Profootball Weekly on Texans Moves

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by tacoman_j, Apr 6, 2005.

  1. tacoman_j

    tacoman_j Veteran

    Joined:
    May 17, 2004
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    0
  2. Reddevil63

    Reddevil63 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,253
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Arlington
    Most of the is true, but its kind of hard to say what the team is going to look like before the draft and the June 1st cuts. I mean, we could trade up to get DJ and get a guy like Reggie Brown in the draft and there go two of the biggest issues in that article.
     
  3. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,991
    Likes Received:
    244
    Location:
    Houston
    Yea, when you look at our situation from the "glass is half empty" perspective
    you have a whole slew of issues to deal with. To the list we could add:
    still a lot of uncertainty about our TE situation and DD though good still has
    very dubious durability. We have a whole bunch of needs to take care of in
    this draft.
     
  4. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    15,469
    Likes Received:
    2,292
    I know Jeff Reynolds is an "associate editor" at Pro Football Weekly and so his "thoughts on the hottest topics in the NFL" are supposed to be newsworthy but I didn't find this all that informative.

    It looked like a series of "blinding flash of the obvious" points. Yes the Texans let two of their starting linebackers walk out the door. Anyone could have pointed that out. What he didn't bother to mention was that Antwan Peek is in fact a difference maker and it looks like he's going to get to play on the outside this year while Wong moves inside. "The Babin, Greenwood, Wong, and Peek" group is going to make some heads turn. That's a young, fast, and aggressive group of players. Babin will be in year two and should improve, Greenwood is easily I think an upgrade over Foreman and Wong can give us what Sharper did in the middle. Peek is going to bring the sacks.

    I'd like to see the Texans do something dramatic and move up to grab DJ but if they don't that's fine. The group they have right now, with a bit of depth added should be able to do the job well.

    He (Reynolds) is closer on the mark about the defensive line. As much as I think moving up to get DJ would be cool deep down I know we need some quality d-line depth badly. After our starters we have a bunch of guys I collectively think of as "The Floppers". It seems like when they're in there it's someone flopping over and then limping off the field every three or four plays. Maybe that's just leftover 2003 memories but I very much think we need a good defensive lineman in this draft on day one if he's there.

    Then they go an talk about everyones favorite whipping boy Seth Wand. He points out the failed Orlando Pace deal like that was our only hope of being able to protect Carr in 2005 but he's wrong. Wand is going to surprise a lot of people next year, mark my words on that. He was going to be a two year project and he got into the starters spot one year early by busting his rear and working hard. Does anyone think he's not aware of the criticism since he took over the LT spot? I predict that Wand is going to be one of the most motivated Texans in camp again and he's going to be a high quality LT in this league for years to come.

    Will he be Orlando Pace good? Well, no almost certainly not. 31 teams make do without Orlando Pace on their line and most of them do just fine. The Texans made a serious move to get Pace down here but what they didn't do really stands out. They didn't lift a finger to try and get anyone else. They aren't in a panic over Seth Wand and neither should we (or Pro Football Weekly) be in one. The only guy they tried to get to replace Wand just happened to be the best LT in the game.

    I'll be surprised if they draft Barron with their first round pick too. I think Seth Wand at the start of 2005 is going to be a better LT than Alex Barron will be until at least 2007. If their original assessment of Wand was correct he may always be a better LT than Alex Barron.

    The Texans are going to be fine and are in fact much further along than many people out there believe. A lot of people in here don't realize how good the Texans are going to be in 2005 as well.
     
  5. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    21,847
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    Ever since Joel Bushbaum passed away PFW hasn't been the same.
     
  6. El Tejano

    El Tejano Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    9,933
    Likes Received:
    447
    I think the majority of writers and fans try to find quick fix solutions. The last game of the season really put a bad taste in alot of people's mouth because our Oline didn't show at all. So naturally we say, gotta get Olineman. Well they went for the best in the game, didn't come up with that and now will look for the draft where really there is not significant upgrade there and you can get that in the later rounds.

    I thought that he failed to realize the LB corp may have suffered because they just didn't adapt to a 3-4 scheme.
     
  7. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    21,847
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    The key to assessing the Texas posture on Wand is the fact that they didn't pursue multiple FA Tackles. In my estimation, if they were worried about Wand they would have made overtures to other Tackles. The only Tackle they pursued is an eventual Hall of Famer (arguably, but I'd consider it likely Pace goes in), so if they were all worried about the LT they didn’t show it by who they looked at in the FA period. Some people have mused that Pace used the Texans, but Casserly could have used Pace as well. Seems like half the NFL world has totally bought into the fact that we are down on Wand. Looking closer, I don’t buy it.

    I think it is a safer bet that the Texans take a young Tackle but will do it later in the first day. I still can’t see T at 13 because I think the team has more confidence in Wand than the fans do. Charlie said it himself that we started Wand one year too early in retrospect. I think it is smart to have two young (quality) Tackles on the team. Free Agents are expensive and a guy like Barnes or Britt (or a few others perhaps) would beat out Spears and improve our depth one way or another. Whoever wins the LT spot would have a good young reserve to back them up.
     
