Offensive Coordinator Woes

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by texansfan, Nov 18, 2004.

  1. texansfan

    texansfan Rookie

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    I love the Texans and that is why this hurts to say, but we need to change our Offensive Coordinator. He does nothing but try to out-think himself. I feel he is so concerned with not doing what is suspected that he fails to uphold the integrity of a drive, and the misuse of Andre Johnson is near unforgivable. I am aware of our line struggles, but even with just a three step drop you could attempt to get Johnson deep. Every other team that has a receiver the caliber of Johnson will take chances to get them the ball. Just throw it up when there is only one or even two defenders, on occasion, not always. What makes them the good receivers is that more often then not they come down with the ball. Johnson has proven he has the skills to do this, but it seems the coaches, or perhaps quarterback (although Carr is going to be a great quarterback), have failed to acknowledge it.
    Use Johson and the whole offense would open up. We may even be able to run effectively again.
    Our offense doesn't need to be so vanilla with the talent we have there, and our offensive coordinator needs to wake up or be gone. If Capers holds this position, he needs to hand it to someone else with some imagination.
     
  2. TexansTrueFan

    TexansTrueFan Hall of Fame

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    well see our OC tries to open up the passing game through the running game, last week in the first quarter every time we had the ball we would run 1st, 2nd down and then have to throw on 3rd, maybe if he could be a little more creative in his play calling it would help Johnnson get the ball more and maybe help out D.D in the running game ! Our offense is so predictable i usually know what they will call be fore they even snap the ball, so if i know u know the other team knows !
     
  3. wags

    wags Hall of Fame

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    Wrong. Our first drive the first three plays were passes. We gained zero yards and had to punt. Our O-coordinator calls passing plays 58.5% of the time. Get off this run-run-pass issue.
     
  4. TexansTrueFan

    TexansTrueFan Hall of Fame

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    so your telling me that you didnt see us run on 1st and 2nd down a lot in the last game ? I record all the games and i watched it just to se and we had many many series where we run 1st and 2nd, and that stat is lop sided we make up for the lack of passing when we are way down in the game and have to pass ! Trash time is all it is !
     
  5. Meloy

    Meloy Hall of Fame

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    The Denver & Colt teams ran cover 2 defenses which is difficult to succeed with long passes. Most teams are assigning two defenders to Johnson anyway. I think it is up to Gafney and our back to make the defense pay with over the middle completions. It would also help if Johnson would hold on to the pass when it hits him in both hands. Most people predicted a loss to both of these teams prior to season.

    The original message said the O.C. was trying to make the other team not suspect what we are going to do. Er, I thought that was his job? Rare is the team that does exactly what the defense expects and gets away with it. I hear a lot of disappointment here and that's cool. I do think having your starting right tackle out would make a big difference on most teams. Let's see how we do against teams we should beat this last 7 games.
     
  6. texansfan

    texansfan Rookie

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    My only points are this. 1. I beleive Johnson to be our most explosive offensive weapon and it is hard to see why we are using him so little. People double team Moss and Owens, yet they still get the job done. They are given opportunities in and near the endzone. When all else fails just give him the chances to make plays. That's his job.
    2. The O.C. is outguessing himself. In an obvious running situation this would appear to be his thought process. ---Ok, they are expecting a run up the middle, so I should pass to the outside, but they know it looks like a running down and thus will suspect the outside pass- So, I'll just run up the middle- they'll never expect that. That seems to be the process he goes through, and helps explain the brutal plainess of our offense.
     
  7. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    This is so irrelevant and oversimplistic. However, I do agree with your premise that the OC is a problem. The best example of that is the 1st play of the game. It was a straight 7 step drop by Carr and Wand was left by himself to block Freeney. It's alarming that they wouldn't have a game plan focused on helping the 1st year starter block the only dynamic defensive player on that team- especially to start the game, to give him a chance to adjust to the speed and his moves, etc... To me that 1st play shows a serious lack of preparation on the part of the offensive coaching staff....

    Oh yeah, and the OL stinks!
     
  8. aj.

    aj. Hall of Fame

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    The Texans had 27 1st and 2nd down "opportunities" in the game. The play selection went run - run 8 out of the 27 times, meaning they did something other than run-run on 1st and 2nd down combinations 70% of the time.

    There is not a large disparity in the stat between the first and second halves. The Texans had (8) 1st and 2nd down opportunities in the first half and went run-run 3 times (37%). In the first quarter they had 4 opportunities and went run-run twice (50%).

    This is by far the biggest myth perpetuated by the Fire Palmer crowd who think they see things that aren't there. It's typically a function of focusing on the failures and taking the successes for granted.
     


  9. Jwwillis

    Jwwillis All Pro

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    Can't throw to AJ if you dont establish the run. This has been proven over the last 2 games. Everybody knew the ol Green Bay sweep was coming on 1st in the Vince Lambardi days...Vince simply said "Lets see ya stop it." Of course most times they couldnt. If the run gets stuffed 8 times in a row, it doesnt mean you stop trying the rest of the game or you are doomed to falure.
     
