More interesting comments by Kubiak.

Discussion in 'College Football & the NFL Draft' started by mussop, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. mussop

    mussop Hall of Fame

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    In McClains latest article there were a few things that stood out to me.

    1.) If a defensive player the Texans like falls, they could trade up a couple of spots. If they get an offer they can’t resist to trade down, that’s a possibility, too.

    This is the first I have heard that trading up is a possibility. Of course I think this is McClain speculating.

    2.) “Obviously, that’s important,” Kubiak said. “We went the Cedric Benson route in free agency, and it didn’t work out. It’s a little nerve-racking, but you can’t force something.

    “At least we know we have a good young one in Slaton. Hopefully, something good will happen there.”

    It’s nerve-racking for Kubiak because, in all likelihood, he’s going to have to rely on a rookie running back for the second year in a row.

    “If we can add another one, either somebody whose style is close to Steve’s or someone a little different, that would make us better,” Kubiak said. “The perfect complement is a bigger, more physical guy who’s good in short-yardage and goal-line situations.

    “We’d love to draft a back who turns out to be as good as Steve. And we’re not looking for a guy who’s just a backup player. It takes two backs to get through a season.

    “In a perfect game, maybe you could say (Slaton) gets 22 touches and the other gets 10 or 12. When you go after him, you have to pick somebody you think is capable of starting a few games.

    “For Steve to hold up for 15 games was amazing. Hopefully, that’ll continue, but you have to be prepared just in case.”


    Seems Kubiack is worried more than we thought about getting another RB.

    3.) The Texans won’t be drafting a running back in the first round. Their backs are different because they play in the zone scheme in which the back makes one cut and takes off. Slaton had never played it, but he excelled in it.

    Did McClain just say that Slaton never played in a ZB offense before????? Do youre homework McClain. Slaton played at West Virginia who copied Denvers ZB scheme years ago and ran it Slatons entire career there.

    4.) “As far as where we might get that back, well, you don’t know that until you evaluate the draft and set your board and see how many good ones you have rated to go in what round,” Kubiak said. “If there are eight backs you really like, then you know you’ll probably have to go in the first three rounds to get one.

    “If there are 15, then you might be able to wait until the fourth or fifth rounds.”



    I found this interesting. Kinda gives us an insight of how they aproacch the draft.
     
  2. Specnatz

    Specnatz Site Contributor

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    More crack reporting by John McClain. We could trade up or we could trade down or we could stay where we are. Well NO SHIT [​IMG] I am glad you pointed that out. I mean way to cover your ass and not go out on a limb there buddy.

    Hey john wouldn't Kubiak be relying on slaton a second year guy and have the rookie backing him up? so how is that relying on a rookie a second year in a row? WOW more great reporting from the typewriter of the Double Chin investigative reporter.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
  3. El Tejano

    El Tejano Hall of Fame

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    And isn't Ryan Moats a veteran too?

    Based on what Kubiak said about the bigger small yardage kind of guy, I believe that there are still some in FA but I could understand with wanting to go with the younger guy in the draft. It certainly sounds like a RB we draft is going to get his fair share of carries so I could see us going 3rd round on RB.
     
  4. beerlover

    beerlover Site Contributor

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    I'm treading lightly around the messinger & focusing on the details.

    All the big money has been spent on defense in free agency (Dunta Robinson, Antoine Smith, Shaun Cody). Now the draft is almost here & the Texans are gonna spend all the big money (1st/2nd rd. picks) on defense too? even when its clear to everyone (except Kubiak) that bpa are gonna be offensive playmakers.

    Moreneo would solidify the Texans backfield for remainder of Matt Schaubs tenure. you want to make sure he stays healthy, has the weapons & depth needed to play a full season.

    Wells is the big power-back to compliment Slaton. Not a huge fan based off program success rate for position & his personel injury history. Still he could be a huge homerun if healthy & his character checks out.

    Donald Brown is the complete feature back, very durable & productive this years Matt Forte clone. He would be another excellent complement to Slaton can do it all, can't go wrong with him.

    Then you have a couple slot receivers/special teams/wildcat rb playmakers like Percy Harvin who looks simply electirc & Jerrmy Maclin who can stretch the field opposite Andre Johnson.

    On a talent scale alone all the players I listed above should grade out higher than Clay Matthews the III. Worst case scenero if you can't stop em outscore em. Give the fans some excitement, add some speed & playmaking ability while ensureing the team has finally the depth to sustain competitive advanatage for all 16 games.

    I would be interested to see what the Texans current salary cap number reflects as it compares offense vs. defense? I'm only guessing, but it would seem to favor defense cap space well above the offense (60/40)? If they go defense in draft than obviously that number goes even higher (70/30)?

    I would think the Texans are very aware of this & could afford to take one of these offensive bpa sceneros listed above before investing more on defense despite the USC LB man love being touted. what happens if Slaton goes down? we already know what happens without Andre, I just don't see the value going LB in the first when the offense is so close to really becoming elite & the best players available in the draft are just sitting there waiting to be picked :specnatz:

    http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=3030&play_clip=Y
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
  5. ChampionTexan

    ChampionTexan Site Contributor

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    Kubiak from the article:
    McClain's comment is based on Kubiak's implication that the Texans are going to need to rely on more than one back, so even if the rookie's only a backup, they'll still need to rely on him.

