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Owen Daniels/Texans playing "contract chicken"'

BeatDaTitans

Practice Squad
Just sign him please he is a valuble player on our team. I dont wanna hear this crap just sign for like 4 or 5 years and move on....Jesus!
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Just sign him please he is a valuble player on our team. I dont wanna hear this crap just sign for like 4 or 5 years and move on....Jesus!
It isn't that simple. We don't know what kind of money he is asking for. If he is asking for top dollar TE money close to what Winslow got then that would be a really stupid deal and I'd have no problem either letting him walk, but would much rather the Texans trade him for a draft pick. He is a great TE, and all but he isn't worth the kind of money that Winslow got.
 
This is what I posted on his facebook

"Hey OD!! I'm like many who have written on your wall in major support of you!! I've been a PSL holder for the Texans now for 7 years and finally see light at the end of the tunnel. Your one of the reasons why. We need you out there and I hope you guys can take care of your contract so you can get you azz on the field!! :-) Also you posted on May 31st that contracts talks "continue to be positive". Has there been a snag in contract talks or are you just trying to force Rick's hand for your June 15th deadline?"

Waiting for a response
 

Pantherstang84

@rolisrgti06
It isn't that simple. We don't know what kind of money he is asking for. If he is asking for top dollar TE money close to what Winslow got then that would be a really stupid deal and I'd have no problem either letting him walk, but would much rather the Texans trade him for a draft pick. He is a great TE, and all but he isn't worth the kind of money that Winslow got.
and just who gets to make that determination? You?

I would rather pay the Winslow type money to OD than to Winslow. If we trade away every player that wants more money then we will be in constant rebuilding mode. Who wants that?
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
and just who gets to make that determination? You?
That would be nice if it were so.

I would rather pay the Winslow type money to OD than to Winslow. If we trade away every player that wants more money then we will be in constant rebuilding mode. Who wants that?
It's not a comparison of who is better out of Winslow and Daniels. It's about is Daniels worth that kind of money, and the answer is no. That is to much money to be paying any TE. Just because the Bucs over paid their guy doesn't mean that we should pony up the cash and pay an insane amount of dollars just to keep our guy at TE, especially after the Texans just drafted two TE's with different types of skill sets that may do just fine for the same type of cheap money that we have been able to pay Daniels the last 3 seasons.

You need to read though. I never once said that I wanted to trade Daniels. I said that it would be a smart move IF he is going to demand top TE money like what Winslow got. Only if that is the case do I want to trade him.If we kept him one more season and he walks, then that would have been foolish for not trading him and getting some value for him.

It really just all depends on what he is asking for. I don't want the team to be all conservative at other positions of need to find a high calibur player because we invested all of our cash into the TE position with Daniels when we had Casey and the other guy there as well who could play for a lot cheaper. We still have to think about other positions.
 

GP

Go Texans!
I think I just pissed Owen Daniels off on Facebook. Whoops!



I replied:



He immediately replied:



http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/OwenDaniels?ref=nf

Sorry Owen. I love your game. But with the way the world is right now, the last thing I want to hear is Athletes whining about money and contracts. Just my opinion.
Good for you, Frak.

When will these rich players learn to lay low when they hold out, and spare us the "Gee golly, you fans know how it is...gotta' stick up for myself so I can bank a few more mill...."

Hold out, be absent, but shut the hell up already.

:goodpost:
 

Goldensilence

hipster elite
and just who gets to make that determination? You?

I would rather pay the Winslow type money to OD than to Winslow. If we trade away every player that wants more money then we will be in constant rebuilding mode. Who wants that?
Good teams decide who is worth it versus who is asking for too much. That's why teams like the Patriots and Eagles don't mind letting top tier players walk but aren't always in rebuilding mode.

Two examples: Jeremiah Trotter and Deion Branch.

I keep up with the Eagles as my Fav NFC team and I remember the contract dispute that Trotter had with the Eagles. They let him walk to Washington where he struggled and eventually asked for his job back after getting cut after two bad years.

I remember the trade that sent a 1st rounder from the Seahawks to the Pats for Deion Branch. I laughed at the trade because there was no way he was worth that first rounder. Branch played great for the Pats but, I've seen a lot of players leave and struggle outside of N.E.

Not saying OD is not worth a fair contract but at the same time he works really well within this offense and that should be kept in mind as he entertains holding out more. He simply might not work well within another offense, and that's not indictative of the time or work he puts in. He's worked hard on being a good all around TE and he does deserve to get a pay raise for sure. I just hope he's judicial on what asking for Winslow Jr. money.

Pay DeMeco and OD, then see if we can get a good offer for Dunta.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Good teams decide who is worth it versus who is asking for too much. That's why teams like the Patriots and Eagles don't mind letting top tier players walk but aren't always in rebuilding mode.

Two examples: Jeremiah Trotter and Deion Branch.