  10. aj.

    aj. Hall of Fame

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    Carr's comments in the Chronic today:

    "We have to run the ball effectively and get some play action going so they can't use the extra safety to cover (AJ). We have to make them come down in the box and stop the run. If you don't have an effective running game, they can double everybody...and I'll be sitting back there like last week, looking for somebody to throw to and we've got no chance."

    The comment about making them come down in the box to stop the run is especially troubling since Denver and Indy were able to wreck the Texans OL by rushing 4 and keeping 7 back - so it didn't matter if you dropped back to pass on every down because no one was open and our 5 o-linemen couldn't keep 4 DLs out of Carr's face.
     
  11. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

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    You have to run the ball a good amount of the time to keep Carr alive because teams will tee off on him if they know that we wont run the ball. I am happy with the mix of pass/run that Palmer gets in...
     
  12. TexanExile

    TexanExile A New Hope

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    I'm one of those people who wants to throw something at the TV when I see those run-run-incomplete pass 3-and-outs. But you can't argue with the numbers. It's been that way pretty much all season.

    AJ's right...the myth about constant run-run is because we tend to focus on those failures rather than the drives where we get 3rd-down conversions. On scoring drives, we generally only remember the scoring play (or a big play, if one set up the score). I'm guilty of it too during the games, but a look at the full stats for the game at NFL.com always clears it up.
     
  13. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    Need to scratch point 1. From today's Chronicle:

    So AJ has been the target on more than a third of Carr's passing attempts, and don't forget that includes all the passing attempts to TE's and RB's.
     
  14. Jwwillis

    Jwwillis All Pro

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    I remember the Campbell days, and even he couldnt win a game (consistantly) for the Oilers if they couldnt establish a passing game. Ala Steelers steel curtin or the old Browns at home in late December. They camped on Campbell and made Pastorini beat em. I remember before Campbell all we had was the Pastorini/Burroughs combo. If they happen to connect on a bomb that is the only time they would score. I used to wait for that to happen every other week or so, so i could finally see an Oiler highlight on Monday Night Football halftime. Truth is, all championship teams have to have ballance. At least a threat of one or the other. Both do not have to be dominate but one has to be good enough to keep the D honest. The Texans currently are more dominate in the passing attack and the run only has to be a threat. When Wells first started a game this season he was not dominate but gained 100 quality yards and the passing game opened up, and is where the Texans did all there damage. The Texans lately have been unable to get 1 yard on the ground to convert the down. What that tells me is that they are losing the battle on the line (on both sides of the ball btw) The O was not prepared for the speed the Colts had off the line, using the Arti-turf as an advantage. Some of those moves the D-line a backers made are not possable on grass. I'll take the loss and no blown ACL's.
     
  15. texansfan

    texansfan Rookie

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    How many of those 91 attempts were over fifteen yards, or into the endzone? How many were wide receiver screens or instant stop routes?
    I understand the need for the run, and to establish it as a threat, but until we have a line capable of that we need to at least acknowledge the weakness. I really wasn't saying run the ball less, only take advantage of the weapon available in Johnson.
    Around the time our offense opened up happened to also be the games with Johnson catching deep throws. So what came first, the chicken or the egg.
    Also, inside the ten, how many times have you seen Owens, or Moss when he was in, catch an easy quick slant for the touchdown? How many times have you seen Johnson do this?
    My comments are truly only in frustration after two bad losses with Johnson getting maybe 90 yards combined. He's a weapon. Use him as such.
     
  16. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

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    Well, a lot of those passes to AJ havent been deep ones and have been short routes because teams are doubling AJ on every play and taking away the deep ball so Palmer is trying to find ways to get it into his playmakers hands...

    Double Coverage = No Deep Ball
     
  17. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    AJ is #2 in the AFC in receptions over 20 yards, #5 in the NFL.

    Carr has 37 passes over 20 yards and 4 over 40. Look around the league and you will see that makes him competitive with Favre, Culpepper, McNabb even with the poor performances of the last two weeks.
     
  18. kuno

    kuno Rookie

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    You dont run, you dont win. You guys are not the "freak of nature" Colts. Gotta run the ball...
     
  19. Tedc

    Tedc Hardheaded

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    I am more concerned that we are not getting the tight ends in the game. Sometimes when the line is not holding up for the run, a quick pass to the TE can open things up for it. A five yard pass is sometimes the equivelent of the run.

    BTW, I saw a stat that when we get our tight ends into the game, we have a record of 4-1 and we are 0-4 when we don't.

    The extra blocker and occasional reciever doesn't hurt.
     
  20. HJam72

    HJam72 Hall of Fame

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    I like the tight-end idea. I think more passes to the tight-end would open up the running game some and it might even let Andre and Gaffney get some of those slant passes that some of you are asking for. That part of our game has been missing.

    Overall, this team is made up of young, inconsistent players and older veterans that stay injured a lot. We need the young core of this team to get a little bit older and we need a few more draft picks also. We're getting there. For now, Jeckyl and Hyde is better than just plain old ugly Hyde all the time.
     

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