Serious question for the Vince Young supporters...

Discussion in 'College Football & the NFL Draft' started by texan279, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. texan279

    texan279 Hall of Fame

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    Right now I am neither for or against Bush or Young. But I have read some here that we have to draft Young, that he is so great, and that they would raise hell if our front office passes on him, and that Cass would be an ***** to pass on him. Well I have a question. Say we do draft Young because of the pressure from the fans/media with the 1st pick. What if he comes here and does nothing or turns out to be a bust, and Bush goes elsewhere and becomes an elite NFL RB. Then how would you feel about the organization? Just curious. And please don't say Young is a "sure thing" or that he "can't be a bust" because anything can happen.
     
  2. MorKnolle

    MorKnolle Hall of Fame

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    I'd say McNair would look like an ***** for listening to the fans rather than judging the situation on his own (and of course with Cass and Reeves)
     
  3. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    I'd say the opposite. Carr has had his half a decade of 168 yard games. When Vince Young becomes a pro bowl QB and we are stuck with 18-23 168 yards and 1TD, Bob McNair won't look so hot then. How many QB's have had 60 NFL Starts and never has thrown for more than a combined 2 TD's and over 201 yards in a single victory...not one time. I can name one.

    Take away Pennington and the Jets were done...take away Carson Palmer and the Steelers win last night. Good QB play is important...more important than finding a back who can be had in any first day round.
     
  4. swtbound07

    swtbound07 Jackass of Day!

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    shrugs. Drafting is a gamble. Our general manager doesnt have the best track record with draft picks. Personally, i dont think his opinion is worth more than the opinion of the fans right now.

    Casserly thinks bush is the right decision. I think Vince young is the right decision. Say young becomes a bust, and bush goes on to be a super mega god star. That would make exactly ONE draft pick i was wrong about, as opposed to the 20 cass was wrong about. Maybe the law of averages works out for him this time, but casserly thinking bush is the right pick is enough to make me do something else with it.
     
  5. Blake

    Blake MMQB

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    The only downside I can think of in Vince, is basically thowing away our next season, so he can learn.

    I know its a little cliche now, but I think weve invested to much into Carr. I think he has the smarts, and skill to be a good QB. He just needs a new playbook, and coach.

    Plus, RB's, and LB's are instant help. They can come in, and compete with the best.

    Hollings is gone. Wells should be retained, but probably wont. So that leaves, Bush, Davis, and Morency.

    I think Vince will be good. Hes a double threat guy. But I think Bush will be great. Especially when we get Kubiak to lead us.
     
  6. AustinJB

    AustinJB All Pro

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    VY was the major reason why they won. "Greatest game performance ever by a quarterback..." Texas has had many great players and teams i.e. Ricky Williams, Chris Simms (debatable), Cedric Benson, Roy Williams, Derrick Johnson, etc. VY transcended all of that. Even Mack Brown has been quoted as saying that Vince changed his coaching style. He said that Vince has "it". Only a few players do. Obviously the defense and other teammates helped, but who put the team on their back and made every play when they needed a big play all season? That is why he is special.
     
  7. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

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    Wow man, you sure you named them all? Didn't maybe leave any great UT players out who maybe went there before, I dunno 8-10 years ago?

    Vince transcended Cedric Benson did he? Well I take back all that mean stuff I said about Vince. He's the second coming and I don't know what I was thinking of.

    :brickwall
     
  8. Errant Hothy

    Errant Hothy Hypermediocrity

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    Dude! Do you know who you left off that list? James Street, Earl Campbell, Eric Metcalf (who was a STUD at UT), Bobby Lane, Applewhite, Tommy Ford, Saxton, etc and thats just teh players. There is no way, no mater what he ever does will VY surpase Royal in the heart and minds of the UT faithful.

    Get off his jock, or take this man-love-fest to a UT board.:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall :brickwall
     


  9. AustinJB

    AustinJB All Pro

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    Missed the point.....Vince took the team to another level (obviously). They've been on the verge for years, he just got them over the hump. As far as the 8 years ago argument....well that's when Mack starting building the program...that's why I listed those players.
     
  10. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

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    Didn't miss the point. Vince Young is a good QB and the Longhorns finally put it all together and won themselves a national championship. Good for them. Outstanding even. Vince Young didn't "transcend" anything though. He had a very good year. QB's have had much better years than his and ended the season with fewer wins, no Heisman consideration, and no projected top 5 spot in the draft waiting for them for reasons that were completely beyond their control. I was completely blind to his accomplishments this year. It's not as if no QB before him has done this and it's not as if it won't be done again. If he weren't burnt orange this would be a "Sean Taylor" like crush. Since he's a Longhorn it's worse and the man-love is extreme in here. It's like the Longhorns won the "Brokeback Mountain Bowl" or something.
     