I keep up with the Eagles as my Fav NFC team and I remember the contract dispute that Trotter had with the Eagles. They let him walk to Washington where he struggled and eventually asked for his job back after getting cut after two bad years.
Excellent example. The Eagles front office doesn't get near the credit they deserve for how well they handle their players. That Trotter move and how they got him back was pretty shrewd. They let him go and then he came crawling right back for a lot cheaper and played great for them when he acme back as well. I have a lot of respect for the Eagles management and how they handle things.

OD is a great TE for us, but we could possibly put in another guy like Casey who could do very well in this system as well. I'm not saying that I want to gamble on doing that, but if Daniels wants to handicapp us at other positions because we have to pay him to much money, then trade him and get some value and let's get Casey going. We still have plenty of other holes to fill and can't tie ourselves down because our TE wants a ridiculous contract like Winslow got where he is way over paid.
 
Hmm I'm betting this wasn't a surprise to Kubiak at all, probably even discussed.

Hey, he showed a lot more faith in the Office than 23 did by showing up for 2 weeks. He's a hell of a TE and a huge part of this team but no way is he tops in the league and if he's asking for tops money I'm passing. I have complete faith that the FO signs him to a reasonable, multi-year, incentive-laden, top-5 status contract before the season starts.

As much as people talk about teams taking the next step and making the playoffs I think most disregard the FO in saying it. Between these 3 contracts they will prove who they are as off-field managers just as teams like New England, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh have great teams AND FO's. I think we all see the on field stuff and have plenty of reason to be optimistic about the players and coaches and such but by the team taking that first step the office inevitably must follow. Keeping them with good contract negotiations will allow the team to build on the success we've seen since 2-14. They've built, now sustain and build again. That's how juggernauts are formed.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
It isn't that simple. We don't know what kind of money he is asking for. If he is asking for top dollar TE money close to what Winslow got then that would be a really stupid deal and I'd have no problem either letting him walk, but would much rather the Texans trade him for a draft pick. He is a great TE, and all but he isn't worth the kind of money that Winslow got.
Winslow isn't worth the kind of money that Winslow got.............
 

Runner

Hubcap Diamond
Staff member
It was short-sighted of OD to do any of the team workouts without a signed tender or new contract. He was assuming all the risk by showing up. He's shown the team his willingness to put out; the ball is in the team's court now.

I'd like to be able to say I'm surprised that a post has already been made suggesting an unproven rookie could fill OD's slot in "the system". I'm not. The dude is surprisingly easy to replace after being touted as a top five tight end for so long. I guess he's also "spouting off" to the press now because he gave his side of the story. It is a short distance from high character to spoiled athlete around here.
 

m5kwatts

Veteran
Is it just me or are back-to-back 8-8 seasons not enough to have this many whiny holdouts? I love Owen and Dunta but this is the kind of behavior thats warranted after a 10-6 or 11-5 season, not back to back 8-8's. The holdout pill would be a lot easier for fans to swallow if we were coming off of a gigantic season.

It just seems like these guys are counting their chickens before they hatch so to speak. Dunta and Owen--How about we go get it done and win some playoff games before you throw your hissy fits? If we end up going 7-9 or something because of these tantrums being a distraction then nobody's getting any money.
 

Mari-OWNED!

Bucco Bruce
I was pretty shocked to hear this news. Not sure what to think really. I just hope we give new contracts to Owen Daniels and DeMeco Ryans respectively.

Anyone else get the feeling like a lot of players on the Texans do not like GM Rick Smith?

Also if you hate this news, after this season Kevin Walter becomes a free agent... If he has another season like he did in 2008, we might have problems paying him the $$$ to keep him a Texan.
 

m5kwatts

Veteran
I was pretty shocked to hear this news. Not sure what to think really. I just hope we give new contracts to Owen Daniels and DeMeco Ryans respectively.

Anyone else get the feeling like a lot of players on the Texans do not like GM Rick Smith?

Also if you hate this news, after this season Kevin Walter becomes a free agent... If he has another season like he did in 2008, we might have problems paying him the $$$ to keep him a Texan.
I do get the feeling they dislike his handling of contract negotiations--which is dumb because its not his money he's dealing with--its Mr. McNair's his boss--but of course Dunta's agent didn't explain that to him before he blasted Rick

I anticipate Walter being in the 800-1000 yard range and 8-10 TD range again which of course could pave the way for a big pay day (or a franchising) when he's free next year---Pitts also is a FA and if the offense goes as it should he'll be in for a payday--and you can bet Brisiel and his people will be looking at whatever Pitts gets and ask for similar money as well as Schaub's deal will need to be revisited whether for a raise or for a restructuring

It could get messy all I hope is this drives them to be the best they can be in 09--I don't care if every player on the roster holds out next year if we win a Super Bowl
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
It was short-sighted of OD to do any of the team workouts without a signed tender or new contract. He was assuming all the risk by showing up. He's shown the team his willingness to put out; the ball is in the team's court now.

