Scrap and Rebuild

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by OptimisticTexan, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. OptimisticTexan

    OptimisticTexan All Pro

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    It could be a little premature but might be worth the discussion. If the team hasn't turned it around by the completion of the 5th game...I would fully expect McNair to finally realize that this group has given it their best shot and just weren't up to the task. First to pack their belongings, RS and O'Brien. Next to pack would be a case by case basis. Crennel would be promoted to Interim HC and finish the season. Next would be the hardest part, sell off the assets via trades to re-stock the draft pick cupboards. 2018 will be a big draft in areas of need and not being in a position to take advantage would prove to be the best way to prolong the agony. I'd be fine with this if the team could make it pay dividends like Luhnow and the Astros did.

    GM
    I would really look at Elliott Wolf who I believe is the current Head of Player Development for the Green Bay Packers. He's the son of Ron Wolf and has worked his way through the Packers FO. The Packers could be grooming him to eventually take over for Ted Thompson but this is still the guy I would pursue. He's young, talented and been groomed by 2 of the better GM's in the NFL.

    HC
    I would pursue Jim Harbaugh first and foremost. The guy just wins at every stop and never inherits a team already built for winning. If the Texans were successful in talking him into joining their organization...he'd be joining another organization that would be a few years away.

    If JH declined a very strong offer, my next HC of interest would be Bill Cowher. I believe BC would have some interest in getting back on the sidelines provided it was under the right conditions. Cowher is the consummate HC who demands and receives the respect of his players.

    I think either of these HC's could work with the young and talented Elliott Wolf. The beauty of the 2018 NFL Draft would be the necessary cohesion of a new GM and HC to make this first draft as successful as the one the 49's enjoyed last season.

    OC
    This would be the HC's choice with no input from the FO. Both JH and BC have been around long enough to create an excellent offensive staff.

    DC
    This would be the HC's choice as well with no input from the FO. I would only hope that either HC would have an interest in interviewing Romeo Crennel as a possible DC...unless Vrabel comes out of nowhere and takes this defense back to their standard way of dominating...then it would be Vrabel I hope they include in the process.

    STC
    Fire the staff and let the new HC find answers for this group.

    Prime Assets That Can Be Dealt for Picks
    1. Watt, sacrilege...I know but hear me out. JJ's could get back to his top level or maybe the injuries are beginning to add up. The biggest favor this franchise could do is get this man to a franchise that has a legitimate shot at playing in the SB. I don't think it would serve him to well to remain in Houston during a rebuilding process. Maybe the Steelers would have some interest in uniting the Watt's on defense.

    2. Brown, could peak near the deadline, especially if any of the top teams endure injuries to their LT's. His value could be even higher if he's still holding out since there would be no injuries or time on his body this season.

    3. Hopkins would be interesting. How would other teams view him in their offense? Texans would have to sell this as a WR who just hasn't had a QB available to get him the dang ball!

    4. Miller the RB might draw some interest from teams willing to make him their 3rd down specialist versus O'Brien's off-center steam-roller back.

    5. Fuller is a big disappointment and may do better with a stronger team not to mention he'd be a week or two from returning to play after the Bye.

    6. Joseph could be a nice addition for a stretch run.

    7. Jackson would hopefully be taken and immediately converted to a FS where he might finally blossom "all on his own" as an NFL DB.

    8. If the Jets were interested in giving up a pick for Savage, I wouldn't say no but every GM knows the Texans will not re-sign him next season and could sign him in the off-season. Like I said, I wouldn't say no if a team offered a pick.

    This would be my group of players and i think they could help the Texans at least get their 2018 RD1 and RD2 picks back and might very well give them a possible 2019 RD1 or RD2 as well. Between the 2018 COMP Picks and additional picks these trades would provide, the Texans could start the turnaround on a very solid note.

    Feel free to throw in your own scenarios.
     
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  2. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    Everything should be on the table at this point. But seriously doubt Wolf leaves GB. Brian Gutekunst or George Paton though..
     
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  3. Thorn

    Thorn Dirty Old Man

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    Reboot the franchise. I'm all in favor of it if it includes getting rid of BOTH Rick Smith and O'Briney, not just one of them.
     
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  4. TheKDog

    TheKDog All Pro

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    Those assets are...underwhelming.

    Yes Watt and Hopkins are great, but they are paid a lot too.
     
