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Mighty Quin on proposed trade

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
i'm saying that Williams is a fast powerful Defensive End and to get rid of such a play maker would be foolish, especially to bring in a guy who recently came off of a bad injury.
But why are you saying W. Phillips needs to go?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Normally, the LDE is covered by a tackle and a TE. He almost never plays the 9 technique (which is lining up very wide, even wide of the TE).
I don't think so Dale.
Mario played the 9 technique very often.

I haven't break down his games this year; but the previous year, he was equally effective as a strong side end as a weak side end.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I agree that Mario played better on the strong side of the formation..He seems to thrive when he's consistently engaging blockers...

Put him in space and he looks a little less comfortable...
I asked, not because I didn't know, but because Mario always followed the TE. He didn't play RDE or LDE, he played Strongside DE, wherever the TE lined up out of the huddle, that's where Mario was.

In Wade's 3-4, he'll line up the exact same way.

The Weak Side OLB will be our rush LB.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
But why are you saying W. Phillips needs to go?
well i'm sure it would be wade who was the determining factor on the trade. considering its his style of defense and he's needing certain "types" of players. I'm sure he's saying who we need and who we don't. You think if he hadn't come here that trading Mario would of ever come up ???
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
well i'm sure it would be wade who was the determining factor on the trade. considering its his style of defense and he's needing certain "types" of players. I'm sure he's saying who we need and who we don't. You think if he hadn't come here that trading Mario would of ever come up ???
It didn't come up by anyone other than a radio talk show host that is not even from these parts!
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
It didn't come up by anyone other than a radio talk show host that is not even from these parts!
i'm not saying its true, i know its all speculation, but i'd be pretty mad IF it did happen. Do i think it will ??? NO, but u never know.
 

Yankee_In_TX

Dance Lindsay!
This won't go down, because this is not a trade proposal. It's not on the table, Denver is not talking to Houston. Houston is not talking to Denver.

This is just a figment of some nobody's imagination whose whole schtick is saying things that outrage his listeners so they call in and argue.
Fixed it for you.
 

gary

Hall of Fame
Mario is the more all around DE but both of them are good at what they do. Neither one stays healthy which is the problem I have with this.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Normally, the LDE is covered by a tackle and a TE. He almost never plays the 9 technique (which is lining up very wide, even wide of the TE).
Mario plays the 9-tech mostly in a front called the Miami front (from Jimmy Johnson - Hurricanes to Cowboys).
It's a 4-man Over Front with the strong side DE lining up outside the TE.
A quick scan of the Colts game in week 1 shows him there at least a dozen time in the first half.
There's benefit both against the run and the pass because Mario is such a monster (when he's healthy.)
You can try to imagine why or I can come back to it later.

It's nothing new since we had used Mario this way for quite a few years already.

Not only that, when we're in the Under Front, as the weak side rush end, we also lined him up wide (sometimes as wide with the same spacing as if there's a TE there and he's a 9-tech).

We do that in a 3-man front at times as well.

It's not just Mario, we use other DEs that way from time to time as well.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Basically, in the Miami front, Mario plays pretty much as an OLB in the 3-4 (the SAM), except with hand(s) down.

When we bring another OLB up to the other side (Cushing for example), some of our 4-man fronts are exactly the same as some of Wade's 3-man fronts (but mostly with Mario putting a hand down even though he did play standing up once in awhile.)

I just pulled up the Giants game, and this one is one variation:
(8:04 in the first, on first and ten).

Mitchell at NT (directly over the C)
Smith at strong side end (directly over the RT), same as basic strong side 3-4 DE
Okoye at weakside DT (directly over the LT), same as basic weak side 3-4 DE
Mario at weakside DE, outside Okoye, lining up as a 9-tech, same as a 3-4 rush LB (the WILL), except with one hand down.
Cushing at SAM, outside the TE, same as the 3-4 SAM.

This is why I said that I can see Mario playing multiple positions in Wade 3-4.
He already did with the Texans!
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Mario plays the 9-tech mostly in a front called the Miami front (from Jimmy Johnson - Hurricanes to Cowboys).
It's a 4-man Over Front with the strong side DE lining up outside the TE.
A quick scan of the Colts game in week 1 shows him there at least a dozen time in the first half.
There's benefit both against the run and the pass because Mario is such a monster (when he's healthy.)
You can try to imagine why or I can come back to it later.

It's nothing new since we had used Mario this way for quite a few years already.

Not only that, when we're in the Under Front, as the weak side rush end, we also lined him up wide (sometimes as wide with the same spacing as if there's a TE there and he's a 9-tech).

We do that in a 3-man front at times as well.