I'd like to be able to say I'm surprised that a post has already been made suggesting an unproven rookie could fill OD's slot in "the system". I'm not. The dude is surprisingly easy to replace after being touted as a top five tight end for so long. I guess he's also "spouting off" to the press now because he gave his side of the story. It is a short distance from high character to spoiled athlete around here.
Alright, let's not get carried away. DeMeco deserves his $$$ too and he's "on-board". OD will get his payday, but if he's holding out for Winslow $ (which should NEVER have been a realistic offer to ANY TE) he's kidding himself. He hasn't threatened (yet) to hold out "into" the season, so I have little issue with this for a vet who already knows his place in the system.

Dunta is another case altogether...and YES, I do consider his case to be spoiled athlete syndrome when you factor the nearly 10 mil he'll be making this year while coming off an injury AND not playing all that great at the end of last year to begin with. There's also the issue of a new DC and he needs the reps as bad (or worse) than any guy on the defense.
 

Runner

Hubcap Diamond
Staff member
Alright, let's not get carried away. DeMeco deserves his $$$ too and he's "on-board". OD will get his payday, but if he's holding out for Winslow $ (which should NEVER have been a realistic offer to ANY TE) he's kidding himself. He hasn't threatened (yet) to hold out "into" the season, so I have little issue with this for a vet who already knows his place in the system.

Dunta is another case altogether...and YES, I do consider his case to be spoiled athlete syndrome when you factor the nearly 10 mil he'll be making this year while coming off an injury AND not playing all that great at the end of last year to begin with. There's also the issue of a new DC and he needs the reps as bad (or worse) than any guy on the defense.

Who, besides "fans" making posts said he was looking for Winslow money? When fans make those assumptions just to have something to complain about, they seem far whinier than than the players. As soon as a player doesn't salute the Texans flag the tergiversation starts. As soon as he signs he'll be a great guy again, so I guess it evens out.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
DeMeco deserves his $$$ too and he's "on-board". OD will get his payday, but if he's holding out for Winslow $ (which should NEVER have been a realistic offer to ANY TE) he's kidding himself.

Dunta is another case altogether...
DeMeco is under contract. Daniels is not. Neither is Robinson. Daniels and Robinson are not "holding out". They just haven't signed their tenders, yet. Which is their prerogative. When the Texans tagged these players, they did so with the knowledge that they might not have Daniels and Robinson's services for minicamps and possibly even training camp.

I'm not suggesting that the Texans should cave in to these players' contract demands. I don't even know what they are (nor does anyone else who posts here). I'm just saying that the Texans organization shares equal "blame" for Daniels and Robinson non-participation in team activities. Actually, there is no fault for either side. That's just the system that currently exists.
 

buddyboy

Rookie
It was short-sighted of OD to do any of the team workouts without a signed tender or new contract. He was assuming all the risk by showing up. He's shown the team his willingness to put out; the ball is in the team's court now.

I'd like to be able to say I'm surprised that a post has already been made suggesting an unproven rookie could fill OD's slot in "the system". I'm not. The dude is surprisingly easy to replace after being touted as a top five tight end for so long. I guess he's also "spouting off" to the press now because he gave his side of the story. It is a short distance from high character to spoiled athlete around here.
I really don't think OD would be as easy to replace as people make him out to be. For a while people were saying that Dreessen was as good as OD and would be able to take his spot...I'm not convinced. OD has proven himself in our system, and for that simple fact ALONE he is deserving of a contract, not something crazy, but maybe more than what the Texans offered him initially.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Both sides of the equation will come to a mutual agreement that fits into the collective bargining agreement.

I've always been in favor of paying for production, so if you produce you get paid.

Rick Smith should significantly increase the offer IF he meets certain benchmarks, like playoffs, top 5 TE in the league statisticly etc... & pay him as such.....same goes for DeMeco & Dunta @ their positions.

I think its just more of a wait & see attitude during uncertain times & people with idle time during off-season. :cool:
 

Specnatz

Hall of Fame
It was short-sighted of OD to do any of the team workouts without a signed tender or new contract. He was assuming all the risk by showing up. He's shown the team his willingness to put out; the ball is in the team's court now.

I'd like to be able to say I'm surprised that a post has already been made suggesting an unproven rookie could fill OD's slot in "the system". I'm not. The dude is surprisingly easy to replace after being touted as a top five tight end for so long. I guess he's also "spouting off" to the press now because he gave his side of the story. It is a short distance from high character to spoiled athlete around here.
DeMeco is under contract. Daniels is not. Neither is Robinson. Daniels and Robinson are not "holding out". They just haven't signed their tenders, yet. Which is their prerogative. When the Texans tagged these players, they did so with the knowledge that they might not have Daniels and Robinson's services for minicamps and possibly even training camp.

