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Love or Hate...Offensive Lineman Film

Wolf12339

Wolf12339

Waterboy
Those of you who have watch Film of the 2019 Offensive Line class. What are two players film that either really surprised you in a good way and a couple that left you disappointed.

The two that really surprised me was Connor Mcgovern and Tytus Howard.
-Connor Mcgovern is strong and moves so well for a Guard. I'd love to get him in the 3rd.

-Tytus Howard was a complete surprise to how well rounded he is on run blocking and Pass Blocking, and the back story of him being a QB his Freshman year was nuts..

Film I did not like
Greg Little- I had no idea what a poor run blocker he is. The only time his defender is on the ground is if the guy tripped. Its comical to watch him have to pull and get out to block.. Will never be mistaken for a Glass Eater or Finisher.

Who's film did you guys Love or Hate?
 
I really liked the film I saw on Andre Dillard, his footwork, agility, athleticism really jumped out at me. He might not be the greatest run blocker for a LT but he's young and he'll get stronger. I want my LT to be able to protect Watson's blindside first and foremost. If he makes it into the 15-20 range on draft day, I'd trade up and get him, no use tempting fate when you can have a franchise LT for the next 10-12 yrs..

I also liked the film I saw on Dalton Risner, another guy with great size, quick feet, agility, athleticism. I'm not sure he can make the move to LT and his injury history worries me. I'd leave him at RT or move him inside. If he can avoid injury, he could be very good for years to come.

Another guy I liked his film was Cody Ford, I'm not saying he'd ever be a LT, but if you leave him on the right side I think he could be dominant for years to come. Quickness, good feet, squares up his blocks, decent knee bend but could be better, good/not great slide step, power etc... I think he could also dominate at OG as well.


I really disliked the film I saw on Greg Little as well, great measurable but slow feet. If he plays LT he's going to get abused by speed rushers and get someone's QB killed. I'd move him to OG.
 
Wolf12339 said:
Those of you who have watch Film of the 2019 Offensive Line class. What are two players film that either really surprised you in a good way and a couple that left you disappointed.

The two that really surprised me was Connor Mcgovern and Tytus Howard.
-Connor Mcgovern is strong and moves so well for a Guard. I'd love to get him in the 3rd.

-Tytus Howard was a complete surprise to how well rounded he is on run blocking and Pass Blocking, and the back story of him being a QB his Freshman year was nuts..

Film I did not like
Greg Little- I had no idea what a poor run blocker he is. The only time his defender is on the ground is if the guy tripped. Its comical to watch him have to pull and get out to block.. Will never be mistaken for a Glass Eater or Finisher.

Who's film did you guys Love or Hate?
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I haven't seen any film on on Tytus but had concerns about his lateral quickness and movement. His times at the Combine were very slow in the 3 Cone Drill (8.34 secs) and 20 Yard Shuttle (4.87 secs). Compare this to Dillard's numbers (7.44 sec 3 Cone/4.4 sec Shuttle) or even Davenport's numbers (7.57 sec 3 Cone/4.69 sec Shuttle) and you can see some cause for concern. Based on what you saw on film is there any reason we should be concerned about his lateral quickness as a LT? Also, do you think Tytus is worth the Texans taking him at #23?
 
Insideop said:
I haven't seen any film on on Tytus but had concerns about his lateral quickness and movement. His times at the Combine were very slow in the 3 Cone Drill (8.34 secs) and 20 Yard Shuttle (4.87 secs). Compare this to Dillard's numbers (7.44 sec 3 Cone/4.4 sec Shuttle) or even Davenport's numbers (7.57 sec 3 Cone/4.69 sec Shuttle) and you can see some cause for concern. Based on what you saw on film is there any reason we should be concerned about his lateral quickness as a LT? Also, do you think Tytus is worth the Texans taking him at #23?
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.04 sec is a lot?

I've seen no one suggesting Howard at #23, but #54 yeah
 
JB said:
.04 sec is a lot?

