Rookie O-Line Draft Choices vs. Free Agency

[GoBlue]

I would love to dump McKinney and several million in the process, but if he's willing to restructure his deal, he's our best LG. At 2 million or less I'd keep him.

Washington must go.
If Wade is really on the books for the much $$$, that's a bigger CC blunder than Buchanon.

 

[UGA]

You cant just throw every olineman we have into the "they suck" bag and chunk em in a river.

Dont underestimate how bad this line is. Looking good relative to their counterparts mean little.

Even if you only wanted to sign say 3 new lineman (one decent free agent pickup, two draft picks) you have to cut 3 to fill them in. Who's it going to be? If we want bentley or hutchinson, you better clear out some decent money. if you want one of them with say a 2nd and 3rd round lineman draftees you better have money allocated. You cant just cut the basement level lineman to clear up money for solid lineman via free agency.

Unless your in the Mckinney, Wade, Weigert will be in charitable moods and cut half their pay camp... people are going to have to be cut to bring in new talent. Sometime you dont cut players based soley on talent, but their talent relative to their cap figure. Mckinney may be useful at gaurd, but at his age and cap figure why not use him to clear up money for these new lineman? Weigert is a waste of money, especially if you intent is to bring in a quality lineman. Washington is backup level, so why pay him 1 million when we can drop him for 100k?

But rest assured your not going to get Bentley and two solid draft picks by decidng to not resign Brown and Riley. This isnt fantasy land.

 

[MorKnolle]

I would love to dump McKinney and several million in the process, but if he's willing to restructure his deal, he's our best LG. At 2 million or less I'd keep him.

Washington must go.
If Wade is really on the books for the much $$$, that's a bigger CC blunder than Buchanon.

If McKinney is willing to cut his salary at least in half then I'd be open to keeping him, as he is still an OK guard, but we still need to draft at least one OG and McKinney needs to go if he won't cut his salary substantially. Wiegert is still pretty goot at guard and only has one year left, so I say we keep him for that year. If we can bring in Bentley, we'd have Pitts, Wiegert, Bentley, McKinney, Wade as of this moment. I don't like Wade playing, he has a big contract but I don't think he should play OT anymore, at least as a starter, so we need to draft a OT that would be good enough to start next year and maybe move to LT in a year. I'd look to draft a OG to compete with McKinney for a starting spot and replace him in a year, and maybe add another OG in the 4th or 5th round to groom for a year and replace Wiegert in a year, and maybe look for a OC if we can't get Bentley.

 

[UGA]

I would love to dump McKinney and several million in the process, but if he's willing to restructure his deal, he's our best LG. At 2 million or less I'd keep him.

Again, i dont see him taking a more then 50% cut in his contract. he stands to make 4.5 million if we keep him. Why would he take 2 million? He gets 800k to be released and could find a marginal contract elsewhere. Its easy for us to play hometown deal with these guys money, but if you stand to make 4.5 mil.. restructuring probably ends at 3million.. not 1.5

If Wade is really on the books for the much $$$, that's a bigger CC blunder than Buchanon.

He is, and its a major blow to the ability for us to revamp the line. He costs 6 million to cut and 5 million to keep. He has us by the you know whats, and he isnt going to restructure his deal at all. Why would he, or anyone else? Either way he is making 5 or 6 million and he doesnt need to bend for anyone. A player restructures his deal if he is either at the end of his career and might want to stay put (possibly Mckinney) or is making a killing as a star and will sacrifice a bit short term to see some more talent around him. Wade is neither. He is young, sitting on a contract he wont get again and will take his money and run with it. He may have a place in this league as a backup with a league minimum, which is all the more reason why hell want to get ALL of his money now and hope at some point hell either improve or dupe another team to pay him stupidly. I dont blame him, id do the exact same thing.

 

[Jack Bauer]

He gets 800k to be released and could find a marginal contract elsewhere.

I may be mistaken because I leave the money details to others, but the money that would count against the cap would be the bonus he has already received. If he is cut, he will not receive any additional money. aj or MorKnolle correct me if I am wrong.