I'm not suggesting that the Texans should cave in to these players' contract demands. I don't even know what they are (nor does anyone else who posts here). I'm just saying that the Texans organization shares equal "blame" for Daniels and Robinson non-participation in team activities. Actually, there is no fault for either side. That's just the system that currently exists.
The only reason OD is not under contract is because he did not sign his RFA high end qualifying offer, an offer which no player in the history of the league no player has ever turned down. He has yet to sign it because he wants a long term deal. Oh by the way because their is no CBA he would still be a RFA next year as well.

Why not sign the deal and work for a long term deal at the same time. The team still has to work out deals with draft picks as well. The timing seems odd. Especially, when the team is trying to work so many contracts at the same time.
 

threetoedpete

Hall of Fame
Winslow isn't worth the kind of money that Winslow got.............
He's definitely a far cry from the father. So is Mike Brown....kinda makes you wonder about the two.

Well those of us scratching our heads about the back to back TE picks last month don't have to wonder anymore. I think the "why" is in our face. Look each one of these guys is a private independent contractor. Easy for us to say this is fair money do the deal. Times are hard....you're being pig headed. You're not being loyal. But it's Owen Daniel's body. It's his money. It's his decision. It's his situation. And these guys pass through this gate maybe one or two times in their careers. I remember being a younker and thinking how obscene Erick Dickerson was asking for the amount of money he was asking for. Looking back... it wasn't obscene at all. He was grossly under paid.

I think it's pretty funny thinking that a rookie.....no matter how good you believe he will be in the future, could possibly fill the whole that the loss of O.D. will represent to the Texans in 2009. We knew they were going to have to make a choice on a couple of our more productive players. It was inevitable. Can't pay everyone day one money.... franchise tag money. And on this team....Andre Johnson and Mario Williams dip their bread in Bob's gravy boat first.

I don't think O.D. is Shannon Sharp or Ozzie Newsome. But I also don't believe there is a rookie a live that will be able to replicate what O.D. brings to the table for this offense. No way. So both sides are dug in and we will see what happens. But there is no bad guy here. Both sides are correct from their points of view. Just like when they tazzered Weary. Two sides with their necks bowed out.....and neither side smart enough to make a compromise and defuse the situation. O.D. wants to be paid fairly...long term. The Texans do not won't to over pay for a TE.

Two things are for certain: If it's Kubiak who's got his neck bowed this pi$$ing contest is already over. You're not going to out dig in an Aggie. And obviously, our capologist knows what the hell he's doing. We're not busting the franchise's cap for one guy no matter how good he is. Or thinks he is.


My solution would be give him his million and promise not to franchise him next year. Both sides get what they want. O.D. gets his walking players and a long term deal in 2010 in an uncapped year from whomever. The Texans get congruency for 2009. The risk is on O.D.'s plate for sure. But if he's chasing the money....never going to have a better opportunity than an once a generation uncapped year to find the golden ring. And as we've seen with the Winslow deal....when it comes to the owners there is a never ending source of a suckers who'll bite the big one and over pay for a guy. And the players deserve every penny of it. I wish O.D. well what ever happens. He truly represents a good blue collar NFL, hard working soldier.
 
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CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I suspect that the multiple TE draft picks of 2009 was in anticipation of what the ludicrous Winslow contract would bring to the Daniels negotiations.
 
My solution would be give him his million and promise not to franchise him next year. Both sides get what they want. O.D. gets his walking players and a long term deal in 2010 in an uncapped year from whomever. The Texans get congruency for 2009. The risk is on O.D.'s plate for sure. But if he's chasing the money....never going to have a better opportunity than an once a generation uncapped year to find the golden ring. And as we've seen with the Winslow deal....when it comes to the owners there is a never ending source of a suckers who'll bite the big one and over pay for a guy. And the players deserve every penny of it. I wish O.D. well what ever happens. He truly represents a NFL good, hard working soldier.
If 2010 is an uncapped year, that means, in all likelihood, that there is no new CBA. In that case, Daniels won't be a UFA. He'll have to wait until after his 6th season (2011) to be unrestricted. Now, I suppose the Texans could promise not to slap a tender on him next off-season, but that's a pretty steep concession to a player whose rights you still control for another two years.
 

Mike Kerns

LYSB Podcast
On the sportsflash on the radio, Kubiak made it sound like he didnt give a damn. He said something to the effect of "All that did was give reps to James Casey and Anthony Hill. They got a lot better today."