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  5. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Pro BS'er

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    How competent could Cowher be after spending more than a decade off of the sidelines? The game evolves. I don't see him being a realistic veteran coach for this team. Chucky on the other hand could be had, but I assume he would want personnel control and welp we keep spinning that revolving door of pain.

    I agree it's time to switch it up, but after the way the front office treated Koobs I wouldn't be surprised if all the name worthy coaches spurned McNair.
     
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  6. Mangler

    Mangler All Pro

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    Bring anyone here! We need our team to at least look like an NFL team out there in the field. We're the laughing stock of the NFL right now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  7. Thorn

    Thorn Dirty Old Man

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    Getting rid of OB doesn't solve a damn thing if Rick Smith isn't headed out the door with him.
     
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  8. Texansballer74

    Texansballer74 Hall of Fame

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    Ok im over my petty party now. I understand the first game was painful to see and talk about. But let's look at the glaring bright side before blowing this ship up. The last time we got embarrassed like this ( started the season off 1-5) we quickly turnt this bad boy around going 5-1 with B. Hoyer.

    Therefore, as crazy as it may sound I think we can rebound from that embarrassing game against the Jaguars.

    Short week in all.
     
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  9. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel BUENO!

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    I think as Texans fans we sometimes think too small due to franchise conditioning. We're so often focused on "baby steps" that we think it's going to take some big number of years to turn the team around and that's just not the case. Our owner moves in slow motion and so everything we do appears to happen at a glacial pace but that's not how it happens everywhere and there's no real need to throw so much away to reset the team. That may seem necessary but it isn't.

    Keep in mind none of this happens. We don't get to fire the GM (and our owner wouldn't anyway) and we don't get to pick the new coach (and our GM for life won't pick the guy we want anyway) and when it comes to coordinators we're going to be stuck with mostly no-names who can be thrown to the wolves when things go wrong. We won't be doing any of this and we all know it. If some of it happens it won't play out the way we want it to and we know that too. Still there's no need for a fire sale of any kind.

    It comes down to two sides of the ball and the answers for either one are very different. Offense is where the problems are....

    Defense is not a problem. Yes, they fell apart Sunday but this is a really well stacked unit with good depth and a few real gems. The real issues with the defense are a void at the safety spots, an aging CB in Joseph who will need to be replaced shortly, and similarly an aging MLB in Cushing who is also closing in on his last years.

    Those are the "Issues" but the "Question" is will Watt ever be the player we remember him being. This year we get the answer to that but it won't be for a few more games. He looks like a guy coming off a major injury. He looks like a guy who thinks if he goes all-out he'll hurt himself again. To me he looks like someone who hasn't played real football in over a year. When he finds out what he can still do we'll be the first to know but I don't think anyone else in the NFL is going to give up much until they know too and if he's worth a King's Ransom in picks then he's worth keeping in a Texans uniform. Clowney is going to perpetually be in the sore knee club. I don't think we'll ever see his true ability and that's a shame but if we can get at least one of the two back to being reliable and effective then we're ahead of the game.

    Vrabel? Crennel? Doesn't much matter. They're both doing the same thing and it seems to always look like a work in progress early in the season. Vrabel will get it together once the defense gels for this year. It will happen I don't doubt that. If it doesn't Crennel will get more involved. The defense has always been well coached here. The offense is the unit without a clue.

    That offense is an issue and the heart of the problem is the offensive line. That's really where we need help more than anywhere else. My 2018 off-season would be dedicated to solving that problem as fast as possible. In free agency we need to go out and get the best offensive lineman available on the first day you can sign anyone. Before that though I'd do two things as soon as possible (meaning this season)

    First I'd get my Duane Brown situation resolved. Without knowing what he wants I can't really say what I'd do about it (I've already said what I'd like to do about it. I know it's not practical to tell him to **** himself and the horse he rode in on). If he wants to play here I am willing to guarantee his existing remaining money and I'd even include another guaranteed year in 2019 contingent on him playing every game in 2018 or something along those lines. If he just wants out of here I'd trade him as soon as possible.

    Second I'd want to get Mangold's agent on the phone. Mangold is a C and not a LT. He's played 11 years and he, like Brown is nearing the end of the line but if he's healthy I'm willing to try and bring him in to anchor the Texans OL for the next three or so years. Great interior linemen play for a long time and he is absolutely a great one.