    Jeez folks, McClain is obviously not the hardest working tool in the shed any more, but some of you need to realize that things aren't automatically wrong just because he says them.
     
  6. El Tejano

    El Tejano Hall of Fame

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    This post has got to be one of the best speculations ever on this board because of the info you put in it.

    I would be happy with Knoshawn Moreno. I've liked the kid ever since I saw him play against Hawaii in the Sugar Bowl. Since then, I've only seen a kid that runs extremely hard, fights for every yard, can go inside or outside, is a good pass blocker and is an overall great talent.

    If you notice what he says in the article: "And we're not looking for a guy who's just a back up player. It takes two backs to get through a season."
     
  7. Ole Miss Texan

    Ole Miss Texan Hall of Fame

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    Beerlover, you need to quit writing good posts. I've gotta continually spread rep around.;)

    I completely agree with this post. The closer we get to the draft, I'm starting to see that the more highly rated players will most likely be on the offensive side of the ball. We all want defense, but I wouldn't be surprised if an offensive player were selected.
     
  8. bah007

    bah007 Hall of Fame

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    If we want a back in the first then just take Donald Brown. Trade back if we can.

    I think Beerlover's comparison to Matt Forte is right on.
     
  9. Ole Miss Texan

    Ole Miss Texan Hall of Fame

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    I've been pretty high on Donald Brown. I think he'd be the perfect RB to pair with Slaton even though both are fairly similar. I know most people want a huge bruiser that is just the opposite of Slaton, but I suspect we're going to go after someone pretty similar. I see Kubiak wanting to keep the two pretty equal and can see either RB starting any given sunday. I think a lot will depend on "who had a better practice that week". We'll hear that a lot this season :)

    I'd love to get Brown with our 2nd but think there's no way he lasts that long. I would prefer to trade down into the early/mid 20's and get him there. The guy is going to be a stud in the NFL.
     
  10. bah007

    bah007 Hall of Fame

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    I'm dead certain that Brown doesn't make it past #28.

    If we just have to go RB in the first then Brown is my guy. Trade back a little and take him.

    I don't buy the idea that to have an effective RB combo you have to have a "Thunder" and a "Lightning". You just have to have two good backs.

    Brown is my favorite back in this class. He isn't the physical specimen that Wells is. He didn't play in the SEC like Moreno did. But he carried a team on his back and got results. He is a one cut and go type of back. He has a good attitude. That's our guy.
     
  11. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    It sure sounds like a RB on the second day! :cool:
     
  12. TexansSeminole

    TexansSeminole Hall of Fame

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    I'll take Moreno over any RB in this class X 2. Moreno is going to be a very good NFL RB IMO.
     
  13. Polo

    Polo Guest

    Moreno @ 15. sold.
     
  14. threetoedpete

    threetoedpete Hall of Fame

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    alrighty.... realistically mock the next four defensive guys....and that's the point....
    I like Brown also.....
     
  15. awtysst

    awtysst Draft Guru

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    Didn't Kubes say we needed to get a starter in the first? If so, then the only offensive players that could start would be a Center or LT(if you Brown is better suited to OG). Slaton is the starter at RB and Kubes even said a perfect situation would be Slaton getting 20 carries and the new guy about 12. AJ and KW are the starting WRs, Schaub is our QB, OD is TE, and Leach is our FB. So if we go offense, it would have to be an Oline positon.

    This is why i think we go D in round 1. We can certainly use a OLB, CB, DT, DE, and FS. We have spent more money on D in the off season because it was so weak. We had a prolific offense with a Defense that was very weak. Step 1, we fired Smith. Step 2 we started getting players. None of the moves we have done thus far has convinced me that we have solved any of our D problems. Therefore, D in round 1(and possibly round 2) seems like the best way to go.

    Of course all of this is also based on BPA, so we will see whats out there.
     
  16. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

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    I've also gotta go along with the point B-L made, the best players in this Draft available when we're picking will probably be offensive players and drafting need instead of best talent on the Board is a losing philosophy long-term.
     
  17. TimeKiller

    TimeKiller Guest

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    What if we need the best player available? Don't pick him because you need him?

    As it stands my short list goes a little somethin' like this:

    C Matthews
    V Davis
    M Oher
    M Jenkins
    K Moreno
     
  18. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    OMT, can you imagine what Beerlover would be like if he didn't drink beer? J/K as I too look forward to posts of his. What is puzzling to me is a few weeks ago I posted that another back similar to Slaton would be very interesting. At the time I was pushing Ian Johnson, but he has dropped off my board. Many were irate that I suggested having two speed backs would be good. I just ca not see Kubes taking a back in 1st. Now if Jenning is there in 2nd, maybe. Again, unless one of the premier type D guys fall to #15, Orakpo, Raji (my guy) or Jenkins, I am hoping ofr a trade like last season. Now if we get say a #25 + a 3rd and 5th or 6th and Brown falls?