It's not just Mario, we use other DEs that way from time to time as well.

when I've seen Mario line up on the strong side, I remember him lining up over the TE (perhaps shading his outside)... he almost always engages the TE and sometimes the Tackle... Perhaps that is a 9 technique... It's not what I picture, though, when I think of it.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
The self proclaimed "Mighty Quinn" is a insufferable gas bag who's more than worn out his shtick. My ears bleed listening to him give himself verbal fellatio on air. Listened to him when he first came to town, because he was different, but can't stand him now, because it's now all forced...can't wait until his yankee ass gets canned.


That is all. :soapbox:
 

Texan_Bill

Hall of Fame
The self proclaimed "Mighty Quinn" is a insufferable gas bag who's more than worn out his shtick. My ears bleed listening to him give himself verbal fellatio on air. Listened to him when he first came to town, because he was different, but can't stand him now, because it's now all forced...can't wait until his yankee ass gets canned.


That is all. :soapbox:
/END Thread!!!!!
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I dont listen to mighty Quin.

I'm guessing he's anti BoB,Rick and Gary.

What do you disagree with him on. Or is it he's all schtick?
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
I dont listen to mighty Quin.

I'm guessing he's anti BoB,Rick and Gary.

What do you disagree with him on. Or is it he's all schtick?
That, there's actually things we agree upon. But I can no longer stand to listen to his show. The best thing about that show is it only lasts two hours, he's the Rush Limbaugh of sports talk radio...and if he read this post, he'd would probably take this as a complement, because Rush Limbaugh is a huge success and then he would ramble on about how smart he is for at least 45 minutes. :rolleyes:
 

b0ng

Bad Hombre
I dont listen to mighty Quin.

I'm guessing he's anti BoB,Rick and Gary.

What do you disagree with him on. Or is it he's all schtick?
It's not that I disagree with him, but he will always point out anything he's ever been right on in the past and will then do some self back-patting anytime he feels fancy. I also get the feeling that will have takes that are pretty far out there so he can spend the show defending himself and talking down to the callers. Also his delivery when he's making a "big point" is pretty grating, and just reminds me of a guy who is either entirely overconfident in his team or completely down on them and there is no middle ground.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
For Christ's sake, look at the photo he uses at the website.



He might as well have douche tattooed across his forehead....and there's plenty of forehead to stamp that tattoo on, you could probably even squeeze in a bag :)
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
For Christ's sake, look at the photo he uses at the website.



He might as well have douche tattooed across his forehead....and there's plenty of forehead to stamp that tattoo on, you could probably even squeeze in a bag :)
Photo says it all.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It's not that I disagree with him, but he will always point out anything he's ever been right on in the past and will then do some self back-patting anytime he feels fancy. I also get the feeling that will have takes that are pretty far out there so he can spend the show defending himself and talking down to the callers. Also his delivery when he's making a "big point" is pretty grating, and just reminds me of a guy who is either entirely overconfident in his team or completely down on them and there is no middle ground.
I will have to listen to him. I'm not a middle ground person.

With that said I dont care for this type of bait and argue type of talk show.
 
The self proclaimed "Mighty Quinn" is a insufferable gas bag who's more than worn out his shtick. My ears bleed listening to him give himself verbal fellatio on air. Listened to him when he first came to town, because he was different, but can't stand him now, because it's now all forced...can't wait until his yankee ass gets canned.


That is all. :soapbox:
Heh. So true. Except, I listened to him at first because he was the better of three evils during lunch. But, now that 1560 dumped Brando, I finally have a better option. Haven't touched 790 during lunch since.

I must admit, it was comical to listen to him fumble through some ambivalent, non-responsive answer when callers would call in with a technical question. He can handle the subjective, "Hey, Dillon, how come the Texans didn't sign Julius Peppers last year!? Is that why they didn't go to the playoffs?" questions. But, ask him about the intricacies of NFL rules and he deflects the question.

I also remember him talking about how Jahri Evans was a scrub the Saints didn't need to re-sign while Bushrod was a future all-pro after the Saints won the SB.

Dude's an tool. He's essentially the anti-Pallilo.

You'd think 790's standards would be higher now that they improved their line-up so much. He's old 790 standard quality. They'd do well to replace him.
 

BigBull17

Hall of Fame
Man, it kills me to continue to see people act like Mario Williams is some guy that can't be parted with by some fans here. We had one of the worst pass rushes in the league before Mario got here and we still have one of the worst pass rushes in the league since he's been here. Mario is a good DE, but he is not a game changer on defense.