    Success at both spots gives me a lot of short-term flexibility (and I am spending a lot of money too I admit). This allows me to turn Martin into his backup and move him over to RG to get reps. It allows me to send Jeff Allen's ass packing after this season with $2.5 million in dead money and a $5 million cap savings. I put Mancz at LG, sit Filo down in a single-season backup role, and let the best guy we have left take RT.

    Then I pray to God (and I'm not a praying man) that the HC we get hires an OL coach who can teach because I have yet to see an offensive lineman appear to learn anything under O'Brien and his staff.

    BPA in the draft with a lean toward offense but if we can get help at safety I'm interested. We're not as bad off as it seems right now. We have pieces in place in most areas that need experience. When we say goodbye to Joseph we need Kevin Johnson to get ready. He had a bad game Sunday but he's been out of action for quite a while and he was sharp before he got hurt. When we say goodbye to Cushing and McKinney becomes the veteran back there we need a guy to put beside him. We have options on the roster right now.

    We're going to be fine if we can just get this fraud GM and this fraud HC out of here.
     
  10. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    If we're really on a full on lost cause season (not tanking, just honestly terrible) I'd love to win the Derwin James lottery..
     
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  11. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel BUENO!

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    Seems unlikely that he'd be around come the 3rd round but yeah, me too!
     
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  12. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    Ya, I'm dumb.
     
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  13. Seegara

    Seegara Hall of Fame

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    Cowher's calling card was timeless. Mental toughness. He wasn't afraid to call a fake punt or onside kick if he felt his team needed a quick boost to get back in the game or close it out.
     
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  14. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    I worked on something similar last night for now:
    As of now we have apprx $5,357,336 cap space for this season.

    Clowney trade bait: Texans eat his dead money of $7 million and no cap space. He is trade bait only and a trade partner would look at his injury history and residuals. To be successful we must combine him with other players and draft picks. We can only use team cap space of $5.3 (above) and not getting much for that. IMO= no trade.

    Lamar Miller trade bait: Texans eat dead money of $8.5 million no cap space.
    Kareem Jackson: we eat his dead money of $4.5 m but do get almost same in cap. What is he worth safety or CB $4.5 + 5.3= $ 10 million cap to use for help.

    Duane Brown: we have his trade value as he could start for several teams + we have his cap of $9.4 + 5.3 team = $14.7 which is a bit more to work with. I'd let him sit but that doesn't help team now.

    J.Joseph cut/trade: $6.4 cap savings dead $ 500,000; trade won't bring much but cap is interesting.

    Chris Clark cut: $2.75 m cap savings with $500,000 dead $. Not much but added to any above.

    JJ Watt 2017 dead $ 20 m but 2018 offers $ 9 m savings: not happening sort of like drafting David Carr's brother. It would have to be a spectacular offer and even then most fans will throw a fit. QB Kirk Cousins + RG Brandon Scheriff (I know but it's JJ Watt) dead $12.5 m for Washington . I would add in Savage for 3rd round 2017 CB Fabian Moreau who had torn pectoral lifting weights at pro day.
     
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  15. TexansBull

    TexansBull Hall of Fame

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    Blow up NRG we are at it. The roof is always closed, and was built at the wrong angle to grow grass.

    Jack asses.
     
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  16. gwallaia

    gwallaia Moderator Staff Member

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    Watt is off limits.
     
  17. banned1976

    banned1976 American

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    One person I will add to give the axe to is TE Coach Tim Kelly. The TE's, when they get the ball and start running they run like a RB hitting the line. They wrap both arms around the ball and get low which just puts their heads on a platter. Run like a receiver! Tuck the ball in your arm away from the defender and use a stiff arm to gain YAC, if you can. Or run out of bounds. Why do these guys not know how to run in the open field?
     
  18. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    I'd offer Duane Brown for Buffalo's 2017 second round Dion Dawkins OT/OG.

    JD Clowney for Cleveland's three second rounders 2018. Dead money $7 m but opens 2018 cap by $14 m. Some will demand our first we traded to Browns but this pick will be high due to 2017 rank end of season and Cleveland would not trade that imo. Offer now or after season since no players from Browns. This would allow him to play 2017 and hopefully show how he holds up health wise. Great year I would ask for 2018 first round and one of the three seconds.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  19. gary

    gary Hall of Fame

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    Doesn't matter who or what we want. Just what Uncle Bob wants.
     
  20. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    Why is that?
     

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