I've seen no one suggesting Howard at #23, but #54 yeah
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Not sure where you got the .04 from but to the NFL Scouts and Coaches some of those differences in the times that I did post could be pretty significant and possibly an indicator of a players lateral movement. Those fractions of a second don't sound like much to you or me but to some of the Scouts, Coaches, and GM's it could mean all the difference in the world as to whether they will draft that player or not. It's just a small part of the overall picture of a players ability and may not even factor in very much to some of the the teams come draft time. But, to other teams it could be the difference in them taking a player or not.

No, I haven't seen anyone suggest they take Howard at #23. Just asking a question to Wolf if he thought Tytus was worth it based on what he saw on the film. Tytus has been all over the place on the boards but generally seems to be moving up!
 
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Insideop said:
I haven't seen any film on on Tytus but had concerns about his lateral quickness and movement. His times at the Combine were very slow in the 3 Cone Drill (8.34 secs) and 20 Yard Shuttle (4.87 secs). Compare this to Dillard's numbers (7.44 sec 3 Cone/4.4 sec Shuttle) or even Davenport's numbers (7.57 sec 3 Cone/4.69 sec Shuttle) and you can see some cause for concern. Based on what you saw on film is there any reason we should be concerned about his lateral quickness as a LT? Also, do you think Tytus is worth the Texans taking him at #23?
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No, I wouldn't pick him at #23 but he will go in the first 40-45 picks in my opinion. He moves very well, has good length and is 3 years removed from being a 200 pound QB. He's very smart and wants to be good.
 
IDEXAN said:
You don't think Tytus has a higher ceiling than Davenport ?
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We don’t know that yet do we? Let it play out. Think that’s Texan thought too. But yeah, Davenport was a 4th rd pick for a reason, that doesn't mean he can’t develop into a decent starter even if he is just a bear and not the dancing kind.
 
I read the main question to this thread as 'do you love or hate watching ol film'..

And whether or not that was the intent ... my answer is I kinda hate it a little. I feel more competent than not, but not nearly as confident in my assessments as I do more perimeter players. Can only assume this goes back to what positions one played/watched/studied growing up and so on.

Backs, dbs, wrs ... I feel pretty strongly about. Have fun with it and have a great deal of confidence in my evals.
LBs ... enjoy and feel god about overall.
DL ... feel good but they can kind of run together after awhile.
Tight ends ... mostly pretty good but not entirely (blocking being the big bugaboo).
OL ... it's honestly a chore and I've really got to focus on what I'm looking out for, while still feeling wishy washy at times.

Taking the thread on a bit of a tangent here, but I think it's an interesting question this time of year. Anyone else have similar thoughts?

(if this needs to be elsewhere, it's own thread or whatever, I'll let cak or whomever feel free to decide/move it)
 
JB said:
Why don't you like Taylor/ and more specifically Edwards?
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Edwards needs to get much stronger, he had a back injury last yr and I'm very leery of picking a young guy that already has had back injuries. I think Taylor, while talented is very overrated, a guy with his talent should've been much more dominant in college. He probably will end up with a Cordy Glenn type career.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Jenkins would also be a great pick. Martin would be put on notice.
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He is my interior OL draft crush this season. Handles the bullrush better than any other prospect and has started at 4 positions on the OL. I hope it's a smokescreen by Gaine and the team's lack of interest in interior OL prospects. This guy is Houston Texan worthy!

*bangs table*
 
So has anyone watched film on Chris Lindstrom, OG? I’ve only watched two of his games and I just don’t see the hype. This guy occasionally will drive someone off the line well but other than that I don’t see anything special. What am I missing?
 
The guy who I've been most interested in has been Cajuste. The evals seem to be all over the place with him. I'm aware he has some injury concerns but is there something else I'm missing about one of the few true LT prospects out there?
 
mussop said:
So has anyone watched film on Chris Lindstrom, OG? I’ve only watched two of his games and I just don’t see the hype. This guy occasionally will drive someone off the line well but other than that I don’t see anything special. What am I missing?
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Lindstrom can get to the 2nd level, get out on screens, and handle stunts and blitzes. Basically, everything the Texans interior linemen can't do.
 