If Dumberville wasn't coming off a major injury this trade would be a no brainer. His salary wouldn't bother me that much at all really, but his injury was pretty bad. Mario is constantly having nagging injuries though or always has some sort of problem going on with him. Either way, he's nowhere near the player people try and act like he is around here and he's had a lack of motivation type of problem since college and I can't stand players like that especially on the Dline where you have to have a high motor. I doubt this has anything to it though. Mario is one of those guys that Bob sees as an investment because of his hype and his stature. Mario could put up 4 sacks and he'd still be looked at as a beast around here. Bob cares about money and Mario has the fan support because he was a #1 draft pick and hasn't been arrested. He's going nowhere.

If Mario doesn't excell in this 3-4 defense or gets injured this season his stock won't be worth jack after this season compared to what it is now though. I'd love to see him traded while the value is still pretty high. It's not like it would hurt the worst defense in the league either way.
I agree that no one is un-trade able, but Mario isn't "just a guy" like some people act like he is. I know you are not. If he doesn't produce this year, then it's time to move on, but I would like to see him in a defense that isn't run by Gary's baby sitter.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
when I've seen Mario line up on the strong side, I remember him lining up over the TE (perhaps shading his outside)... he almost always engages the TE and sometimes the Tackle... Perhaps that is a 9 technique... It's not what I picture, though, when I think of it.
No, in the Miami front, Mario always lines up outside the TE (9-tech) or wider.

On run play to the strong side, Mario could step up a couple of yards into the backfield (taking away the D gap). He also pushes the TE toward the inside; and because he's so strong for the TE to handle, he's quite successful at pushing the TE past the C gap.
In another word, he can take care of two gaps even though his main responsibility is only the D gap.

There are times when he's such a monster, he shuts down the whole side (D gap plus part of the alley and the C gap.)

If he's on the weakside, by doing the same to the offensive tackle, Mario makes it very difficult for any cut back run toward the weak side.

In the passing game, Mario is simply to strong for the TE to handle (if he stays back to block.)
If the TE releases, the strong side offensive tackle has a long way to slide over to take on the block.
On the other hand, Mario is so quick, he can get past the edge and go after the QB.
If the offensive tackle wants to slide over quicker, he normally has to get up off his bend/hunch. And when he plays high like that, it's easy for Mario to bull rush him into the QB, or push him back and get to the QB to the inside.

Every time I rewatch the Colts game in week one, I wish Mario can stay healthy. He was simply a one-man wrecking crew out there!
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I agree that no one is un-trade able, but Mario isn't "just a guy" like some people act like he is. I know you are not. If he doesn't produce this year, then it's time to move on, but I would like to see him in a defense that isn't run by Gary's baby sitter.
While Mario may not like it (I don't know if that is true or not) we'll just be creating another hole, if we were to let him go. I've got faith in Antonio & Amobi to be able to play the DE position in a 3-4, but not a whole lot.

I think we have enough problems trying to put together a roster as is, no reason to create more.

I also think keeping Gary & bringing in Wade is Bob's latest effort to make something happen now. That being the case, I don't think he's too worried about the good trading Mario now can have for the future. Good or bad, I think that's the way we're going.

If he doesn't produce this year, chances are we'll lose him next year, with no compensation, or franchise him...... it's a predicament we got our selves in, and we'll just have to deal with it.

If there is no contract extension (maybe hard to do with the CBA & all right now), this summer, we may be seeing the end of Mario's career in Houston.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
In the passing game, Mario is simply to strong for the TE to handle (if he stays back to block.)
If the TE releases, the strong side offensive tackle has a long way to slide over to take on the block.
On the other hand, Mario is so quick, he can get past the edge and go after the QB.
If the offensive tackle wants to slide over quicker, he normally has to get up off his bend/hunch. And when he plays high like that, it's easy for Mario to bull rush him into the QB, or push him back and get to the QB to the inside.

Every time I rewatch the Colts game in week one, I wish Mario can stay healthy. He was simply a one-man wrecking crew out there!
I like Mario just as much as the next guy. & I've seen some of the things you point out. But his game can be, and really should be (by now) better than what it is. He's an outside guy/bull rush...... and very rarely does he go to the bull rush. As athletic as he is, he should be able to stunt outside, fake outside, or punch an OT to the outside, then cut back inside/under..... or even develop a spin back to the inside. Once he can do that, & actually mix it up, then he'll be a monster. Then he'll be able to take over games.

Now, I'd say he's above average, beastly when 100% like at the beginning of the 2010 season. But nowhere near where he should be at this point in his career.

