on like wild fire.
    I guarantee with you that when you watch the other CBs on our team, as well as the opponents (and league-wide), you will see a lot of slipping, falling.
    In other instances, the CBs donn't fall, but took themselves out of the play, which is worse, because they have no chance to recover.
     
  9. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    If only it takes no time at all to analyze the games play-by-play, I would have done it already.

    Problem is, because I like to be very detail on each play, it takes so darn long.

    I've been carrying along with people's notion that Quin was "our best CB" while in fact, I didn't see it that way (yeah right, you're gonna move your best CB to safety).
     
  10. TimeKiller

    TimeKiller Guest

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    Only a mo would try to spin Kareem Jackson into a positive light. Started (meaning, took a lion's share of snaps AND blame for shortcomings) on one of the lowest ranked defenses in the league. Near or at the bottom of every major statistic. Oh but Kareem Jackson wasn't that bad was he?

    Yes. He was pretty bad.
     
  11. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    There's no need to spin anything.
    Only those who claim that Jackson is a bust or the worse Cb in the league (nor on the team for that matter) are the ones who's spinning it!
     
  12. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

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    Quite a few of the D have been given a pass on the basis that the coaching was so bad. Some of those players will prove to be as bad as the coaching was. I hope that does not prove to be true in most cases.
     
  13. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    When we watch the Texans game, one of the things to compare is the safety play on both sides.
    If the Texans had anywhere near the safety support that our opponents showed, the CB play wouldn't have looked so bad.
    (and that's not even counting how other players need to play in different zone schems; ie. how the pass rush ties up with the coverage, and how the LB supports need to be like.)
     
  14. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

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    What about the stats that say the Texans were 31st in passing yards per attempt, 31st in TD pass allowed, and dead last in passing yards allowed? Do you believe in those stats?

    Every Texans fan hopes Jackson improves. Most Texans fans realize that Jackson was put in a position to fail. But Texans fans who believe that Kareem Jackson was good in 2010? That would be you and...you.
     
  15. SteveSlaton20

    SteveSlaton20 All Pro

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    your point? 3 years w/ no INT and he's still the best CB in the league.
     
  16. JimBaker488

    JimBaker488 Veteran

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    Fair point, since generally people agree that CBs are more valuable than safetys it really does make moving a teams best corner to safety illogical.
     
  17. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    I personally don't like the idea of moving Quin to safety. But, if we are going to get Aso, we have to do something to keep Quin on the field.

    I don't like the idea of moving him to nickel. I think he is too good to come in every now & then. May not be the most talented guy on the field, but he is one of the pure football players on the team. & we need a guy who will do whatever needs to be done on any given play.

    Other than DeMeco, we don't have many of those guys on Defense.

    Jackson had some issues, nothing we shouldn't have expected from a rookie. Anybody expecting him to play better than he did, in the situation he was in, is an *****. That includes anyone named Kubiak.

    Yea, he should start next season along with whatever FA CB we get, if Allen is still on the team, he should be the Nickel.

    Moving Quin to safety just tells me McNair told somebody to get off his ass and do what we are paying him to do.

    .
     
  18. HJam72

    HJam72 Hall of Fame

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    I don't know if he was with us all year (I don't think so), but I thought Jason Allen, who has 5 years of experience, was our best CB. Probably not in the long run, but he did alright.

    I guess maybe there's a certain lack of speed there, but he did well against those he could cover (speed-wise).
     
  19. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    QUOTE=Lucky;1676936]What about the stats that say the Texans were 31st in passing yards per attempt, 31st in TD pass allowed, and dead last in passing yards allowed? Do you believe in those stats?Every Texans fan hopes Jackson improves. Most Texans fans realize that Jackson was put in a position to fail. But Texans fans who believe that Kareem Jackson was good in 2010? That would be you and...you.[/QUOTE]

    1. You need to break down those stats and be honest to yourself to take out those catches that ought to belong to a safety, put aside those whose responsibilities are shared or unclear (since we can't be sure of the coverage call at times) before you can tell me how many of those Jackson can be accountable for.

    Unless you're willing to play 9 or 10 on 11 football; in that case, good luck finding a CB that can match your wanting! (the Texans did play a man short physically, and two-man short mentally.)


    1-b.As a general rule, team stats can be more reliable (even though one or two guys can screw it up.) At any rate, stats have no sympathy as to what kind of injury a team may face. If you think that our offense was hampered by AJ's injury, you also ought to think that the opponent caught a break. That means the opponent's CBs caught a break. Same thing with our missing Cushing, Barwin, Demeco, Mario playing hurt, etc.
    Lucky, you of all people, you who wants the Texans to draft a rush LB or two so badly, how can you put so much blame on a rookie?

    1-c. Where were you when I actually had both McCourty and Jackson on my wish list before the draft.
    Having my B.U.T.T covered, it would have been so easy for me to say that, hey, McCourty was hardly an item on this board last year, you guys who didn't see it can't blame it on me when the Texans didn't draft him!
    But why do I keep on pressing that what I saw between McCourty and Jackson in their rookie season lend me to believe that Jackson is a better percentage in the long run? (Same thing I saw in their collegiate tapes.)
    Eventually, I believe that the fans will come to appreciate the whole package that he brings; but please don't try to make a guy feel unwelcomed because Kubiak failed to deliver a play-off appearance. There's a difference between pay-me-rick and a humble rookie. Or maybe people want more controversy a la Cam Newrton than they are willing to admit, Jackson seems so plain like day-old bread!

    2. When I evaluate a CB play, I don't simply watch the time the ball comes near him; I also watch the time the QB can't go near him because he had good coverage. I also watch the time the QB missed an open receiver as well as the time a receiver drop a pass. I watch how the pass rush can help a CB; I watch how a CB can help the pass rush generate a coverage sack. I watch how a CB perform as a force man, stopping the offense from scoring point or advancing the ball on the ground. I watch how a CB plays help defense, making his teammate look better (in the meanwhile his teammates make him look like shiite). I always say the devil is in the details. Human eyes can't see them with our regular span of the eyes. I miss them regularly even in slow motion.
    Besides that, it can be treacherous determining what kind of coverage was in place. I am telling you that at times I just want to jump up and choke Frank Bush into oblivion even as I am a very peaceful and calm individual.

    3. Do you know that it took me like 2 hours for this post? (and others before).
    I do read what people has to say. I do consider back and forth.
    I do try to put myself in other people's shoes.
    After I've done all that, I would come back and do the same thing again.
    We all love football and I continue to approach it that way!
     
  20. silvrhand

    silvrhand Site Contributor

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    Sure doesn't help when you have safety play like this:

    [​IMG]

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NudC2w4WYorHqcslq7mRcwXkmIb0H25SCSJZN5Mr3xM?feat=directlink
     

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