Lucky said:
Lindstrom can get to the 2nd level, get out on screens, and handle stunts and blitzes. Basically, everything the Texans interior linemen can't do.
Click to expand...


Yeah I’ve read the scouting reports. I’m asking if anyone has actually watched this guy on film? He can get to the second level quickly but seldom does anything good there. Again gets out in screens quickly but doesn’t usually block anyone. Defenders easily disengage from him. He does pick up stunts well. He’s decent inside a phone booth. When he pulls inside tight areas he does well. Out in space he’s lost. Strange considering his athleticism.

Again I’ve only watched 3 full games (Miami, Clemson and temple) and most of his games highlights. He played better against temple but still not seeing this “stud” OG I keep reading about. So I’ll ask again, has anyone watched a game where this guy lives up to his scouting report? From what I’ve seen he is one of if not the most over rated players in this draft. I’m scared to death we are going to draft this guy.
 
mussop said:
Yeah I’ve read the scouting reports. I’m asking if anyone has actually watched this guy on film? He can get to the second level quickly but seldom does anything good there. Again gets out in screens quickly but doesn’t usually block anyone. Defenders easily disengage from him. He does pick up stunts well. He’s decent inside a phone booth. When he pulls inside tight areas he does well. Out in space he’s lost. Strange considering his athleticism.

Again I’ve only watched 3 full games (Miami, Clemson and temple) and most of his games highlights. He played better against temple but still not seeing this “stud” OG I keep reading about. So I’ll ask again, has anyone watched a game where this guy lives up to his scouting report? From what I’ve seen he is one of if not the most over rated players in this draft. I’m scared to death we are going to draft this guy.
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Going to be hard to shine against Clemson’s DL. He’s a scrappy player with more range than most at his position. His reps at SR Bowl with LJ Collier (probably most high motor DL at the SR Bowl) was must see tv!
 
TheRealJoker said:
Going to be hard to shine against Clemson’s DL. He’s a scrappy player with more range than most at his position. His reps at SR Bowl with LJ Collier (probably most high motor DL at the SR Bowl) was must see tv!
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Well Clemson’s DL Is indicative of what he’s going to be looking at every Sunday in the NFL. Again I’m not saying I’m right. I’m saying the film I’ve watched doesn’t match the scouting report and I’m asking has anyone seen a game that actually does?
 
mussop said:
Well Clemson’s DL Is indicative of what he’s going to be looking at every Sunday in the NFL. Again I’m not saying I’m right. I’m saying the film I’ve watched doesn’t match the scouting report and I’m asking has anyone seen a game that actually does?
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He’s a mid 2nd round guy. The Clemson DTs are both 1st round guys for a reason. I think this is a case of having too high expectations. He’ll take his lumps as a rookie. All OL do. But he has the tools to develop into an above average starting guard in the league while being good enough to start as a rookie. That’s really all you can ask of a guy in his range.
 
Perfect example:

My interior OL crush Elgton Jenkins. Watch his tape against Alabama (Quinnen Williams specifically) and you’ll come away saying, “I don’t get the hype”. Mid 2nd round guy vs the best player in the draft though.

To Jenkins credit he had 2 REALLY BAD plays against Williams but also had a couple good ones sprinkled in!
 
TheRealJoker said:
Perfect example:

My interior OL crush Elgton Jenkins. Watch his tape against Alabama (Quinnen Williams specifically) and you’ll come away saying, “I don’t get the hype”. Mid 2nd round guy vs the best player in the draft though.

To Jenkins credit he had 2 REALLY BAD plays against Williams but also had a couple good ones sprinkled in!
Click to expand...

I watched that game and alot of Williams.

If you passed on guys because Williams dominated them, then you should pass on all of the guys he went up against last season. I like Jenkins.
 