If Casey is all he is being hyped to be, OD should be worried about competing, not whining.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
Sorry Owen. I love your game. But with the way the world is right now, the last thing I want to hear is Athletes whining about money and contracts. Just my opinion.
Question for the board:

When do we get to complain about ownership whining about money and contracts? The team rakes in far more money than any player, they continually raise prices on tickets, parking, concessions, and miscellaneous stuff (PSL transfer fee, anyone?), and yet fans seem to complain about the players risking their bodies trying to get as much as they can. I don't know, it seems pretty f&^%ed up, if you ask me. The players should try for every bit of money they can get - the owners are. In this case, that's Rick Smith acting as agent for the owner.
 
Question for the board:

When do we get to complain about ownership whining about money and contracts? The team rakes in far more money than any player, they continually raise prices on tickets, parking, concessions, and miscellaneous stuff (PSL transfer fee, anyone?), and yet fans seem to complain about the players risking their bodies trying to get as much as they can. I don't know, it seems pretty f&^%ed up, if you ask me. The players should try for every bit of money they can get - the owners are. In this case, that's Rick Smith acting as agent for the owner.
When they're consistently leaving $10+ million in cap space. The Texans are usually right at the cap with just $3-5 million in wiggle room for mid season moves, added contract incentives, cap forwarding, etc.

If there were no salary cap Bob is the type of owner who would happily buy a championship.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
As a nation, we pay more and care more about professional sports than we do educating our children. When teachers make more money and have better facilities and smaller classes than is the case today, then maybe I'll care about cry baby professional sports players.

Sorry if that offends anyone, but the salaries of professional sports players compared to other necessary jobs in our society makes me sick. It shows our twisted priorities as a society.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
As a nation, we pay more and care more about professional sports than we do educating our children. When teachers make more money and have better facilities and smaller classes than is the case today, then maybe I'll care about cry baby professional sports players.

Sorry if that offends anyone, but the salaries of professional sports players compared to other necessary jobs in our society makes me sick. It shows our twisted priorities as a society.
I get that, but why exclude the owners? They can be as capitalistic as they want and rake in money hand over fist, but the players can't?
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
When they're consistently leaving $10+ million in cap space. The Texans are usually right at the cap with just $3-5 million in wiggle room for mid season moves, added contract incentives, cap forwarding, etc.
The afternoon guys on SR610 said on air that last season the Texans were 18th in the NFL in payroll, at about $109 million. They were 4th in terms of making money.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
I get that, but why exclude the owners? They can be as capitalistic as they want and rake in money hand over fist, but the players can't?
I include owners, agents, players, fans who buy season tickets and merchandise, cable companies and product manufactures who buy commercial time on NFL broadcasts. All are guilty. That’s right, even me.

As I said, I put the blame on society as a whole for this situation. When we value a wide receiver or a quarterback more than a school teacher or a fireman, something is wrong.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
I include owners, agents, players, fans who buy season tickets and merchandise, cable companies and product manufactures who buy commercial time on NFL broadcasts. All are guilty. That’s right, even me.

As I said, I put the blame on society as a whole for this situation. When we value a wide receiver or a quarterback more than a school teacher or a fireman, something is wrong.
Well, you won't get any argument from me on that, as it's really the underlying reason why I don't fault the players any more than I do the owners. The money is there, and it's going to be divided, so if I were a player, I'd be fighting for my share as well.

The fact that the money is there in the first place is the underlying problem, but not something that the players or owners have any responsibility to fix, IMO. They sell a product and people have the option to not buy.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Well, you won't get any argument from me on that, as it's really the underlying reason why I don't fault the players any more than I do the owners. The money is there, and it's going to be divided, so if I were a player, I'd be fighting for my share as well.

The fact that the money is there in the first place is the underlying problem, but not something that the players or owners have any responsibility to fix, IMO. They sell a product and people have the option to not buy.
It's just one of those things that irratate me, but it's not like anything can be done, and it's certainly not going to keep me from watching the NFL, or hoping OD comes back into the fold.

It just pisses me off, that's all.
 
Another new word that I have not heard before "tergiversation" :thinking:
Yeah me either. I had to look it up. Websters definition
Main Entry: ter·gi·ver·sa·tion
Pronunciation: \ˌtər-ˌji-vər-ˈsā-shən, -ˌgi-; ˌtər-ji-(ˌ)vər-\
Function: noun
Date: 1570
1 : evasion of straightforward action or clear-cut statement : equivocation
2 : desertion of a cause, position, party, or faith
Thanks again runner for expanding our vocabulary. :)
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
It's just one of those things that irratate me, but it's not like anything can be done, and it's certainly not going to keep me from watching the NFL, or hoping OD comes back into the fold.

It just pisses me off, that's all.

There are plenty of football players who don't get paid well.. They just aren't in the NFL. Similarly, go find salaries of teachers at some of the elite private schools in the country and I think you'll be impressed with what they make. It's pretty silly to compare the salaries of millions of school teachers with the salaries of elite football players.

Clearly, you either don't understand or you resent capitalism. That's okay, though. That is a popular perspective these days.
 

