So Dunta what are you going to do??

[HOU-TEX]

So what are you suggesting?? That we give into his demands and pay him all of this money that he isn't worth to where we're strapped for cash in the next few years???

Why don't we just take a knife and cut this team's wrist open then?

I've got an idea. Let's allow him to come in in a couple weeks, sign his 1 year deal, play this season with the Texans and re-evaluate him at season's end. Deal? Deal

It's an outlandish idea, but what the heck

 

[Kaiser Toro]

The ridiculous stats argument again....

THis is funny. The same people who are saying he's "average" and not worth this or that are worried about him leaving if the FO decides to drop the Franchise tag. If he's not worth what he says he is & he can be easily replaced, what the hell are you all worried about losing him in FA for?

It really is pretty simple:
1) He has value to us, which I believe most people agree, but it is the degree of value, based on the market, that is being debated, and
2) The Texans FO would be setting up an awful precedent if it were ever to attempt employ the tag again.

 

[Texecutioner]

I've got an idea. Let's allow him to come in in a couple weeks, sign his 1 year deal, play this season with the Texans and re-evaluate him at season's end. Deal? Deal

It's an outlandish idea, but what the heck

Well I think that's what's going to happen, and I'm fine with that. The only problem is that he's going to come back out of shape and not be all that effective and also in the coach's dog house for a few weeks most likely. It's going to hurt us and him. He won't be able to get off to a great start for the season, and it will make his negotiating with us or any other team next off season tougher for him actually, since he'll most likely have a very slow start to the season. It's a really pathetic and stupid plan on his part if that's what he ends up doing which I think is his plan.

We'll have a worse off secondary because of it for a few games, and he'll have a slow start. We both lose in the end really.

 

[HTown2ATX]

If Dunta came back today I would welcome him! No, he has no effect on how the DT's or LB's play, but he adds a piece that we need in the secondary. All I give a damn about is a winning season. If he doesn't play well, you let him go after the season ends. So, personally, if I were Rick Smith, I would just make the promise that I will not tag him again and at the end of the year cut him or sign him. I know that is not the way that it is supposed to work and that it gives leverage to Dunta, but this could be a hot seat year for Rick Smith IMO. We have to have a winning season this year for jobs to be safe and he knows that. I am a die hard Texans fan and have spent wayyyyyy more money than I should on tickets, merch for me and my family, etc......now it's time to win. Eveytime I look on the Chron.com comments or something, anyone who bitches about us not playing well, etc...are called fairweather. That is lamest BS I have ever heard. I refused to watch ANY football after the Oilers left and I didn't. Now I watch the Texans with passion and damnit it is time to win. Right now!!!! No more "it's just pre-season", blah blah blah. I will no longer accept mediocrity and I hope no one else will.

GO TEXANS!!!

 

[HOU-TEX]

Well I think that's what's going to happen, and I'm fine with that. The only problem is that he's going to come back out of shape and not be all that effective and also in the coach's dog house for a few weeks most likely. It's going to hurt us and him. He won't be able to get off to a great start for the season, and it will make his negotiating with us or any other team next off season tougher for him actually, since he'll most likely have a very slow start to the season. It's a really pathetic and stupid plan on his part if that's what he ends up doing which I think is his plan.

We'll have a worse off secondary because of it for a few games, and he'll have a slow start. We both lose in the end really.

IMO, he'd have to be truly ignorant to come in out of shape in a contract year. Unless of course, you mean out of football shape. Pitts hasn't done anything to get in football shape, yet he'll likely be starting Monday night.

The coaches have hardly anything to do with the business side of players, so why would he be in the coaches dog house?

We can agree about 1 thing. I too, think he should've shown up to get a few reps in a preseason game. He still might, but doubtful.

In the end, he'll be a Texan this season and it's squarely up to him to determine his worth.

 

[Texecutioner]

IMO, he'd have to be truly ignorant to come in out of shape in a contract year. Unless of course, you mean out of football shape. Pitts hasn't done anything to get in football shape, yet he'll likely be starting Monday night.

The coaches have hardly anything to do with the business side of players, so why would he be in the coaches dog house?

We can agree about 1 thing. I too, think he should've shown up to get a few reps in a preseason game. He still might, but doubtful.

In the end, he'll be a Texan this season and it's squarely up to him to determine his worth.

Yeah, I meant football shape.

