Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Doom Capers, Aug 28, 2004.
I have came to the conclusion that if we have to play Ragone at all this season, we are screwed.
That's strange, I came to that same conclusion after the first pre-season game. I want Mike Quinn back.
hehe, I have to say the 3-misnaps drive was perhaps one of the most pathetic ever--preseason or not. To be honest I was cracking up laughing after missnap #2, while saying a quick prayer to Carr's health this year.
Symons needs to be ready.
Let Ragone spend some time with the 1st team, or at least 2nd team, before passing judgement on him. No QB could have fared well behind the Texans 3rd string O-line.
But he had some pretty decent targets last year when he took the field against Jacksonville and Tamp Bay.
Banks was equally pathetic last night imo. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. He looked totally out of it.
At the last public practice I watched from about 30 feet away as Chris Palmer "coached" Dave Ragone on a 5 step drop and various timing routes. Either Ragone wasn't having a good day or he's still sorely lacking in fundamentals. Palmer was having to count out loud 1-2-3-4-5! as Ragone dropped back because he eiher was cutting it short or he was "hopping" on the 5th step, making his throws sail wildly. This was with no pass rush - just a center, Ragone, and a WR. Palmer was hot, literally and figuratively and the only thing that saved Ragone that day was the air horn that ended that set of drills.
Give Jammal some reps at QB.
At least he will stand a chance when he has to run for his life behind a makeshift line.
Guess you can add me to the list of people who had Ragone overrated.
I disagree that Jacksonville and Tampa were fair tests.
In one of the games, none of the current D-line were playing (no Baire, plus Payne and Walker out) AND only one of the current O-line was playing his current position.
In terms of targets, Andre Johnson dropped several big, catchable balls and Domanick didn't play in one game and Hollings looked horrible. Hollings looked better last night behind a real O-line ... why not say Ragone would also improve behind a real O-line ... with real support.
I think Carr is special and better (not surprising since Carr was a first overall pick and Ragone was approx. the 100th), but Carr has also had a lot more opportuniity to develop. Don't give up on Ragone yet.
Dave really is still an incomplete with me, and I really hope it stays that way. He might be a capable backup one day, but I don't know. On the other hand, Banks is our backup, and his lack of accuracy is alarming. On the bootleg, he had Sloan Thomas wide open on first down, and just flat out underthrew him by four or five feet. Drive killing, momentum breaking incompletion. He made a nice throw into coverage to Murphy but the catch was the highlight. What about the interception? Think he was confused? Let's just hope that he has the clipboard all year, and our number 1 pick stays healthy. He has definately looked like a #1 pick.
Ragone's bad. Others may hold out hope for him to be second-string material someday, but I don't. The most "real" (if you can call them that) reps he's going to get in 2004 (Lord willing!!) are in the preseason. He shouldn't look this poor.
Were the NFL not so desparately thin at QB these days, I'd say cut him and sign a free agent, but who would we sign? Banks is playing just as badly, but at least he proved he could win games last year. So we have to keep Ragone's tragic-comedy drive in the 4th quarter at Denver in perspective: there are some teams out there who have guys just as bad (maybe worse) at QB on their roster right now. (Anybody looked at the COLTS' QB depth chart lately? ACK!)
Pray for David Carr.
So to summarize...Ragone was basically a wasted pick. I know you beloved Texans think David Carr hung the moon--but, you shouldn't be so quick to judge a sophomore QB. He has not had adequate playing time to prove what he can do. You stick him in a game where you're already getting beat. He plays 4-1/2 minutes with a backup O-line. What do you people want? Miracles?
I mean, David Carr was so glorious his first year there right? He was ranked the 2nd worst QB in NFL in 2002. You say that's not a fair judgement, right? And why is that? Because he played behind a young, insufficient O line? My point precisely.
And yes, biased I am. I am from Louisville, I watched Ragone mature into an excellent QB at the college level. With the right team, he will be an excellent QB at the NFL level. I just hope it is with someone who gives him the time to prove what he is actually capable of doing with a football. Clearly, you can not.
Let the smack begin...I know I'm asking for it...But, for what it's worth..that's my opinion.