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
I don't understand why some of y'all are getting so bent out of shape. OD and Dunta will eventually sign their tenders and play for the Texans this season. There's really not much doubt in my mind that the Texans eventually reach a long term deal with OD and D-Ryans. Until then, they can either sign their tender's and play while deals are being worked out, or they sit home for the 09 season.

Practically every team in the NFL have been going through these situations for years. We have our first one and it's "X player needs to quit whining", "it's the Texans FO's fault" or "we can trade/cut player X because we have a rookie". Good grief

I, for one, don't give a frog's fat ass what OD, D-Ryans and Dunta get paid. It ain't my money. The only thing we fans should really care about is how it affects the cap. There are ways of giving certain players large deals with it still being cap friendly, no?

For those saying Dreessen, Casey or whoever could step in for OD, give me a freakin break. Hell, just last week everyone was saying pay OD and D-Ryans. Now OD holds out of freaking OTA's and he's being whiney and can move on without him.

My.02. Not that they're worth a damn
 
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Pantherstang84

@rolisrgti06
I don't understand why some of y'all are getting so bent out of shape. OD and Dunta will eventually sign their tenders and play for the Texans this season. There's really not much doubt in my mind that the Texans eventually reach a long term deal with OD and D-Ryans. Until then, they can either sign their tender's and play while deals are being worked out, or they sit home for the 09 season.
Practically every team in the NFL have been going through these situations for years. We have our first one and it's "X player needs to quit whining", "it's the Texans FO's fault" or "we can trade/cut player X because we have a rookie". Good grief
I, for one, don't give a frog's fat ass what OD, D-Ryans and Dunta get paid. It ain't my money. The only thing we fans should really care about is how it affects the cap. There are ways of giving certain players large deals with it still being cap friendly, no?
For those saying Dreessen, Casey or whoever could step in for OD, give me a freakin break. Hell, just last week everyone was saying pay OD and D-Ryans. Now OD holds out of freaking OTA's and he's being whiney and can move on without him.

My.02. Not that they're worth a damn
Well sign me up for the pay OD, and Ryans camp. My beef with the DR situation is not necessarily that he is holding out. It is just that he has been a titty baby about the whole thing from the beginning. However, he hasn't been doing too much crying to Solomon lately. Maybe he is learning to just zip his trap and let his agent do the talking. That would go a long way with the fans.
 

GP

Go Texans!
Two things are for certain: If it's Kubiak who's got his neck bowed this pi$$ing contest is already over. You're not going to out dig in an Aggie. And obviously, our capologist knows what the hell he's doing. We're not busting the franchise's cap for one guy no matter how good he is. Or thinks he is.
Owen Daniels will have no problem bolting the Texans and running over to the next team that will pay him what he wants. So he has no allegiance to this team, nor does any other fan favorite on this or any other team.

Therefore, I could give a rat's patooty if he gets his coin from us. If it's not friendly to the cap, and we can get draft pick (or a player) compensation for Daniels...then there's no use in paying him top TE money.

Can the two rookies replicate what OD has? Probably not. It'd have to be a rare sort of thing--Like what Daniels did when we drafted him and he came out of the gates running.

The guy has high stock right now. He's only going to get older and start breaking down at some point, even though he's still relatively young right now. Another 3 or 4 years doesn't do anybody any good.

I don't see the Texans over-spending for a TE. Maybe they would for a QB, or a RB, or a WR, or Mario Williams. But not for TE.

His trade value vs. long-term value is what's being considered, IMO.
 
P

Polo

Guest
I include owners, agents, players, fans who buy season tickets and merchandise, cable companies and product manufactures who buy commercial time on NFL broadcasts. All are guilty. That’s right, even me.

As I said, I put the blame on society as a whole for this situation. When we value a wide receiver or a quarterback more than a school teacher or a fireman, something is wrong.
What about strippers and prostitutes?

Many of them make more money than teachers...I'm pretty sure some here have spent money on one or both...

Personally, I don't blame anyone...If someone is willing to pay you, make your money...
 
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HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
Well sign me up for the pay OD, and Ryans camp. My beef with the DR situation is not necessarily that he is holding out. It is just that he has been a titty baby about the whole thing from the beginning. However, he hasn't been doing too much crying to Solomon lately. Maybe he is learning to just zip his trap and let his agent do the talking. That would go a long way with the fans.
I agree on Dunta. He would've been better suited to keep quiet.

Can somebody copy and paste the "Quotes from Day 12" from HT.com and PM them to me? I'm still having problems opening links from the site.

Thank you
 
P

Polo

Guest
I agree on Dunta. He would've been better suited to keep quiet.

Can somebody copy and paste the "Quotes from Day 12" from HT.com and PM them to me? I'm still having problems opening links from the site.

