Question About Mckinney

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by fball, Mar 18, 2005.

  1. fball

    fball Rookie

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    Alot of people on this board is always bashing mckinney, I guess I never really focused on him that much, is he really that bad as everyone says? How many sacks did he give up last year or broken up plays up the middle? :hmmm:
     
  2. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    Center is very hard to grade and I have a tough time with figuring out how well a player is doing myself. I'm not real high on McKinney because I feel that he gets man-handled a bit much in the run game and gets pushed back a bit too much in pass protections. In fairness to McKinney, some feel that we do not use slide protections to the interior players enough and leave them isolated way too often in 5 man protections where most teams use help more (double teams) and their backs to do more than chip block. Most teams do not leave their players on an island as much (hard to believe you can leave a man isolated in the middle of the line but that is true). Palmer calls all the protections and not the line coaches so take that fwiw.
     
  3. fball

    fball Rookie

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    Well do you think that we will draft a center high or low in the draft or at all, because I know they won't get any in FA, that all depends on if they feel mckinney is not that great or if they think he's good enough.
     
  4. texasguy346

    texasguy346 Mod Squad

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    It's hard to tell what Casserley is going to do because he's always full of surprises. If we do draft a center in the 2nd or 3rd round it would likely take him time to develop into a starting center. That means that McKinney would likely have his starting job for another year. That doesn't necessarily mean we'll be having the same problems with the OLine next year. Pitts and Wand were both essientially first year starters. Wand was a starter for the first time in the NFL at LT, and Pitts was at a new position LG that he'd never played before. If both guys learn on the run, and play much better next season we could see a drastic difference in the OLine play. If Wand is able to take on most DE one on one as opposed to having to depend on Pitts for help then that will free up Pitts to help out McKinney with some of the stronger and bigger DTs and NTs. Wade has been solid at RT, and Weigert can be impressive when he stays healthy. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get a couple of young OLinemen at C or G to provide some depth, and also to provide the eventual replacements for McKinney and Weigert.
     
  5. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    I've always thought that one day Fred Weary would slide over to Center, but I think I was wrong on that one (fast forward to today).

    I do think we draft a Center in the third round (most likely round imo). If we keep McKinney past this year he may face a situation that Foreman has faced this year as he is scheduled for $3,850,000 and $4,600,000 in the next couple of years. To me, he is not performing up to his pay...but to be fair to him, I don't break down gamefilm and he may grade out higher than I think.
     
  6. powda

    powda Hall of Fame

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    i seem to be one of the biggest advocates on this board for replacing mckinney...for good reason. i have just about every game of every season on tape...and i have watched mckinney specifically before.

    he isnt going to physically dominate anyone...i think thats a given by now.

    people site the number of sacks hes given up vs other lineman on this team but what they dont realize is that fairly often with a 4 man rush in pass protection mckinney is the free lineman. he dosent have to face a dt 1 on 1. his role is to assist a guard in many instances. time after time i see mckinney assisting the wrong guard...maybe pitts gets a bad jump or is driven back repeatedly....wheres mckinney? flat footed helping weigert when he dosent need it...and vice versa when weigert needs the help and pitts dosent. more often then not its my opinion he's not making the right choices in who to help fast enough. this is when mckinney is free to assist other linemen...when hes on his own 1 on 1....mckinney is steadily beaten. as a run blocker mckinney dosent get a push...dosent play with leverage...dosent seal anyone off. about the most you can hope for is he holds his defender at the line of scrimmage just long enough for dd to make the corner etc...

    in pass protection mckiney looks collegiate when he has no help and he's 1 on 1. he's just not strong enough. the bulk of pressure carr got last year came from the inside...and mckinney's been the mantle piece there since our inception. something else to consider is who has been calling the line calls at the line of scrimmage? mckinney.-------and our line play has always been subpar.

    i hate to be a killjoy on this topic but im not impressed...and never have been. in addition to his poor performance he makes way to much. he needs to restructure and be replaced...i give carr credit for not having called mckinney out a long time ago.
     