  8. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    14,255
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Huh? The Texans took Wand in the 3rd round as a small school project. The Texans may or may not consider Barron @13 in this draft, but they would certainly rank him above a 3rd round pick (as would every other team in the league).

    Regarding the Texans current assessment of Wand, it doesn't look too favorable. The Texans were willing to give big bucks & a 1st round pick for Pace, a solution to the problem at LT. That they didn't throw money at overpriced FA's like Jonas Jennings is more an indictment on this class of free agent linemen than a confirmation of Wand’s ability.

    Here are the facts:
    Wand allowed more sacks than any other lineman in the NFL.
    At one point in the season, Wand was replaced by long time scrub Marcus Spears on passing downs.
    The Texans gave best effort in trying to obtain one of the top 3 LT’s in football.

    The Texans may or may not draft a LT prospect in this draft. If not, it’s more likely due to difference in talent they perceive between those prospects and players at other positions. In the Texans estimation, a statement on what’s available. Not an affirmation of Seth Wand’s talent & production.
     
  9. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    15,469
    Likes Received:
    2,292

    The Texans took Wand in the third round and knew he was a project and not a short term one either. They saw great potential there but they expected him to take a few years to reach it. I don't think anyone disputes this Lucky. Wand worked hard and got himself into a starting position much earlier than anyone expected and, apparently in retrospect much earlier than the Texans now think was best. I'm sure some of this was Wand working hard and some of it was desire on the Texans part to get Chester Pitts started at his eventual home, LG.

    It doesn't change the fact though that regardless of where Wand and Barron were (or will be) picked in the draft IF Wand pays off he may become a better LT than Barron. It's a possibility, that's all I'm saying. Barron could end up being a bust, Wand could end up going to the Pro Bowl someday. It could turn out the other way around. Nobody knows how it's going to turn out.
     
  10. Number19

    Number19 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,100
    Likes Received:
    59
    Wand was thrown to the lions, so to speak, and by accounts, a year too early. If you trust C & C's original assessment of Wand's potential, he certainly should have learned more last year starting than he would have not starting. Last year's experience should pay off in the long run.
     
  11. Grid

    Grid Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    4,299
    Likes Received:
    244
    Im with Vinny on this one. If we really felt that Wand was an issue... we would have taken steps to find an LT in FA. Yah we tried to get Pace but he is the ONLY guy we went for. It is HIGHLY unlikely that we plan on replacing Wand in the draft this year.. Im not sure how many LTs have started at LT in their first year.. but im pretty sure its a very very small number. You draft an LT to replace your current LT EVENTUALLY.. not immediatly.

    I think a middle round OT is a possibility.. though I think middle round interior linemen are a bigger possibility.


    I also beleive the Texans have more confidence in Wand than the fans. If you watch the games again.. Wand really didnt show any crippling weaknesses.. he showed that he is still raw, but he didnt do anything that convinced me he couldnt be a good LT. We have been high on Wand since we got him.. he has had all the intagibles and we have been grooming him to be our starting LT.. I dont think having a rough first season is enough for us to throw in the towel on him. If anything.. we are going to find other ways to take some pressure off him. Either through changing up our blocking schemes a bit, to give him some more help.. or lining up Joppru next to him regularly.. or (as we have already done) using more timing patterns/routes so that the ball gets out of Carr's hands quicker.

    Barron at #13 just doesnt do anything for me.. Wade is solid at RT.. and Wand still looks promising at LT... that means, if anything, we need guards and center.. and we can get some high quality interior olinemen in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in this draft.
     
  12. texan279

    texan279 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,990
    Likes Received:
    116
    Location:
    Rosenberg TX
    Just curious, do you have a link or article for this? If so I would like to have a look at it...
     
  13. keyfro

    keyfro Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,859
    Likes Received:
    37
    all i have to say on the issue is this...no one is this years draft at the tackle position will come in and do better than wand this year...look at next years draft...you have ferguson, scott, winston, whitworth, and many others that would be ahead of barron and barnes this year if they came out early...if we get barron i won't surprised but i won't be surprised if we passed on him either...if he's the bpa then take him if you don't like him trade down and get more picks...if you ask me we are targetting a OT in this years draft his name is adam terry of sryacuse...capers has gone to his pro day and has had personal interviews with him...i think he's our 2nd round pick...he'll come in and back up both wand and wade...and next year might battle wand for the starting LT position if we don't grab one of the other guys i previously mentioned
     
  14. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,991
    Likes Received:
    244
    Location:
    Houston
    Since we almost got thru the FA period without the Texans making a move on
    somebody, I took that as an endorsement of Wand's progress and their confidence in him. Then they made this big move on Pace - granted it was
    a window of opportunity that opened and closed quickly and they had to move quick to have a shot - but it was the only move they made. I have been puzzled by this all or nothing approach to replacing Wand only with the very best. But I suppose Luckys explanation is the answer - after Pace nobody else of value came along who had a reasonable price. But in a back handed sort of way that's an endorsement - atleast Wand is no worse in
    the Texans estimation that what appeared on the FA market this year -
    after OP.
     