TheRealJoker said:
He’s a mid 2nd round guy. The Clemson DTs are both 1st round guys for a reason. I think this is a case of having too high expectations. He’ll take his lumps as a rookie. All OL do. But he has the tools to develop into an above average starting guard in the league while being good enough to start as a rookie. That’s really all you can ask of a guy in his range.
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From what I’ve seen he’s a late round pick. I keep reading things like he’s hands down the best OG in this draft and he’s a sure fire first rounder. I just haven’t seen it and was wondering if anyone else had seen a game that reflected that. Have you watched any of his games to come to these conclusions?
 
mussop said:
From what I’ve seen he’s a late round pick. I keep reading things like he’s hands down the best OG in this draft and he’s a sure fire first rounder. I just haven’t seen it and was wondering if anyone else had seen a game that reflected that. Have you watched any of his games to come to these conclusions?
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I watched him at the SR Bowl and the games you mentioned. How many guards do you have ranked ahead of him?
 
Cant see taking Howard and Scharping for their potential when you dont have any coaches that can help them improve. Back to back years with the worse offensive line or to tell you something. Yet we have the same guy coaching them.
 
Stub said:
Cant see taking Howard and Scharping for their potential when you dont have any coaches that can help them improve. Back to back years with the worse offensive line or to tell you something. Yet we have the same guy coaching them.
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Yep, I have no problems with the Howard/Scharping picks.

I have my doubts if Devlin is the guy to develop them.
 
I see Howard/Scharping as having the potential to become average starting linemen .... and we, (loyal message board members), and various others, complained so long and loudly about the complete neglect of our offensive line, for so many years, that they had to do something. Fortunately, another team, in our division had similar problems, in actually acquiring a franchise QB, and then ruining him with mediocre to poor offensive line talent. That offensive line is now ranked as the #1 line in the NFL .... and Texan fans get to have their noses rubbed in it twice each year .... last year - 3 times ! The road to the playoffs goes straight thru Indy ! Off hand, I can't remember if they hired a new offensive line coach, or even new offensive coordinator .... but it's obvious that they went out a drafted studs .... real talent across the board, and are poised to go to the SB soon. Here's the rub .... the harder you push on O'Brien, the more hard-headed he becomes. Howard/Sharping will be an improvement, (after a season or so), but they will never reach the level of a Dillard/McGary .... I see them as becoming Pro Bowlers. Sure, it would have cost us a CB prospect, .... but, if you finally decide to address the line, do it whole-heartedly .... and hire Munchak away from Denver or Mathews from Tennessee.
 
IDEXAN said:
You don't think Tytus has a higher ceiling than Davenport ?
Click to expand...

As we know all know Texans drafted both that should tell you something about measureables and how they fit in Devlins blocking/coaching schemes. I think they both have high ceilings, Davenport just started from a lower floor. In the end Texans may have their edge tackles in place, homegrown and next contract highly probable locked up, long as those ceilings are met.
 
Of course my favorite OL prospect who did get a up close look from Texans is Kaleb McGary. Like Howard he went higher than the projections, because Tackle is such a needed commodity. Will be following career with Falcons as he helps protect Matt Ryan and make another push for the Super Bowl. If they do he will have to step up his game and be more dominant on the right side and improve his pass protection. With work and his ability to overcome adversity, his character and mental toughness is what I like most about his game.

 
beerlover said:
Of course my favorite OL prospect who did get a up close look from Texans is Kaleb McGary. Like Howard he went higher than the projections, because Tackle is such a needed commodity. Will be following career with Falcons as he helps protect Matt Ryan and make another push for the Super Bowl. If they do he will have to step up his game and be more dominant on the right side and improve his pass protection. With work and his ability to overcome adversity, his character and mental toughness is what I like most about his game.

Click to expand...