Thank you

(on TE Owen Daniels missing practice) “We’re obviously in the middle of a negotiation, and he is well within his rights to not come because these activities are voluntary. We’re wishing he were here like he was last week continuing to work with his teammates and we understand that. These things have a way of working themselves out. “


"We’re obviously in the middle of a negotiation, and he is well within his rights to not come because these activities are voluntary." - Rick Smith(on if he is bothered that there could be a trend of the team not being able to sign core players) “No, it doesn’t bother me at all. I think what’s important for us, number one, in this particular negotiation, is the reason why we’re talking is we feel like Owen is an important part of this football team. We talk about our philosophy in terms of building; you’re trying to take care of those young core players. We are doing that. And when you do that and when you negotiate, there’s a lot of variables that are in play and what you try to do is you try to come up with an agreement than benefits both sides. We’re in the process of doing that; that’s where we are. Sometimes those things are easier than other times. We’ve got a locker room full of players, so we know how to get deals done. So that doesn’t concern me.”

Head coach Gary Kubiak

(on TE Owen Daniels missing practice) "It's a voluntary workout and he's made a decision not to be here. If you've been in this league long enough, those things go on. It's part of the business. But it doesn't stop practice. We had a very good practice today. It doesn't stop when we have to be ready for a game in the fall. We just have to get back to work. There were more reps for Joel, and Anthony and Casey, so those three guys got better today."

Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan

(on how he feels going into his second year as offensive coordinator) “It’s a little more fun being in my second year; not everything’s my first time. I’ve done it before, I know what to expect.”

(on if things have changed since last year) “It’s not much. You’ve got to stay on top of football; you’ve got to keep adjusting. But we get to return our starters, all eleven guys. We had a pretty good year last year, so we’re just trying to get better and a little more detailed.”

(on if he will be calling all of the plays) “Yeah, definitely. That’s what I expect my job to be.”

QB Matt Schaub

(on his relationship with Shanahan) “We are the same age, so you can relate well to one another as far as life goes. That helps us bond and be able to talk to one another one on one, and not like coach to player but like man to man, and be able to understand things and what we want out of the offense.”

(on the progress over the last three weeks) “Every day, we’re getting better and we’re coming together. We have a lot of you guys that are coming on board and they’re picking things up. We taught at a pretty slow pace this year—one install for every two days—but it helps us really. Everyone gets on the same page and we didn’t have the mental errors that you usually see early in OTAs, especially from young guys. It’s a way to come out and shake the rust off and get back in the swing of football.”

(on how he approaches the last week of OTAs) “We will just continue with what we’ve been doing - keep gelling together and keep meshing and hashing things out so when we get to camp, we’re full speed ahead and we don’t have to repeat things and relearn things. We’re full speed ahead and ready to go.”

(on how much farther along he feels this year than at this point last year) “So much further. You mention coming in healthy off last season, whereas last year I had that shoulder surgery and I was rehabbing that. I just feel more comfortable and confident in what I’m doing and what the coaches expect since last year. I just understand the offense that much more. We know what we want to do; we know what we’re good at.”

(on if he feels more sturdy this year) “I think so. You don’t know; it’s hard to tell until you get hit, but I feel strong in there and that was one thing I wanted to build up was my strength, getting stronger, and I think I did that.”

(on if feeling stronger has improved his confidence) “I think so, internally, you just feel that much more comfortable to stand in there an extra half-second to deliver that pass down the field and not be so quick to try and get out of the pocket.”

(on what new wrinkles we’ll see in the offense this year) “I’d like to say more quarterback runs, but I don’t know if that’s going to happen. No (laughs). You know, we know what we do well. We’re not going to try and deviate, we’re not going to try and reinvent the wheel. Our offense is what made us successful last year, so we’re just going to keep doing those things.”
HT.com
 

TEXANRED

Texan-American
A TE's bread and butter and ability to make a pay check is what he is able to do in red zone situations. We finished in the 20's in points scored last year. IIRC correctly he finished with two or three TD's last year? We were in the Red a lot and he just hasnt shined at any point in his short career by scoring points. OD's success is due to the system he plays in. Dressen can do the same thing he can.

We went out in the draft and got ourselves a blocking TE and OD's replacement in Casey. TE is very, very deep on this team.
 

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
A TE's bread and butter and ability to make a pay check is what he is able to do in red zone situations. We finished in the 20's in points scored last year. IIRC correctly he finished with two or three TD's last year? We were in the Red a lot and he just hasnt shined at any point in his short career by scoring points. OD's success is due to the system he plays in. Dressen can do the same thing he can.

We went out in the draft and got ourselves a blocking TE and OD's replacement in Casey. TE is very, very deep on this team.
It's OD's fault we aren't scoring in the redzone? He can't throw himself the ball. Let's start by improving the run game and decreasing the amount of TO's in the redzone before we start placing blame on OD.