  11. exclude

    exclude Veteran

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    Herv, thats too funny man!!:yahoo: :redtowel:
     
  12. texasguy346

    texasguy346 Mod Squad

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    That's just plain wrong Herv. You're going to scar people with the visual images you're putting into their heads.
    :bomb:
     
  13. tulexan

    tulexan Hall of Fame

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    How did he transcend the team to the next level? They have been one of the top teams every year since before Vince came along. The only difference between this year and the last 4 years was that Oklahoma was rebuilding their team.
     
  14. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, he got all those after he spotted Minny a 28-0 lead into half and then got smart and instead of chucking short dump downs to Davis starting throwing to AJ down the field. So he did throw for 372, but that's because the situtation allowed him, too. The Minny defense didnt get bad over the halftime, they were bad before, it was just Carr was complacent about dumping down and it took him an entire half to get smart about it...

    Arent you the one that said the Horns were gonna get steamrolled by the Trojans if I remember correctly in another VY thread a while back??? Now they are elite...I love it!!! lol. If you remember, over the summer when Mack Brown got his 10 year, a lot of people questioned it and said "he couldnt win the big game." Now he has won it and the whole preception about him has changed. If you take VY off the Longhorns, they probably don't win 10 games and they arent this elite team. He wasnt the sole reason for the success, but VY took a good team to elite team status.

    Football is a team sport, but to think one great player cant make a difference is ridiculous. You take Manning off Indy and you have a good team, not a great one. You take Alexander off the Seahawks and they wont be in the playoffs. You take Vick off the Falcons and the team is a cellar dwellar. Football is a team sport but a great player makes a difference...hense the reason they are great.
     
  15. tulexan

    tulexan Hall of Fame

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    But Carr doesn't call the plays. He runs what is called.
     
  16. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

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    The plays didnt call for him to dump down to Davis almost every pass play the first half. It took him an entire half to figure out to throw it to AJ. I remember that game because it helped my arguement that the offense is better when Davis doesnt play a big role. Carr had said many times till that game and pass that game that the coaches do not tell him to dump down the ball, he does it himself. I think we only got one or two first downs that first half so Carr put the defenses back against the wall...
     
  17. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

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    Shhhhhhh, you're spoiling the carefully constructed illusion that all of our problems are rooted in the the poor play of David Carr. You're going to mess it up and then we won't sign Vince!
     
  18. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    Carr doesn't get hit any more or less than Tom Brady.

    According to Stats Inc.:

    Quarterback "Kerry Collins" has been knocked down an NFL-high 136 times, an average of 11.3 a game. "Aaron Brooks" (132) is second followed by "Eli Manning" (129), "David Carr "(117) and "Tom Brady" (111).

    http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2005_4024169
     
  19. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

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    You didnt think I'd forget, did ya??? lol... :D

    When the offense goes 3 and out and gives the Vikings offense, with Moss, the ball in good field position, you're gonna give up points. The offense puts a couple of first downs together and backs up the Vikings, they dont score 28, or was it 21, in the first half. Point in case the second half. Carr decides to stop dumping it down, he decides because he has said the he chooses when to dump down, the offense moves the ball, scores, doesnt allow the Vikings offense to get good field position, and we hold them to 1 TD in the 2nd half. DC didnt let him, but played a reason in why they did.

    I wont even say that VY is on Manning's level, I'm just stating that one player can and will make the biggest difference if he is great. And I think VY has a great chance to be great.

    I dont think Carr alone is the problem, there are other problems but I think Carr is probably the biggest. Yes, the coaching isnt the greatest but Carr is making mistakes that some rookies dont make, one of the most glaring is his pocket presence

    Likewise for me...
     
  20. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

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    That stat takes into account time to throw, quality of the coaching and the very offense he's being asked to run, number of skill position players who are capable of making the play if he even does get the ball to them, and number of times your HC will ask you to do something completely retarded like sit on a 10 point lead at the half? I didn't notice that, my bad.

    Forgive me Vinny but the number of times Carr gets hit per game and how it compares to how many times Tom Brady gets hit is, by itself doesn't really tell the entire story.
     

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