Question for Kubiak supporters

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Mr. White, Nov 10, 2008.

  1. Mr. White

    Mr. White H-Town Beatdown

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    It's starting to look like this board is on the verge of another board war that reminds me of the "Carr haters" vs. the "Carr homers" or the "Vince camp" vs. the "Reggie camp."

    I'll admit that I'm one of those that's seen enough. Largely for the reasons that we're seeing in threads littered throughout the MB. Bad playcalling, clock management, questionable hires, etc, etc...but I'm not really trying to start a bash thread.

    My question is why do you like the guy? Why do you feel like he can be successful as a head coach?

    Honest question.
     
  2. powerfuldragon

    powerfuldragon g'mornin to you

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    he needs a much better scouting dept. just ask vinny.
     
  3. Texan_Bill

    Texan_Bill Subscribed Contributor

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    First Kubiak was not given a ground level position, meaning that parts and pieces were in place when he took over. If anything, his tenure started in a hole. A deep hole at that. In 2 1/2 seasons, there are only 3 or 4 'originals' left on the squad. That's a whole lot of turnover in a very short amount of time.

    Some here, overplay the "I can win with David Carr'' card. I doubt that was anything more than appeasing the owner in an interview. Had no one said what he said, Dom Capers would have been re-hired and Carr might still be here. Who amongst us while interviewing and barely having seen any tape on the guy wouldn't agree??

    I feel that the offense can move the ball every week. Sometimes more pass than run, sometimes more run than pass. The starting QB has about 20 starts to his name, so plenty of room for growth there. Is he the answer, maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. Although, I think those Sage lovers are finally figuring out why in Sage's 7 or 8 seasons, he's never landed as a starter.

    Who knows for sure if Richard Smith was a Kubiak hire? If so, then Kubiak should nut up and fire his a$$.... sooner rather than later. If it's someone else's hire, they should do the same.... period. This defense is horrendous.

    I think he can be successful, BUT, there must be a new DC for that to happen. I think he can be successful because, again, he was handed a team that was in a deep, deep hole. NOT handed a team that was only a few parts and peices away...

    Last, I don't beleive in "push a button for instant results". I beleive in stability. 3 coaches inside a 10 year period speaks of desperation and the owner having no vision for his team. I'd be hard-pressed to find a team that has had 3 separate coaches in less than 10 seasons AND success (except maybe during the Cowboys JJ, Barry Switzer era).

    Thats it.... Let the ingrates flame away.
     
  4. Thorn

    Thorn Dirty Old Man

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    Not from me. I think Kubiak will be a great coach someday, but his break in period is taking a bit longer than I expected because the defense is so bad. Our offense, and I've said it before, is only a lineman or two and a bigger RB away from standing up to most anyone. Well, that is with a good QB, so maybe I'll throw that one in there too, but Schaub was doing good things before getting hurt. Again.

    Our defense is horrible because of a lack of talent AND coaching. We can eliminate one of those quickly with a good DC and then sign a good free agent or two and a couple of draft picks, and we are suddenly competitive.
     
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  5. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    I can't believe you are that upbeat, Thorn, LOL!
     
  6. Thorn

    Thorn Dirty Old Man

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    If we had a better DC, we'd probably be looking at a better team that didn't quit, and quite possibly another 8-8 season instead of the mess we got now.

    I don't mean to imply we could be good enough for the playoffs, that's silly, but we can be and should be better than we are.
     
  7. DiehardChris

    DiehardChris You betcha!

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    Big Kubiak supporter, here.

    Let me just get this out of the way - YES I know there are a lot of problems. But, I look at it like this. Gary has always been an offensive mind, and he's offense-focused. He's made our offense into one of the best in the NFL. Yes, I know - turnovers. Yes, I know - red zone problems. It's debatable how much you can blame a coach for the turnovers, when he's repeatedly made it a HUGE focus in the off-season and in practice.

    Red zone problems? Yes, totally on Kubiak. Same with questionable play-calling (which I don't think is nearly as horrible as so many do), and same with the clock management (which is totally inexcusable).

    Before I give up on Kubiak, I want to see what this team can do with a defense that causes turnovers, and a defense that isn't buttery soft like this one is. I want a new defensive coordinator, and I want it now (actually I wanted it a year ago like so many others, but I'll take NOW).

    Again - for those that are about to hammer me for what I just said - I understand that the play-calling and clock-management issues are on him, and that they're often inexcusable... but after only 2.5 years, and with an offense that's SO CLOSE to being an elite one - I don't want to quit on him.

    But he HAS to realize that Richard Smith needs to go. Right now, it doesn't really matter who's to blame - Smith needs to go to show the fans that the organization realizes there's a HUGE problem, and that something needs to change... because result-wise, really what's going to be the difference between he or Frank Bush running the D? It sure couldn't get any worse.
     