I'm sorry, but Dreessen doesn't even compare to OD. He'll be lucky to make the team next year if Casey proves he's ready.

OD is one of our core players. He isn't going anywhere.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Well sign me up for the pay OD, and Ryans camp. My beef with the DR situation is not necessarily that he is holding out. It is just that he has been a titty baby about the whole thing from the beginning. However, he hasn't been doing too much crying to Solomon lately. Maybe he is learning to just zip his trap and let his agent do the talking. That would go a long way with the fans.
Not that simple... what about Pitts, Walter, DRob, R.Butler... not to mention Slaton will be do a renegotiation soon, Bennett will be a RFA after the season, along with Diles and Jacoby Jones.

The organization has to handle this season very carefully. Because the '06 off-season was so good, what happens with that group of players will determine how successfully the franchise moves forward. Giving too much to those guys means trouble in the near future.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Winslow isn't worth the kind of money that Winslow got.............
Never said he was once. But the fact is that he got that deal, and that MIGHT cause Daniels to say "Hey, I think I'm better than him and I want that kind of cash too." If so, then I'll pass especially when the Texans just drafted a very good blocking TE and a multi dimensional pass catching utility type of TE.

The Texans are a conservative team, so if we were to pay Daniels chunks of cash, you can forget about them spending that extra money on other players on the defense like we really need them to right now. I'd rather that money go towards our offensive line right now or some holes that need to be filled on the defense. I'm not saying that we shouldn't give OD a nice pay raise because we should, but we've got a lot of depth at the TE position right now, and we might be able to still get quality production there.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I really don't think OD would be as easy to replace as people make him out to be. For a while people were saying that Dreessen was as good as OD and would be able to take his spot...I'm not convinced. OD has proven himself in our system, and for that simple fact ALONE he is deserving of a contract, not something crazy, but maybe more than what the Texans offered him initially.
I agree. I don't think OD is as easy to replace as many think, but that's just my opinion.

As a nation, we pay more and care more about professional sports than we do educating our children. When teachers make more money and have better facilities and smaller classes than is the case today, then maybe I'll care about cry baby professional sports players.

Sorry if that offends anyone, but the salaries of professional sports players compared to other necessary jobs in our society makes me sick. It shows our twisted priorities as a society.
I get that, but why exclude the owners? They can be as capitalistic as they want and rake in money hand over fist, but the players can't?
And don't forget, ALL of them make this kind of money because they get to play in taxpayer-funded stadiums. What other industry has cities building the facilities that let's them make this kind of money? Think of the jobs created if the city/county were willing to build a manufacturing center for IBM or other companies.

This country's obsession with entertainment is scary.
 
Not that simple... what about Pitts, Walter, DRob, R.Butler... not to mention Slaton will be do a renegotiation soon, Bennett will be a RFA after the season, along with Diles and Jacoby Jones.

The organization has to handle this season very carefully. Because the '06 off-season was so good, what happens with that group of players will determine how successfully the franchise moves forward. Giving too much to those guys means trouble in the near future.
This is really a first for this organization. Other than AJ and pehaps Pitts--oh, yeah, and Carr--this is really the first time the team has had a player who, at the end of his rookie deal, was clearly in position to demand a hefty raise, and now we've got a number of those guys. This is what happens.

I'm not too worried about our TE productivity in Owen's absence. We will certainly take a step back, but that step isn't so big as to justify a Winslow contract. Forgive my plugging the Schaub bandwagon, but Matt made a number of tight ends--not just Heath Miller--look very good at Virginia. Patrick Estes and Kase Luzar never did a thing in the pro's, but they were quite productive when Matt was their QB. Another way to look at it: Daniels was far less productive in Sage's starts.

Daniels is clearly a plus tight-end, but the cupboard is hardly bare at the position. I'd hate for him to go--his jump move to set up the winning FG in Lambeau was brilliant--but we now have some hard choices to make.
 

Runner

Hubcap Diamond
Staff member
Can someone point me to the source of OD asking for Winslow type money? Barring that, can we stop implying that he did just to make him look bad and the team look smart?

I know, the answer is no to both.

I think it is just as likely that the team is resisting a fair long term offer since he can't go anywhere else for two years anyway. They have a big stick with the CBA issue, why not use it?
 

AcresHomesTexan

No Longer Arlington: Escaped From Jerry's World
Staff member
And don't forget, ALL of them make this kind of money because they get to play in taxpayer-funded stadiums. What other industry has cities building the facilities that let's them make this kind of money? Think of the jobs created if the city/county were willing to build a manufacturing center for IBM or other companies.

This country's obsession with entertainment is scary.
Cities and counties make deals with large corporations all the time. Tax breaks, land and other perks are given as incentives to bring factories or corporate headquarters to a location is routine fare. They are not as public discussed and obvious as stadiums, but far from unusual.
 
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