  15. jr0ck

    jr0ck Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    BCS/H-town
    agreed as well. i don't remember at any point last season that i though "damnit, the left side of the line is getting killed!" moreso than any other portion of our line. and even in the small chance this is true, it's already been discussed that alot of the interior line's blown assignments led to carr getting flushed and an ROLB/RE getting outside of wand to make the sack, thus passing the sacks from the original 'culprit' and placing it on wand ...you can't blame him for doing his job, yet getting let down by his fellow lineman.
     
  16. Porky

    Porky Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Messages:
    12,440
    Likes Received:
    984
    I tend to agree with PFW's take. I don't think our LB crew will scare anyone. That's JMO. IF, I repeat IF, Peek can learn to play the run so he can stay on the field, then he MIGHT turn into that difference maker. Babin needs to greatly improve his play as well imo. Wong is ordinary, and Greenwood while speedy, isn't the next Ray Lewis to say the least...and I still have this nagging sensation that we over paid the guy. As for depth, we have nobody even close to starting calibur. We need one, if not two draftees here. IMO, there are more questions than answers at LB. To me, it's a mess at this point.

    On the Dline, we are too old, and overall, not good enough, putting even more pressure on the LB and secondary. We need a youth movement in this area in the worst way. I see a whole ton of if's here. IF Payne can get back to his old self, IF Walker can stay healthy and revert to his 2002 form, IF Robaire Smith can take the next step....IF IF IF. That is all I see here. If if's and but's were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

    On the Oline, I see alot of the same thing. IF Seth Wand gets alot better. If we change our line scheme, and provide more help. IF IF IF. if my aunt had balls, she be my uncle. If a hog had wings he'd be an eagle.

    I know every team has if's heading into camp. However, the bloom is off the rose. This team needs to at least be a 500 team this year. Anything less will be a failure, pure and simple. Those are my expectations. It's time to put the plan into effect, and at least make a drive toward the playoffs. Barring major injuries, anything less will call into question the FO moves, as well as the coaching. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point. They are the experts, and I trust them explicitly. I'm just providing the other side of the coin, as you usually just hear fans giving the half full speech, and I think we need to look at all sides, and think realisticly about where this team is...ie - take off the rose colored glasses, and see it for what it's worth.
     
  17. infantrycak

    infantrycak Lead Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    53,972
    Likes Received:
    2,455
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    It doesn't come from an article. Lucky did the research, I believe at Stats, Inc., and found Wand had the highest number of sacks by a LT. Wording is important here though. Several teams had multiple LT's play during the season and combined some teams gave up more sacks from the LT position.
     
  18. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    14,255
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    In a way, yes. This is Seth Wand's link at Stats.com. It credits Wand with 12.5 sacks allowed. If you go to this link at Stats, you can look up every offensive lineman in the NFL and see his sacks allowed total. The 2 linemen closest to Wand were the Giants LT Luke Petitgout (11.5) & Vikings LG Chris Liwienski (11.75).

    Maybe Wand was thrown to the lions (I know he looked terrible in Pontiac). But Seth is entering the last year of his rookie contract. After this season, he's a Restricted Free Agent. The Texans pretty much had to let Wand play in order for them to determine whether or not they had a LT to build with. In my estimation, he's not that LT. With hard work in the weight room & the classroom, maybe a solid RT. Likely a quality reserve. But I don't see the talent or instincts of a NFL caliber LT in Wand.

    Will Wand get another shot at LT this year? Looks like it. I mean what are the Texans options now? Draft a rookie high and hope he can learn the blocking & protection schemes by opening day? Move Pitts back to LT (in a contract year for Chester)? Have Wade & Wand swap spots? None look like real good alternatives, I understand. IMO, I think the Texans should spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a LT. There are 2 or 3 guys who could challenge Wand immediately for the LT spot. Another 2 or 3 who could be ready to take over by '06.

    Would taking a young LT that high maximize the value of the draft for the '05 season? No, the Texans would be better served in the short term getting more playmakers for Capers defense. If the Texans are to become a winning team in '05, the defense will have to lead the way. But in the long term, the LT position must be addressed. If not, they'll be looking for a new QB & a new head coach as well as an answer at LT.
     
  19. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    14,255
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Absolutely correct. The Texans showed far more patience with Wand than any other team would have. If anything, that's a plus in the argument that the Texans will give Wand another shot at the job.
     
  20. texan279

    texan279 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,990
    Likes Received:
    116
    Location:
    Rosenberg TX
    So we should have benched Wand sometime during the season?
     

Share This Page