I liked Kollar, I like what he did with what he had in Buffalo. I expected Mario to benefit & develop with a real DL coach. I know it's only been 1.5 seasons, but I'm wondering what he's waiting on.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I like Mario just as much as the next guy. & I've seen some of the things you point out. But his game can be, and really should be (by now) better than what it is. He's an outside guy/bull rush...... and very rarely does he go to the bull rush. As athletic as he is, he should be able to stunt outside, fake outside, or punch an OT to the outside, then cut back inside/under..... or even develop a spin back to the inside. Once he can do that, & actually mix it up, then he'll be a monster. Then he'll be able to take over games.

Now, I'd say he's above average, beastly when 100% like at the beginning of the 2010 season. But nowhere near where he should be at this point in his career.

I liked Kollar, I like what he did with what he had in Buffalo. I expected Mario to benefit & develop with a real DL coach. I know it's only been 1.5 seasons, but I'm wondering what he's waiting on.
Mario injured his hip in the third practice but play through it.
But then he got a groin injury that lingered until they had to put him on IR.

His teammates knew he had been struggling with the injury for a while, but fellow defensive end Antonio Smith realized it had gotten worse during Monday night's loss to Baltimore.

"He was fighting and you could just tell that he was in a lot of pain," Smith said. "It was hard to play with. It hindered him in this last game to the point where I knew it was something seriously wrong. After one play he just stopped and ... said: 'Man I think something's really wrong.'"


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5923473

It was eventually diagnozed as a sport hernia:

Following sporting activity the person with athletic pubalgia (sport hernia) will be stiff and sore. The day after a match, getting out of bed or a car will be difficult. Any exertion that increases intra-abdominal pressure, such as coughing, sneezing, or sporting activity can cause pain. In the early stages, the person may be able to continue playing their sport, but the problem usually gets progressively worse.

As pain in the groin and pelvis can be referred from a number of problems, including injuries to the lumbar spine, the hip joint, the sacro-iliac joint, the abdomen, and the genito-urinary system, diagnosis of athletic pubalgia requires skillful differentiation and pubic examination in certain cases where there is intense groin pain.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I like Mario just as much as the next guy. & I've seen some of the things you point out. But his game can be, and really should be (by now) better than what it is. He's an outside guy/bull rush...... and very rarely does he go to the bull rush. As athletic as he is, he should be able to stunt outside, fake outside, or punch an OT to the outside, then cut back inside/under..... or even develop a spin back to the inside. Once he can do that, & actually mix it up, then he'll be a monster. Then he'll be able to take over games.

Now, I'd say he's above average, beastly when 100% like at the beginning of the 2010 season. But nowhere near where he should be at this point in his career.

I liked Kollar, I like what he did with what he had in Buffalo. I expected Mario to benefit & develop with a real DL coach. I know it's only been 1.5 seasons, but I'm wondering what he's waiting on.
Cant rep you

Spot On analysis. I dont know if MW will ever get what you speak of here. Plus MW is an injury waiting to happen. If a guy (MW) is only good for 5-6 games and great for 2-3 I dont see that as being elite.

Hometown fans always tend to overrate the hometown guys. What's scary is the talent that MW has if he was to go somewhere else and have his drive match his god given ability. He would be a multiple time all-pro and the Texans brass would have egg on their collective face.

The problem is so far in college and the pros his production hasn't met up to his ability. TK sitting here today would you sign MW to a big contract extention? I dont think I would as of right now. Because that $$$$ could be better spent on several players and the team would be more well rounded.

If MW comes in and adapts to Wades defense and has a really good yr. (I'm not just talking about sacks.) Then I would have to reconsider that decision.

BTW I would be concerned if MW has a big 2011 season that after he gets paid his effort level would drop. This is the conundrum facing McNair.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Cant rep you

Spot On analysis. I dont know if MW will ever get what you speak of here. Plus MW is an injury waiting to happen. If a guy (MW) is only good for 5-6 games and great for 2-3 I dont see that as being elite.

Hometown fans always tend to overrate the hometown guys. What's scary is the talent that MW has if he was to go somewhere else and have his drive match his god given ability. He would be a multiple time all-pro and the Texans brass would have egg on their collective face.

The problem is so far in college and the pros his production hasn't met up to his ability. TK sitting here today would you sign MW to a big contract extention? I dont think I would as of right now. Because that $$$$ could be better spent on several players and the team would be more well rounded.

If MW comes in and adapts to Wades defense and has a really good yr. (I'm not just talking about sacks.) Then I would have to reconsider that decision.

BTW I would be concerned if MW has a big 2011 season that after he gets paid his effort level would drop. This is the conundrum facing McNair.