  7. NeViKaN

    NeViKaN Rookie

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    Where can I find stats on sacks allowed by ol? Is it called SKA? :hmmm:
     
  8. fball

    fball Rookie

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    what good centers will be around in the third or fourth round?
     


  9. tiger06

    tiger06 Veteran

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    I think Chris Spencer would be a great pick up in the 2nd round. If not him, then maybe Wilkerson in the 3rd.
     
  10. texasguy346

    texasguy346 Mod Squad

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    There will probably be quite a few. Wilkerson and Brown come to mind. Spencer might go in the 2nd or perhaps early first but that's doubtful. David Baas can play G/C, and some think he could go in the first or early in the second. texansfan88 seems to be pretty high on Jelani Clement, and he seems to be available in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th on most mock drafts. There should be a pretty good amount of centers in the 3rd.
     
  11. keyfro

    keyfro Hall of Fame

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    chris spencor is the best center in the draft this year...but brown and wilerson(when healthy) are not too far behind him...mckinny's weakness is that he is not being pushed by competition and that when we face jacksonville he never is able to handle their front two of stroud and henderson...granted there isn't a lot of guys in the nfl that can but they are our division rivals we see them twice a year so it makes sense to me that we should have a center that can better handle them...spencor is supposed to be one of the strongest lineman in the draft...brown is the strongest i believe...baas is very capable...what i really think is the probably is the lack of consistancy from weigert...he is good when not hurt...but is hurt all the freakin time...we could pick up a guard/center type of player in hopes to make him the rotational guy for both mckinny and weigert since weary and brown have failed to live up to expectations
     
  12. texansfan88

    texansfan88 All Pro

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    Jelani Clement, C from Hampton! he could end up being a real good 7th round solid backup...lacks height however at only 5'11 5/8
     
  13. Sarg01

    Sarg01 Hall of Fame

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    Spencer's better upside, but Wilkerson has the experience to start very quickly if need be.
     
  14. ledzeppelin229

    ledzeppelin229 Hall of Fame

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    What's the latest word on OU C Vince Carter? I haven't heard much about him in awhile, how does he compare to the other 3rd-4th round guys that have been mentioned?
     
  15. D-ReK

    D-ReK RAWWWRR!

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    Carter isn't strong enough to make an impact his rookie year...He has the same problem as McKinney in that he gets dominated by bigger DTs as well...He seems to have been sliding down draft boards and will probably be a 4th or 5th rounder...
     
  16. BigDTexansFan

    BigDTexansFan All Pro

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    Some need to remember injuries have always been a problem for OL, also last year Capers put in Dever's Blocking Scheme...not one players had used before...will be waiting to see if they get comfortable with it or struggle some more
     
  17. hound

    hound Rookie

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    McKinney actually gave up the fewest sacks of anyone on the line... I think.

    Here is where you go to find those stats.

    http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/findplayer.asp

    When you get there click on STATS and you can search for guys then by position or name.
     
  18. vtech9

    vtech9 Hall of Fame

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    OFFICIALLY, he gave up fewer sacks, but what that stat doesn't show you is how many times Carr was forced out of the pocket by someone being blocked (or not blocked) by Mckinney, forcing Carr to the outside. I can picture a few times when Wand had his man blocked, but when Carr was forced out of the pocket, he got sacked by Wand's guy. Wand got credit for giving up the sack, but in actuallity, there wasn't much Wand could do. Even though Mckinney's guy didn't get the sack, it was Mckinney's guy that forced Carr to the outside.
     
  19. edo783

    edo783 Site Contributor

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    That is the problem of JUST using stats. You don't know the context of what happend. McKinny's play contributed big time to the tackles getting charged with sacks because David had to be on the move.
     
  20. tacoman_j

    tacoman_j Veteran

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    Why does Steve make so much money. According to Houstonprofootball, he is slated to count 4 mill in 05 and 4.6 mil in 06. Will he be a salary cap casualty next year?

    http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html
     

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