And what I mean by the coach's dog house, he's going to be rusty and hasn't been on the field with this new system. I know that he just plays CB, but I don't see the coaches just throwing him out there right away when he hasn't even gotten any reps in yet. To me, that has all of the conditions for a slow start where he won't exactly be playing all that great. In a contract year that's really dumb from him.

 

[Double Barrel]

Regarding the "business model" comment, yes pro football is a business. But, any business can have a tipping point. I believe the Texans have reached that point. The status quo is no longer acceptable for the fans, players, or the owner. Win now, and Houston is the Texan's oyster. An 8th consecutive non-winning seasons will turn this franchise into the 21st century's Cardinals or Saints and cause the fanbase to lose faith. Every decision this organization makes should revolve around winning now.

Booya! Your last statement nails it. Key word, of course, is "should".

I have stated in many posts, and I will re-state it here DB, that I am extremely pissed off that Smith offered him $23 million guaranteed. That was, in my view, a totally ridiculous, Charlie Casserlyish, and stupid offer to make to a CB recovering from a serious injury. But he wasn't a shutdown corner to begin with. Not even near it. Yeah, he made the crowd happy with his hits, but his coverage skills sucked. But this why I'm just blown away by some on here that actually think Smith didn't, or isn't doing the upmost to bring him into camp. So you're going to blame Smith for going back on his word after that dumbass actually turned down that ridiculous offer, an offer that shouldn't have been made to begin with ???

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm not "blaming Smith" for anything/everything. I don't have a dog in this race, and unlike you, I have no emotions tied to the subject. I'm staying objective and letting things play out how they will play out.

I was just commenting on the disconnect in fans like you.

Christ I'm getting tired of having to spell this out...

So, where were all these GREAT offers that the Texans wouldn't match? There were probably teams that might have considered doing that for Asomugha, but NOT D-Rob. (which is precisely why Aso was set to be an EXCLUSIVE Franchise Tag for the second year in a row before reaching his deal with the Raiders) To extrapolate, that means the Raiders weren't even willing to part with him for TWO first rounders. The Texans, on the other hand would have been more than happy to get two first-rounders for D-Rob.

What makes me assume that the F.O. doesn't really think he's worth 9.965mil in annual salary? I don't know, a loose grip on his relative worth? What makes you think they thought he WAS? Tagging him does NOT equal them feeling he was worth it, only that they had to do it or lose him to free agency after the deal period was over, there isn't any leeway.

Three options:
1) Sign him to a new contract.
2) Tag him
3) Don't tag him, or remove the tag and he's an unrestricted free agent.

If you can't do a deal with D-Rob and his NEW Agent (that's right he got a new one before this fun all started), then you're left w/ options 2 & 3 ONLY. Only option two keeps the Texans "ownership" of D-Rob intact - otherwise he can sign with anybody, for any price, and the Texans don't get to match.

You never answered if you were high or not....judging from this post, I'm going with you just smoked something funny.

See, I'm not a talent evaluator, and I'm pretty sure that you're not, either. The difference between us, though, is that I don't play one on message boards.

The fact remains that the Texans made a very generous offer to D.Rob that would indicate a value that they have for him. He turned it down and they franchise tagged him as a result. They OBVIOUSLY want to keep him on the team, at least for the 2009 season.

You can accept the above paragraph as factual, yes?

What you offer is nothing but emotion-based speculation, and as such, I'm not going to get sucked into your circular logic vortex.

I honestly don't care, and will not care unless D.Rob is not on the field for the Jets game on September 13.

 

[gary]

Well I think that's what's going to happen, and I'm fine with that. The only problem is that he's going to come back out of shape and not be all that effective and also in the coach's dog house for a few weeks most likely. It's going to hurt us and him. He won't be able to get off to a great start for the season, and it will make his negotiating with us or any other team next off season tougher for him actually, since he'll most likely have a very slow start to the season. It's a really pathetic and stupid plan on his part if that's what he ends up doing which I think is his plan.

We'll have a worse off secondary because of it for a few games, and he'll have a slow start. We both lose in the end really.

In one post you say you don't think Houston should him the tender money but in another you you'd be fine with Dunte signing the one year tender.

 

[TimeKiller]

Who else will be thrilled with a resolution, any resolution?

Me.

 

[PapaL]

Who else will be thrilled with a resolution, any resolution?

Me.

I'll be happy to end all these threads.

Just Win Baby. Just win.