Ragone has not made as much progress as I hoped to this point, but to say he is, and will always be a bust is way premature imo. Let's not forget that Trent Dilfer was a dog, Brett Favre was a drunk who wouldn't amount to a hill of beans, Rich Gannon was a wasted pick, and Kerry Collins' boosters in North Carolina could have all fit in a mini-van. I'll give you a hint as to what all of them accomplished later in their careers, but I will say it has something to do with a bowl or some kind.
They have changed Ragone's mechanics this offseason, and he is a work in progress. Sure, we are in trouble if Ragone has to become the starter this year. Can any of you brainics identify a team in the league that wouldn't be if they had to rely on their 3rd QB for an extended period?
Ragone has not had a fair chance to develop here in Houston. David Carr is another young QB who is the cornerstone of the team, so he is naturally going to get as many reps as possible to speed his development...especially with the first team. Tony Banks is the second priority because he is the backup and needs to stay sharp in case Carr goes down with an injury. Ragone gets reps during the preseason because of the high number of players in camp, but I doubt he gets very many reps with the first team.
During the regular season practices are shorter and there are a lot fewer reps available with the first team. Carr probably gets about 80-90% of the snaps with the first team during a typical game week and Banks probably gets the rest to stay sharp and a little familiar with the starters. Ragone is limited to scout team work. If Carr were to get injured, Banks might end up getting all the snaps with the first team that week to prepare to play.
I think some of the criticism of Ragone has been because fans were expecting him to progress along the same growth rate as David Carr. However, look at how much time Carr had with the first team as a rookie compared to Ragone. From the first day of camp, Carr was the starter and getting the starter's share of snaps with the first team. On Ragone's first day of camp he was battling for the #3 spot and getting a lot fewer reps. Once the regular season began Ragone was probably not getting much work, especially not with the first unit. He certainly never had the majority of snaps with the first team until the two weeks he was the starting quarterback. And then he was thrown to the wolves:
1)against two good defenses (Jacksonville and Tampa Bay)
2)on the road both games
3)without his starting RB (the first game against Jacksonville)
Ragone has the tools to be a pretty good NFL quarterback, but he needs reps and then playing time to develop. As a Longhorn fan, I am glad Chris Simms is in Tampa Bay and not in Ragone's position. I think Texans fans are going to start complaining about the Texans drafting Ragone instead of Simms, but it has been a difficult situation for Ragone and would have been an impossible one for Simms because he would have had the added pressure of playing in the state of Texas. In Tampa Bay, Simms has had the chance to be groomed as the QB of the future.
One quick note on this...I will 1st mention that I am not a T-Banks fan either. I was listening to Clayton and Salisbury on ESPN last night and "The Steak" mentioned that Jeff George would be a great #2 QB that would like a veteran back-up. I discounted this at 1st but he made a great case for him...maybe we take a look at him, or heck anyone else but Banks or Ragone. I have chills when I think of either one of those guys coming in and the game on the line.
This is preseason and Banks has shown poise in the past. I am not ready to write him off. Ragone is a second-year player. I believe we arew developing h im the way a player of his talent needs to be developed. Tony Banks is not operating with the first team offense and that makes a difference.
After reading this thread, it is no wonder at all why there are so many "FIRE [insert name here] NOW" threads. The knee-jerking that goes on, it's surprising that most of you don't need arthroscopic surgery at the end of each season.
Last year, when Carr was hurt, Banks played so well that some of you were hoping that Banks remained the starter even when David got well. But now, in the preseason, after playing behind a line whose only future will be to turn in their playbooks tomorrow, all of a sudden he's terrible?
And as for Ragone, I seem to recall somewhere that Palmer has decided to change Ragone's mechanics. So I'd slack off on the shin-banging, and maybe work a little harder on the slack-cutting.
It's only fair, ya know.
Yeah, what he said!
In the first Pre-season game Ragone was throwing the ball with pinpoint accuracy. He seamed to be comfortable and was playing well. In the last game he had some problems but I've seen the potential and I'm behind the coach's giving him every chane to grow into that potential.
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