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  8. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

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    This evening on the Kubiak 610 show, Kubiak was asked, even though we all know that he is very involved with the running of the offense, how involved was he on the running of the defense side of the ball? He unhesitantly answered that he was VERY involved.

    It certainly gave me pause.............and certainly failed to convey confidence to me as to his oversight ability, competence or vision as to the way to redirect this team.
     


  9. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

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    Who is this miracle worker than can turn the defense, and the team, around? Kubiak swung and missed with Richard Smith (note to Texan Bill: Smith was a Gary Kubiak hire). Why are we so sure that this great defensive coordinator will come to work under Gary Kubiak?

    If there is a defensive coordinator who can come in and turn this team around, Bob McNair should hire him as head coach. WCO playcallers are a dime a dozen in this league. And anyone who thinks the Texans are a near elite offense after watching the games versus the Steelers, Titans, and last Sunday's debacle has totally redefined the term "elite". Putting up stats versus losing teams is akin to scoring TDs in garbage time. In essence, the rest of this season is garbage time.

    There are coaches who do more with less. And there are coaches who do less with more. This staff falls in the latter category. The entire staff.
     
  10. Silver Oak

    Silver Oak Hall of Fame

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    that's interesting, but probably just his way of covering for Smith?

    I like what I've seen out of Kubiak to this point. Sure there are shortcomings, but what NFL coach doesn't have some? They are human afterall.

    Our problems are lack of talent first and foremost, and while I'm not a football expert, I think our defense needs an overhauling...starting at the coach/es.
     
  11. houstonhurricane

    houstonhurricane All Pro

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    From an investment standpoint, I think McNair should/will give Kubiak one more season to get things turned around. Changing coaching staffs at a time when we appear to have at least developed a competitive offense would probably lead to more short-term setbacks.

    Give him one more season to work with Schaub, hire a new defensive coordinator, and get things turned around on the turnover front. If we are not in contention for a playoff spot in December next year, it will be time to make a change.
     
  12. Mr. White

    Mr. White H-Town Beatdown

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    He also said that he was going to stay the course when they mentioned making coaching changes on defense today. He said something about rewarding loyalty....
     
  13. Texans_Chick

    Texans_Chick Utopian Dreamer

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    Richard Smith was not Kubiak's first choice. The choices of DCs were very limited during that offseason--there were a ton of coaching changes. I think he was doing the best he could with what was available.

    I like Kubiak for the following reasons:

    1. I think he does more with less on the offensive side of the ball. He has had to make do with a lot of players while redoing the roster.

    2. I think his team plays hard for him. Not always smart, but look at the teams that are totally imploding all over the league. The players on both sides of the ball love playing for him. Coaches like Alex Gibbs and Ray Rhodes called the Texans to be a part of this staff. You can't say that about every coach in the league.

    3. I'd like to see what he could do with an actual defensive coordinator. I hope one of those is available. That the Texans went 8-8 with last year's defense and the injuries all over the team actually demonstrates some pretty amazing coaching. (In Football Outsiders' stats, last year's defense was ranked 30th in the league. Their stats are more stark than the regular YPG stats because they measure efficiency compared to the league instead of a measurement that may not judge them relative to their peers.

    4. Ultimately, the Texans are Kubiak's dream job. Not a stepping stone to something else. He's a Houstonian and wants Houston to have a winning football team more than anyone. I'm not sure how much of a consideration that is, but I suppose that's worth mentioning.

    I'm sure there is other stuff in there. Here's a general synopsis of the Kubiak era to date that I did back in September that discusses some of the criticisms of the current team.


    Overall, I am very sympathetic to anyone building something from scratch. Especially from something as messed up as that 2005 team was. I also don't see any head coaching candidates out there that I'm particularly enthused about getting that would have any interest at all in the Texans job. I think it will be easier to find someone more experienced than Richard Smith to take that role.
     
  14. DiehardChris

    DiehardChris You betcha!

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    Steph, my thoughts exactly. Good post.
     
  15. DiehardChris

    DiehardChris You betcha!

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    Also Steph, I would add to your (our) posts:

    Right now Kubiak is going through his worst stretch with the team. It's gotten really bad lately, but people shouldn't be so quick to forget that he took this team from 2-14 to 6-10 to 8-8. Yeah, this year poor play, poor coaching, poor everything have knocked them down a couple of notches - but as far as I'm concerned the guy has had TWO FULL SEASONS of good will built up. The BRUTAL schedule, Ike wiping away our first home game, and the terrible first half does not, IMO, supercede the positive upswing of his first 32 games.
     