 

[disaacks3]

See, I'm not a talent evaluator, and I'm pretty sure that you're not, either. The difference between us, though, is that I don't play one on message boards.

The fact remains that the Texans made a very generous offer to D.Rob that would indicate a value that they have for him. He turned it down and they franchise tagged him as a result. They OBVIOUSLY want to keep him on the team, at least for the 2009 season.

You can accept the above paragraph as factual, yes?

What you offer is nothing but emotion-based speculation, and as such, I'm not going to get sucked into your circular logic vortex.

I offered the facts, you offer speculation and I'm the one smoking something funny?? WTH?

Exactly WHAT was the VERY GENEROUS offer that D-Rob turned down? You aren't speculating, only offereing facts remember? What was the signing bonus? What was the base salary per year? (Hint - this means I don't accept your paragraph as factual.)

I'm not in a circular-logic vortex, I stated that as a non-exclusive franchise tendered player, other teams could offer D-Rob a contract (which the Texans would have the right to match), or the Texans get two 1st rounders in return. If the Texans weren't willing to part with him under ANY circumstance, all they had to do was make it an exclusive tender, which they didn't do.

You act as if it had never been done, and I pointed out that not only had it been done, but it was done to someone at the CB position no less. By extrapolation, that means that the Texans do NOT value his services as highly as the Raiders valued Asomugha.

So, as much as I (or any other fan love D-Rob) - to the F.O., he's not above potentially trading away for two 1st rounders. So, who's playing the talent evaluator again?

C'mon DB - I love the guy, I love what he brings to the table - I always have. I just think the current situation sucks and he's doing himself a disservice by not coming in to get the reps he'd need even IF they had been in the "new" system for several years and IF he'd finished last year at 100% (which, by his own admission, he wasn't).

 

[Marcus]

Booya! Your last statement nails it. Key word, of course, is "should".



I'm not "blaming Smith" for anything/everything. I don't have a dog in this race, and unlike you, I have no emotions tied to the subject. I'm staying objective and letting things play out how they will play out.

I was just commenting on the disconnect in fans like you.



You never answered if you were high or not....judging from this post, I'm going with you just smoked something funny.

See, I'm not a talent evaluator, and I'm pretty sure that you're not, either. The difference between us, though, is that I don't play one on message boards.

The fact remains that the Texans made a very generous offer to D.Rob that would indicate a value that they have for him. He turned it down and they franchise tagged him as a result. They OBVIOUSLY want to keep him on the team, at least for the 2009 season.

You can accept the above paragraph as factual, yes?

What you offer is nothing but emotion-based speculation, and as such, I'm not going to get sucked into your circular logic vortex.

I honestly don't care, and will not care unless D.Rob is not on the field for the Jets game on September 13.

So who pissed in your Wheaties there Mr. High and Mighty. I guess the next time someone wants to offer their opinion on something, should we check you first?

 

[Wolf]

I honestly am not worrying about it ..I guess I got used to stuff like this with the Clemens thing for the Astros.


If he is here, he is here.. The games go on.

Sure I would like him to be ready, but hell haven't really seen him much the last 2 years so one more year isn't going to bother me any

IF the Texans could do something I wish we could trade him for a safety or something and end it.

 

[ChampionTexan]

Well I think that's what's going to happen, and I'm fine with that. The only problem is that he's going to come back out of shape and not be all that effective and also in the coach's dog house for a few weeks most likely. It's going to hurt us and him. He won't be able to get off to a great start for the season, and it will make his negotiating with us or any other team next off season tougher for him actually, since he'll most likely have a very slow start to the season. It's a really pathetic and stupid plan on his part if that's what he ends up doing which I think is his plan.

We'll have a worse off secondary because of it for a few games, and he'll have a slow start. We both lose in the end really.

That's actually the viewpoint I was taking of it, but as I think about it, I don't think him showing up late is going to have any negative effect on Dunta.

I was listening to an interview with Peyton Manning in which he commented that after sitting out all of TC and the Colts pre-season games in 2008 (due to injury), it took him till about game 6 regular season games (approx. the same amount of time as TC and the pre-season) to feel like he was back to form. Let's assume for a second that Dunta is on the same timetable (and I think that's conservative due to CB's likely not taking as long as a QB to get in sync).