In addition McKinney has several business ties that would make it beneficial for him to remain in Houston. I think he is still a good guard (NOT center) and would be worth the restructuring to keep him around.

 

[UGA]

I may be mistaken because I leave the money details to others, but the money that would count against the cap would be the bonus he has already received. If he is cut, he will not receive any additional money. aj or MorKnolle correct me if I am wrong.

In addition McKinney has several business ties that would make it beneficial for him to remain in Houston. I think he is still a good guard (NOT center) and would be worth the restructuring to keep him around.

he'll count 800k against the cap if we cut him. hell count 4.5 million against the cap if we keep him.

and only mckinney can say wether it is worth restructuring his deal. but if people think he is going to resign for 1.5 when he stands at 4.5 right now is crazy. thats not "restructuring".

 

[Grid]

Cut Washington, Brown, and Weary and you have 3 spots open for new linemen. If ya want to keep Weary.. then either cut Wiegert, McKinney, or take one extra lineman.

We do not need to go to the extreme and cut every olineman. We have some good linemen.. we just dont have ENOUGH good linemen.

 

[edo783]

but if people think he is going to resign for 1.5 when he stands at 4.5 right now is crazy. thats not "restructuring".

The answer to that is...Yes, or hit the bricks. He would be lucky to get that much (1.5 to 2 Mill) on the open market. We cut him, he gets didly squat unless he gets another gig with another team. We get charged 800K for the prorated bonus, but he gets zilch.

 

[UGA]

Cut Washington, Brown, and Weary and you have 3 spots open for new linemen.

LOL

Its not just about having spots, its about having money to upgrade them. If it was as easy as dropping a league minimum guy and picking up a pro bowler we'd be set. but back in the real world...

 

[UGA]

The answer to that is...Yes, or hit the bricks. He would be lucky to get that much (1.5 to 2 Mill) on the open market. We cut him, he gets didly squat unless he gets another gig with another team. We get charged 800K for the prorated bonus, but he gets zilch.

again, he will go elsewhere or retire before he entertains 1.5 from us when he is due 4.5

restructuring is not a 65% decrease in pay. he said he is open to restructuring his existing contract, not being bent over. he would probably retire before he took 1.5 from us. he's financially set anyway. his idea of restructuring is more along the lines of 3 mil this year with the additional 1.5 spread into another year. thats restructuring. he didnt say he was for "deducting".

 

[UGA]

for the record id save all the hassle and just cut him. we free up a good amount of money by just parting ways.

 

[Grid]

obviously the cap has to be considered. But McKinney is old and on his way out.. if not this season then probably next. Todd Wade will be cut as soon as it is cap friendly to do so.

We may have to take a big cap hit on our oline for a season or two.. but while we are trying to get a working Oline.. I dont think you can afford to cut your best linemen.

Besides.. at least 2 of our new Olinemen would be rookies and their contract can be manipulated to fit the budget for the first 2-3 seasons. And more than one Olineman would probably be willing to renegotiate his contract to free up some space when we need it.

 

[sprtsfanatic]

I'm all for cutting Mckinney...I've been wanting him gone for the past 2 yrs now. On another note...since the center position has been brought up several times in this post....what do y'all think about drafting Eslinger from MN (ofcourse after landing Bentley in FA from NO) and having him learn the ropes from Bentley and how far down do you think he could slip in the draft?

 

[Grid]

I think if we sign Bentley.. we dont need another Center. Bentley and Hodgdon is enough depth there. Especially if we hold onto McKinney to play guard.

I really want to see us get a tackle that slides to #33..and then pick up a good guard like Max Jean-Gilles.. but Jean-Gilles will probably be gone by the time our pick comes up at #65.. so we might be forced to either pass on him, or package our two 3rds to move back into the second and grab him.

 

[UGA]

obviously the cap has to be considered. But McKinney is old and on his way out.. if not this season then probably next.

What does that have to do with us this year and our ability to make solid decision for the future?

Todd Wade will be cut as soon as it is cap friendly to do so.

