Morlon Greenwood - why the negativity?

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by gtexan02, Jan 28, 2007.

  1. gtexan02

    gtexan02 Working?

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    Whats the deal with all the negativity towards Morlon Greenwood? Why do people want to cut him? Why do I seemingly always see his name on the same list as many of our old and busted "cap saving" hits out there?

    Let me say these things about Greenwood:
    Is he being paid too much? Yes, absolutely. But we are VERY thin at OLB, he is a very consistant producer, and he has steadily increased his big play ability every year.

    I mean, why is everyone disapointed? He is doing BETTER here than he did in Miami! We have a young guy, who is a solid, but not spectacular, OLB who can make the occassional big play.

    This year he had 109 tackles (1 more than his best season at Miami), 1 sack, 1 INT, 2 FFs, and 3 fumble recoveries. Those are all either career highs or close to career highs.

    So hear me out: He's young, he's solid, and he plays a position we sorely need help out. Why is there so much talk about cutting him?
     
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  2. TexanFan881

    TexanFan881 Hall of Fame

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    I don't know. I like Morlon Greenwood and feel the same way. I think he's been solid for us and wouldn't mind having him start for us for awhile.
     
  3. gtexan02

    gtexan02 Working?

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    PS: Just to compare, Shantee Orr, our other OLB this season, finished with a whopping 32 tackles and 1.5 sacks.
     
  4. mexican_texan

    mexican_texan Furry Tractors

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    It's all about the Benjamins.
     
  5. gtexan02

    gtexan02 Working?

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    It would be if we had other people to come in and play. But at this point, giving up proven members of our team to save a few million to sign unproven players doesn't make any sense.
     
  6. baba ganoush

    baba ganoush Veteran

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    yes, he's young...restructure his contract, give him less money and more years, but he can still have the oppurtunity to make bug money...as long as he stays consistant he's okay in my book...
     
  7. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    greenwood is our current version of jay foreman. sure his stats are decent but he's getting his tackles well behind the LOS and is always behind the play. he (like foreman) also cant cover for squat. he isnt much of a pass rusher. besides the flaws in his game, his salary is way out of line.

    sure we're thin at the position, but if it's going to benefit us in the future to cut him now, i'm all for it. if we can pay him less to play as a backup or spot starter until we're stronger at LB, that would be fine with me.
     
  8. TEXANRED

    TEXANRED Texan-American

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    B/C in my opinion an OLB should be able to get sacks and cover. Both of which Greenwood is unable to do.

    Is he better than Orr? Yes.

    Would Greenwood be a second or third stringer for any of the other 31 teams, absolutely.
     


  9. TheOgre

    TheOgre Hall of Fame

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    I think people are still going off of his 2005 performance and are not aware that he was solid this year. He is definitely overpaid, but he is one of the only five on defense (Mario, Weaver, Demeco, and Dunta are the other four) that will most definitely start in 2007.
     
  10. mexican_texan

    mexican_texan Furry Tractors

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    As in we're giving him too much as compared to his play.
     
  11. SF49erFaithful

    SF49erFaithful Crabtree FTW

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    An honest question here......so what is the deal with his contract? He is being payed a bundle, but why?
     
  12. TEXANRED

    TEXANRED Texan-American

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    Casserly.
     
  13. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

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    Morlon Greenwood was another in a long line of "bad fits" signed by the previous administration here. He was an ok (as usual) 4-3 LB who was signed by the Texans for too much money (as usual) who was then asked to play out of position (as usual). I swear sometimes it's like our old front office went out of it's way to find ways to set guys up to fail.

    So in 2005 he comes in and doesn't live up to his salary or billing. Nobody with a clue is surprised by this. He draws a mountain of criticism and enters the 2006 season as a lot of peoples new "Phillip Buchanon". I guess that was mainly because you can only get upset about Buchanon for so long and then you just start to not care, but I digress....

    So he plays better in 2006 but there are still people who think he needs to go. The fact is he doesn't need to go and he's probably going to be more effective next season than he was this year. Shantee Orr (as much as I like the guy) is the one who needs to go. If we could have Greenwood, Ryans, and Wong playing at his "career best" we'd be fine at LB. Sadly we have Wong post-injury so we need someone new to step into Orr's spot.

    Greenwood however is fine. They should leave that man alone and let him get truly comfortable in this defense at that spot. Then he'd be an overpriced free agent signing that actually paid off instead of one more guy who cashed his Texans checks and then went on to play well somewhere else. We have too many of those out there already.
     
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  14. t_flare

    t_flare Veteran

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    He is just plain average. I really dont hear neg stuff about him but he is average in coverage and average in stopping the run. Orr is below average but he gives energy. I say Orr is a bigger problem than Greenwood. He is not a pass rusher but average everywhere else
     
  15. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    better doesnt mean good, and we hope everyone is more effective next season after having a full year and an offseason to adjust to style & system. greenwood's problem is his aggression. when he drops into zone, he finds his mark and sits there, not bothering to shade TE's and receivers ... he's also much worse than both orr and ryans at moving blockers. the plays he makes are the ones that land in his lap, just like foreman. shantee orr is very high on my keep list, not because he's great (because he's not), but because he's good at what he does and comes with intensity. orr's a backup lb making next to minimum, is a strong pass rusher (having more sacks in 05 than greenwood's entire career), and a good special teamer. i'm not sure i've seen anyone recommend that orr be a starter, because he shouldnt. greenwood is the equivelant of baseball's utility backup. he's not good enough in any area to be a starter, but he's not terrible at anything. since we're thin at the position, greenwood fits, but not at his price. at a severe discount, he'd be a good backup that can spot start or backup either OLB position without hurting the team.

    the player noone's mentioning is wali rainer who during last offseason was receiving the highest of praises as defensive team leader until the injury. i'd be much more inclined to start wong, rainer, and even give troy evans a shot over greenwood. what is certain though is that we need to find atleast 1 more solid player to add depth or start at OLB, and with smith/kubiak's work last season i think we'll be able to do that relatively easily.
     