Everyone who might be interested in Dunta knows that he's a holdout this year, and they know that if they sign him in the offseason, he will absolutely not be a holdout while he's under contract. Therefore, if they see a difference between the first 6 games Dunta plays and the last 10, they're gonna completely ignore the first six, and completely focus on the last 10 because they'll know what caused the slow start, and they'll know they won't have to deal with it.

Two things that might impact that. The first is an injury early in the season, as it seems like often times a "holdout" player seems more susceptible to going down. The second thing that might impact this is if Dunta never grasps the new system enough to completely play to his potential, but I'm getting the strong feeling that there's not enough difference between this year's scheme and last year's scheme (particlularly for a CB) for it to matter.

Of course if the Texans franchise him again, it's all moot, but we're talking about establishing market value.

 

[Double Barrel]

So who pissed in your Wheaties there Mr. High and Mighty. I guess the next time someone wants to offer their opinion on something, should we check you first?

LOL! Whatever are you talking about? I'm the last thing from high and mighty. Mr. Low and Apathetic is more like it (at least as it relates to an entertainment medium).

I could honestly care less if you offer your opinion. Just know that if you decide to quote me, then I will reply accordingly. See, that's how a message board works.

Glad you could take time from your pissing contest to make some meaningless point about me. I feel so...special.

Please, by all means, don't waste anymore time with me. The Texans FO is calling for your valuable insight to their operations and football talent.

 

[Double Barrel]

I offered the facts, you offer speculation and I'm the one smoking something funny?? WTH?

Exactly WHAT was the VERY GENEROUS offer that D-Rob turned down? You aren't speculating, only offereing facts remember? What was the signing bonus? What was the base salary per year? (Hint - this means I don't accept your paragraph as factual.)

I'm not in a circular-logic vortex, I stated that as a non-exclusive franchise tendered player, other teams could offer D-Rob a contract (which the Texans would have the right to match), or the Texans get two 1st rounders in return. If the Texans weren't willing to part with him under ANY circumstance, all they had to do was make it an exclusive tender, which they didn't do.

You act as if it had never been done, and I pointed out that not only had it been done, but it was done to someone at the CB position no less. By extrapolation, that means that the Texans do NOT value his services as highly as the Raiders valued Asomugha.

So, as much as I (or any other fan love D-Rob) - to the F.O., he's not above potentially trading away for two 1st rounders. So, who's playing the talent evaluator again?

Sorry, man, didn't see your post before.

I was JOKING about the high comment. Sometimes humor is allowed, but not always accepted.

All I was saying is what we believe we know to be facts.

But you keep bringing to the conversation the unreasonable expectation of any team offering two first round picks for a player. Like I said before, I can only think of two players in the NFL that might be considered worthy of that offer. Why do you keep bringing it up? It proves nothing. So, to continue with this line of thinking does invite a circular logic maze. That's all I was pointing out. (btw, has ANY team actually used this clause of offering two first round picks for a franchised player?)

Riddle me this: Did the Texans make a generous offer of $23 million guaranteed or not? It seem to be pretty well accepted around these parts as fact. And I'm pretty sure that you're operating under that impression, as well.

If not, then by all means, enlighten us as to why we should not believe that this offer was made.

C'mon DB - I love the guy, I love what he brings to the table - I always have. I just think the current situation sucks and he's doing himself a disservice by not coming in to get the reps he'd need even IF they had been in the "new" system for several years and IF he'd finished last year at 100% (which, by his own admission, he wasn't).

I don't disagree with you...which makes me wonder what we're talking about here.

I suppose I could go back, but that would require a lot more effort than I really wish to provide on this topic.

Honestly, I'm just trying to have fun with y'all, and while we can speculate and hand wring, none of this really matters until we see his performance on September 13 (assuming he's playing).

Must be football season when otherwise reasonable folks start nitpicking and gettin' all crazy on ya'!!
(another joke, man, calm down)

 

[Lucky]

(btw, has ANY team actually used this clause of offering two first round picks for a franchised player?)

I believe the Panthers (when Dom Capers was head coach) signed a tagged Sean Gilbert, and the Redskins picked up 2 1st round picks.

No team gave Julius Peppers an offer sheet this year. No team gave gave Albert Haynesworth an offer sheet in 2008. I guess that means they suck and aren't franchise players. The Panthers and Titans didn't even use the exclusive tag. So, I guess they really didn't want those guys, either.

No team coughs up a mega-contract and two 1st round picks unless it's for a franchise QB. To continue to bring up that Dunta did not receive a offer sheet is meaningless to this situation.