  16. Jackie Chiles

    Jackie Chiles Hall of Fame

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    I would love to see what the offense would look like if we had a legit defense. When we are on offense it just seems like every single possession is so crucial because we know that even if we are just down, say 3-7, if we don't find the end-zone there is a good chance that turns into 3-14 asap. I can only guess but I think Kubiak would be slightly more conservative in the passing game and he would be more inclined to run the ball with some actual consistency. I think Schaub could succeed in that kind of environment but the running game still can't run when we really have to. Some people could probably argue that nothing would change on offense because Kubiak has made it a point to be super aggressive.
     
  17. Texans_Chick

    Texans_Chick Utopian Dreamer

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    Yeah, Rosenfels before the last game said that he should consider it a sin to punt. But it really is a sin to punt with this defense.

    I mean, when you are at a game, do you find yourself truly surprised when the other team's offense has to punt? And it is a rarity when it happens because the Texans forced it. It is usually because the other team gooned. That double pass play on Sunday was so nutty and risky. All I could think of was why don't you run the dang ball for another 6 yards or so?
     
  18. Runner

    Runner Hubcap Diamond Staff Member

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    I disagree with the rather common sentiment that Kubiak started in a big hole he has been steadily digging out of. Right now he is reaping the results of the extra depth (pun intended, wait for it) he added to the original hole once he was done with his own digging.

    When Kubiak got here, he with the help of Sherman brought in a few washed up players with no real future in the league. They might have been good at one time, but they did very little here. They were supposed to bring leadership and "locker room presence", but their main asset was usually that they played for Green Bay or Denver before. There were a couple of exceptions to this, but there was a pattern. The mantra in response to people who questioned this was many times "in Kubes we trust" or a reference to some mythical, all powerful and wise Smithiak creature.

    Well these players are no longer with team after contributing very little on the field. They did take the roster spots of younger players the Texans already had though. These younger players could have developed into better players and at least worthwhile depth; the old timers he brought in instead did nothing but continue to slide into the twilight of their careers. Sure there were some duds on the team when he got here. There was some talent worth developing too though.

    The Texans were 7-9 two years before Kubiak got here; that is only one game behind Kubiak's best year after two years of improvement and after Smith worked his magic to add all the talent for which he is credited. One game. 7-9 is probably a better record than the Great Smithiak leviathan will produce this year. There was talent on that previous team. Think about it - they were 7-9 with Carr at quarterback - they probably would have broken .500 with an average QB like Schaub.

    Now for those of you who are open minded enough to look at things from another direction, think about this:

    Maybe the problem is that Kubiak only has a handful of players left from the team he inherited. He did a lot to hurt the development and future depth on this team when he got here. He may have cost himself some starters too.

    That's my opinion.
     
  19. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

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    This is a quote from your blog:
    Co-coordinators? Has that ever been done? It would have been either a genius or asinine move. Wait...if Richard Smith was involved, it's automatically an asinine move.

    I could look back to 2006 and cherry pick assistant coaches who have gone on to become good defensive coordinators. OK, I will. Steve Spagnuolo, Greg Blache, Leslie Frazier. All of these guys were position coaches who couldn't have been blocked by their team for a vertical move to defensive coordinator as none had the assistant head coach title. What these guys didn't have going for them was previously working with Kubiak. The good ol' boy system bit Kubiak in the arse. And what gives so many Texans fans the certainty that Kubiak will get the right defensive coordinator the 2nd time around? Because good things should happen to good people?

    And I couldn't disagree more with your opinion of the effort the Texans give Kubiak. In the first 2 1/2 years of the franchise, the Texans played hard for Dom Capers. They overachieved. The Texans under Gary Kubiak have not overacheived. Kubiak's teams have a record of 4-18 versus opponents with plus .500 records. There are certainly some Texans who play hard. Just not enough.

    I'd be remiss in not pointing out how Kubiak gives his players less than full effort on gameday. Yesterday saw another display of Kubiak's poor clock management. His indecision on when and where to use timeouts and challenges have cost the Texans dearly. Who looked like a rookie head coach on Sunday, John Harbaugh or Kubiak? The main difference I see between Capers and Kubiak is that Gary doesn't walk the sidlines with a "Oh my gawd, I just swallowed a bee" visage. They are equally baffled as to how to get the team to perform at a winning level.

    As I said in another thread, Kubiak's future shouldn't be decided by who is or isn't available to replace him as head coach. He should keep or lose his job based on merit. His merit is recorded as 17-24, to date. Kubiak had a dream, and it was fulfilled when he became the Texans head coach. I have a dream, too. It's to see the Texans have a winning season and make the playoffs. That's not happening this season. Again. Time to move on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  20. Norg

    Norg Hall of Fame

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    i was a carr supporter i think he did good with the O line he had besides we never needed a great QB just one who could manage the game

    and i was shocked when we let him go after we Finally beat the colts and then Celevand

    i mean carr could win us some divison games he beat the jags like 5 + times titans like 2 times and colts once

    I dont know schaubs record aganist divison oppents but i dont think its better then David carr's record
     

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