  16. dbspi

    dbspi Veteran

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    His play is nothing more then average yet he is getting paid like top 5 OLB. Texans need to restructure his contract or need to cut him. This just goes to show you how ineptitude our previous administration were. Till this date we are paying the price for their mistakes.
     
  17. gtexan02

    gtexan02 Working?

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    Half of the people on this post are proving my point perfectly. Unfounded criticism for a solid performance this year.

    1) He racks up tackles well behind the LOS --
    Do you have proof of this, or are you going on last years stats? It was true last year, with stats to back it up, but you don't rack up 110 tackles as an OLB if you just sit way back. You never heard a complaint from the coaches, I never saw him backpedaling before a tackle, and frankly you don't rack up 110 tackles as an OLB in a 4-3 if you just wait for the guy to get there.

    2) He brings no energy --
    How in the world are you suggesting this? Just because he doesn't get called for a lot of encroachment penalties or roughing the passer calls, don't misinterpret it as a lack of energy.

    3) He's always behind the play --
    Always? Really? Making tackles from behind is incredibly ineffective, and as thus, how in the world do you make 110 tackles as a 4-3 OLB?

    4) He can't cover worth squat --
    Again where is this coming from? Do you have a quote from coaches, particular game film, or is this just a hunch of yours? Last season I saw him knock off 6 passes, and this season he bumped 2 and picked one off. TEs didn't kill us like they normally do, either. And how do you know his defense isn't being called by the team? Just because he's not set to man up on a RB or TE, and may be in a spy or short zone to watch for the draw doesn't necessarily mean he's not good at coverage. IMO, unless you know for certain what his defensive assignment is, or hear the coaches say that he is poor in coverage, watching the games isn't going to be enough evidence.

    5) Shantee Orr should be kept because of his energy or his 05 production --
    Guess what Orr did this year? Nothing. His production was because of the 3-4 defense. He proved this year he is awful in a 4-3 setup. He didn't tackle well, he didn't rush the passer well. Unless we have some data to indicate that the opposing offenses ran to the weak side 3x more often than the strong side I don't think I would feel comfortable with him being anything more than 2nd or 3rd string.

    I think people are scapegoating Greenwood based on 05s performance. The fact of the matter is that he had almost career numbers in every category. He played better this year than he did throughout his entire career at Miami. And he was part of a very good Miami LB corp.
     
  18. yourfavoritetexan42

    yourfavoritetexan42 Veteran

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    I think he is a good role player. Someone who we can have there and just get the job done. However he is overpaid. We should keep him as long as he performs, if he starts to slide or gets a big injury, than cut him, other than that it doens't hurt to have him around. We don't really have the luxury of cutting healthy players because they are overpaid, because we don't have anyone else to fill in.
     
  19. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    prove your own point. what outside of espn.com can you say good about greenwood? tackles? jay foreman racked up 140+ tackles in 02 with no offense, send him to the probowl. you're asking for proof but arguing subjective points, please provide your own proof. he had his best season as a pro behind a line of walk ons, lead by 2 rookies? i need more proof than that. with any luck TK saved some games and will let us diagnose some play by play.

    greenwood is an after-the-fact player. i cant prove this (i lost my DVR with every game recorded about 3 weeks ago ... i'm pretty aggrivated about that), but from what i can recall he was hiding behind demeco and sitting aimlessly in short-intermediate zone coverage. when we blitzed the right side it had very little effect and greenwood was stoned any time he was touched while ryans instinctively found holes.

    orr is no example to favor greenwood because orr is a situational backup and special teamer ... get back to me after comparing salaries & roles. noone's saying he should start so dont reach for a crutch. as a pass rusher, orr has proven that he's able to get to the quarterback ... racking up 10.5 sacks in 2.5 years compared to greenwood's 6 in 6 years. shantee orr is the linebacker version of antwain peek, greenwood is the 4-3 version of jay foreman. he does the job eventually but is essentially a lump IMO and shouldnt be a starter ... receiving top tier money for a utility backup is poor management.
     
  20. TexanAddict

    TexanAddict Texan 'til I Die

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    I agree with most of what is said here. Greenwood was not a good fit in the 3-4 and in 2005 made all his tackles 5 yds or more down field. Last year, he still had trouble keeping containment, but did make most of his tackles closer to the line of scrimmage and did help create some big plays and turnovers. He seems to be a much better fit in his current role and is by far not the weakest starter on our defense, or even in the LB corps for that matter. That distinction goes to Orr, who didn't do much of anything last year.

    Orr was consistently fooled by play-action and play fakes, blocked inside, lost containment, and very often was not near the play when it was over with. He was a better fit in the 3-4 and showed he was a decent pass rusher from that position. However, the LB position should not be measured by sack numbers alone, especially when most of those sacks came from a defensive system we are no longer using. I agree that Greenwood is currently over-paid, but his production last year was solid, and we need upgrades at several other spots on defense before WLB, and in order they are...FS, SLB, CB.
     

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