I'd have to treat Mario just like the Titans treated Haynesworth: let him play out his contract this year. Then, if he dominates, franchise him in 2012 and prepare to let him walk in 2013.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Cant rep you

Spot On analysis. I dont know if MW will ever get what you speak of here. Plus MW is an injury waiting to happen. If a guy (MW) is only good for 5-6 games and great for 2-3 I dont see that as being elite.

Hometown fans always tend to overrate the hometown guys. What's scary is the talent that MW has if he was to go somewhere else and have his drive match his god given ability. He would be a multiple time all-pro and the Texans brass would have egg on their collective face.
How many players have we had go on IR?

What was the deal with DD? How long did it take Dunta to recover? OD?

I've got my fingers crossed, that it isn't Mario.... but whatever it is, Wade sniffs it out & get's rid of it.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
I'm not sure if any of you were lsitening to 1560 on the way to work yesterday but interesting story by Lance. Seems Mario is really into riding his Harley around. He hangs with a group of guys who rides bikes around. LZ says one of his buddies in that group and that Mario tells them all the time that football isn't the most important thing. The context of the conversation was having a guy like AJ Hawk or others who live and breath football. Do the Texans have many guys who take the job as their life. I've never looked at Mario as a guy who is fully committed or always in the game. Special talent but not a guy I'd be afraid to lose for the right price.
 

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
I'd have to treat Mario just like the Titans treated Haynesworth: let him play out his contract this year. Then, if he dominates, franchise him in 2012 and prepare to let him walk in 2013.
This

If Mario doesn't make more of an impact, the Texans shouldn't pay him the big money in 2013. I am all for franchising him in 2012 though. I would also be open to a trade if he doesn't start kicking some ass.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I'm not sure if any of you were lsitening to 1560 on the way to work yesterday but interesting story by Lance. Seems Mario is really into riding his Harley around. He hangs with a group of guys who rides bikes around. LZ says one of his buddies in that group and that Mario tells them all the time that football isn't the most important thing. The context of the conversation was having a guy like AJ Hawk or others who live and breath football. Do the Texans have many guys who take the job as their life. I've never looked at Mario as a guy who is fully committed or always in the game. Special talent but not a guy I'd be afraid to lose for the right price.
I like Mario, but honestly, this doesn't surprise me at all. People keep bringing up Bruce Smith for comparison, but I just don't see the fire and passion in Mario that I saw in Bruce for many, many years.

I think AJ is, without a doubt, one of those "football is my life" players. I'm not sure how many we have, but I'd be willing to bet we have at least a few more (at least from public persona, since that's all we have to judge by). DeMeco seems like one, as well as...ummm...maybe Cushing?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I like Mario, but honestly, this doesn't surprise me at all. People keep bringing up Bruce Smith for comparison, but I just don't see the fire and passion in Mario that I saw in Bruce for many, many years.

I think AJ is, without a doubt, one of those "football is my life" players. I'm not sure how many we have, but I'd be willing to bet we have at least a few more (at least from public persona, since that's all we have to judge by). DeMeco seems like one, as well as...ummm...maybe Cushing?
Football is only a diversion
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
Does anybody remember the #1 knock on Mario Williams when he was coming out of NC St?

:thinking:


His best season as a pro is when he was trying to prove the national media wrong. I still like him though, just don't see how he fits this system.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
I'm not sure if any of you were lsitening to 1560 on the way to work yesterday but interesting story by Lance. Seems Mario is really into riding his Harley around. He hangs with a group of guys who rides bikes around. LZ says one of his buddies in that group and that Mario tells them all the time...
That has to be accurate. A radio host knows a guy who rides Harleys with Mario. We're supposed to take something like this seriously?
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Pretty sure based on a peek you've taken in his garage or pretty sure based on personal speculation ala some certain radio host?
Pretty sure based on his being a speed freak and having seen a report of his buying a GSXR at one point.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
That has to be accurate. A radio host knows a guy who rides Harleys with Mario. We're supposed to take something like this seriously?
Thank you.

I posted it because it was LZ. I'm not saying the guy us infallible or knows all but he is pretty much, along with Harris, as close to football gurus as we have here in town. He also, because of his Dad, is in the know with agents, other players, etc. I don't think it really would have been brought up unless he trusted the source. Again, you can take it for what its worth but to me it fits the Mario we see to a tee. It was just something presented for public consumption. Considering he has been right on many similar issues over the year....the facts on Cushing suspension, etc... I thought it was worth a post.

Don't kill the poster. Geez. You know me, I make a habit of rumor mongering.:rolleyes:

And it would have been any bike...he said bikes and I assumed Harley due to size of the crotch rockets out there.
 
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