    My lower round guy from Virginia Cedric Peerman is moving up the boards per Walters to 3-4 round probably due to his combine speed of 4.45. I had him on my board in 5th. 5'10" 216 but now Walters has him at 211lbs.
     
  19. ChampionTexan

    ChampionTexan Site Contributor

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    First of all, I love your post - well thought out and logical, but having said that, let me play devil's advocate for a second.

    First, from a financial standpoint, Orlovsky's contract is pretty much identical to Cody's (based on the info available right now anyway), and Robinson was simply a function of the fact that his contract was up, and no big contracts were up on the offensive side. It reflects contract timing more than an conscious allocation of the big money. You also ignore OD's tender (which right now would give him the 11th highest cap number for '09), and DA's contract match. So really, the only thing that reflects a desire to pour money into the defense is Antonio Smith, and while some may argue that Smith wasn't the right solution, I doubt anybody would argue there wasn't a problem that needed a solution.

    Here, I'm a little bit in the camp of those who claim that if the Texans didn't elect to take a first round back last year, when the need was arguably more severe, why would they take one this year. Last year they passed on every back in the draft except McFadden and Stewart in order to trade down to #26. They also didn't take an RB with their second pick (first 3rd round pick), although admittedly there were none that were taken between that pick and the Slaton pick later that round. I know that it's generally believed that Kubiak tried to trade up and pick DeAngelo Williams in 2006, but that was as he was picking up a team who's leading rusher (Dominick Williams/Davis) was an injury problem, and the second leading rusher (Jonathan Wells) never played another NFL down after the 2005 season. The fact that Slaton performed as well as he did being a mid-third round pick only strengthens my belief that the Texans don't view a 1st round RB as a realistic possibility.

    Alot of the philosophical points applying to RB's also apply here. I've said on this board before that anything (including the Texans receivers corp) can be upgraded, but with finite resources, you have to think really hard about upgrading arguably your strongest unit at the expense of far weaker ones.

    And if this is truly the case, there is very possibly going to be somebody willing to trade up to get our spot. But if they can't trade down, will the team that drafted Duane Brown at 26 even though most "experts" had him ranked as a second rounder (and yeah - I'm well aware of Norv Turner's statement) go with a Maclin or a Wells if a defensive player in their top 20 or so (and by that I'm hoping that I mean Matthews or Cushing) is available?

    This was actually the main reason I wanted to respond to your point, as I found this a very compelling question. In manipulating the unofficial data on In the Bullseye (which includes all recent signings except Cody), it was pretty interesting. While I came up with some differences in their addition that I couldn't identify, the breakout of the '09 cap values was Offense - 49.83%, Defense 37.06%, Special Teams 2.92%, and dead money 10.19%. I don't think it's valid, but if you want to split out the dead money between units, the numbers become 53.22% for offense, and 43.81% for Defense with ST unchanged, and .05% being unidentified.

    This is primarily due to 8 of the top 13 cap numbers being offensive players. It also sheds alot of light on why the offense is so much better than the defense, and potentially validates the concept of the draft being so heavily weighted towards defense.
    But in my mind, the difference is quality of starters. While I don't think we have any huge needs, the reality is when you look at our starting 22, and consider the positions where a #15 pick in this years draft could realistically beat out a starter, you might have one or two positions on the O-Line (although I really don't think Kubes and Gibbs are open to that), and then you get into the arguments of could a Wells or Moreno beat out Slaton, or a Maclin or Harvin beat out Walters(Questions that probably won't be answered even if we do end up drafting them). On the Defensive side, you have Mario, Antonio Smith, DeMeco, Dunta, and maybe Amobi who have essentially zero chance of losing their starting positions to a first round pick. Everybody that's left is could very realistically lose their starting job to a #15 pick. It wouldn't be a given, but certainly a possibility.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
  20. Ole Miss Texan

    Ole Miss Texan Hall of Fame

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    I was initially in favor of a different kind of back to pair with Slaton but have changed courses. I originally viewed it as Slaton is the #1 guy and the 2nd RB is a backup. I now think that the RBs are going to be used a lot more interchangeably so it would make sense to me to have two similar backs of "equal" talent alternating and then having a 3rd guy as the bruiser. That's what I'm going with for now though.

    Also, I'm beginning to not want to stress the word "starter". I think that can be a misinterpreted word. In the running back situation, I see them splitting carries a lot and not having such lopsided carries- that assumes the RB by committee system is incorporated like S. Slaton and D. Brown.

    On defense, I wasn't so fond of a situational kind of player. Ie- a pass rusher that is used occasionally. In reality, be it a DT, OLB, etc. I'm more focused on how and when they will most likely contribute. I care less about a "starter" out of the 15th pick and would just assume a player that gets "starter snaps". A player may not be the starter on snap 1... but if he's in on a great deal of plays throughout the season- that is the key and the important issue here. Their Impact on our team and the game.
     

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