You cant be serious... im sure that hasnt crossed anyones mind until now

We may have to take a big cap hit on our oline for a season or two.. but while we are trying to get a working Oline.. I dont think you can afford to cut your best linemen.

We dont have "best" linemen. We have a couple that are better then the other slugs. We have a horrible line, and your not accepting it. Reshuffling second rate players isnt going to help, and weve tried that before.

And more than one Olineman would probably be willing to renegotiate his contract to free up some space when we need it.

yeah because we all know people love to give up money they have coming to them. are you serious dude? its not a players job to adjust his contract to the teams need, its the teams responsibility to sign contracts that represent the talent level of said player. if they dont, then its the teams job to make sound decisions and cut ties with said players when their talent or cap hit hurt the team.

 

[michaelm]

I say we cut McKinney.
He may decide to shop around, and if offers are not good he may resign with us for substantially less. He may opt for retirement, but if he signs a one year deal in the $1mil +or- range, he may be worth having around.

 

[Grid]

Quit being such a pessimist and try to see the whole picture.

What does that have to do with us this year and our ability to make solid decision for the future?

Because we wont have his cap hit on the books too much longer. If we can squeeze everyone in for another season, he will probably be retiring or moving on next year, and that will give us some more leeway.

You cant be serious...

uh..yah..i am. Do you want to explain that comment or are you just saying that to be disagreeable? Why wouldnt we cut Wade? What has he done to earn his pay?

We dont have "best" linemen. We have a couple that are better then the other slugs. We have a horrible line, and your not accepting it. Reshuffling second rate players isnt going to help, and weve tried that before.

Yah.. Steve Foley sucked too huh? We do have BEST linemen.. Pitts would be a starter on any team in the league. But that isnt what i meant by best linemen anyway.. when I said best linemen..i meant OUR best linemen.. meaning you dont cut everyone on the line because there is no freakin way that we could replace all of them with more talented players. I know that to the ignorant onlooker, you would prefer to see us fire the whole line just to be spiteful, but that would NOT be in the best interest of the team.. and it takes a blind man to not see that we have some players on our line that are starter material.

As for reshuffling not working before.. our whole coaching staff wasnt working... so im not going to lay the blame entirely on the line when so many of our other problems can be traced back to the coaches.

Wake up. Pitts is a great lineman and a more than servicable LT. Hodgdon looked very good at Center when he was in, and I think we could start him next season. He may not quite be 100% ready to start, but I think he could handle it.

McKinney has NEVER BEEN A CENTER. We made him a Center. Guard and Center are two completely different positions and McKinney did NOT look bad when he played Guard. Wiegert also didnt look bad at guard. One of these two guys should be good enough to take either the RG or LG spot.

That leaves TWO positions that need filling.. one Guard..and the RT spot. You, im sure, think that Wand is a bust.. but ask some of the knowledgeable fans around here and you will find that most everyone agrees that he did not get a fair look and they would like to see how he looks at RT. So, if Wand manages to become our starting RT, then that leaves only ONE guard position to fill.. and the rest is depth. I wouldnt exactly call that reshuffling. That is putting in one rookie, moving one player to his natural position, and giving an honest look at a player that didnt look terrible at LT. I wouldnt call that "reshuffling" I would call that "refining" and "intelligent use of your existing talent"

yeah because we all know people love to give up money they have coming to them. are you serious dude? its not a players job to adjust his contract to the teams need, its the teams responsibility to sign contracts that represent the talent level of said player. if they dont, then its the teams job to make sound decisions and cut ties with said players when their talent or cap hit hurt the team

then why do players renegotiate their contracts every offseason? Ill tell you why.. because players want to win.. or because they didnt live up to expectations and dont want to be cut.. or, most importantly, because it doesnt hurt them to do so.

If a player is going to make 9 million over the next three seasons.. 3 million each year.. it does not hurt him to renegotiate and take 2 million this year.. 2 million next year.. and 5 million in guaranteed money in the 3rd year. All he is doing is delaying his paycheck in order to help the team bring in the talent they need to compete. MANY players are willing to do renegotiating like that.