Gotta respect Atlanta going back up and getting their tackle end of first round. Two first round OL same draft sends a clear message they want to get that offense back on the Super Bowl track.
 
justmy2cents said:
I see Howard/Scharping as having the potential to become average starting linemen .... and we, (loyal message board members), and various others, complained so long and loudly about the complete neglect of our offensive line, for so many years, that they had to do something. Fortunately, another team, in our division had similar problems, in actually acquiring a franchise QB, and then ruining him with mediocre to poor offensive line talent. That offensive line is now ranked as the #1 line in the NFL .... and Texan fans get to have their noses rubbed in it twice each year .... last year - 3 times ! The road to the playoffs goes straight thru Indy ! Off hand, I can't remember if they hired a new offensive line coach, or even new offensive coordinator .... but it's obvious that they went out a drafted studs .... real talent across the board, and are poised to go to the SB soon. Here's the rub .... the harder you push on O'Brien, the more hard-headed he becomes. Howard/Sharping will be an improvement, (after a season or so), but they will never reach the level of a Dillard/McGary .... I see them as becoming Pro Bowlers. Sure, it would have cost us a CB prospect, .... but, if you finally decide to address the line, do it whole-heartedly .... and hire Munchak away from Denver or Mathews from Tennessee.
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I believe Mathews sat at home the entire 2018 season. I seriously think OB and Devlin feel like the Texans OL is in good shape......and it's obvious that OB thinks Devlin is doing a bang-up job as the OL Coach.

I have no idea as to what kind of OL Coach Bruce Mathews would make but damn, wouldn't it be worth finding out since he's a former HOF offensive lineman who did exactly what OB wants from each of his OL......a standout All Pro at various positions along the OL......and in all reality, he couldn't be any worse than Devlin.
 
Just one more thing about Kaleb I was trying to remember name of the LSU OT that so impressed me both on and off the field, who reminded me of him. It’s Andrew Whitworth, oddly enough drafted in the 2nd rd. by the Bengals in 2006 with pick #55. Remember him handing out food to homeless and hungry post Katrina and nasty on the field demeanor. Has played in 199 games, 195 of those as a starter. Just finished 2nd year of 3 year deal with Rams. Made it four Pro Bowls, twice first team all pro, one more than Duane Brown who played and started in 158 games, drafted in 2008 1st rd. Pick #26 by the Texans
 
Whitworth and Winston came out together. I wanted them as bookends. At that time, I didn't realize what a stellar athlete Whitworth was. He has such great feet and body control. He moves so well, that he is able to constantly excel at his assignments .... without sacrificing or contorting his body into vulnerable positions. Consequently, he almost never get injured. So important ! I see that kind of body control in Jonah Williams, and those kind of feet in Dillard. I also see great body control in McGary. He is a huge man with high level intellect. One last time .... I believe that pursuing and acquiring Dillard and McGary would have been the most beneficial moves for the Texans .... any additional RBs, TEs, WRs. or DBs - icing on the cake !
 
justmy2cents said:
Whitworth and Winston came out together. I wanted them as bookends. At that time, I didn't realize what a stellar athlete Whitworth was. He has such great feet and body control. He moves so well, that he is able to constantly excel at his assignments .... without sacrificing or contorting his body into vulnerable positions. Consequently, he almost never get injured. So important ! I see that kind of body control in Jonah Williams, and those kind of feet in Dillard. I also see great body control in McGary. He is a huge man with high level intellect. One last time .... I believe that pursuing and acquiring Dillard and McGary would have been the most beneficial moves for the Texans .... any additional RBs, TEs, WRs. or DBs - icing on the cake !
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Totally agree and this would've been my plan then I would've started picking CB's if I had to give up a 3rd to get Dillard and the two 2's to get McGary I would've done it and had my bookend OT's for the next decade. If they wanted a CB then trade a 2020 pick to get your CB. But make sure Watson doesn't take a beating like he did last yr ever again.

They tried to do this with the Howard/Scharping picks. Who knows if they got it right, but I would've felt much better with Dillard/McGary.
 
justmy2cents said:
I see Howard/Scharping as having the potential to become average starting linemen .... and we, (loyal message board members), and various others, complained so long and loudly about the complete neglect of our offensive line, for so many years, that they had to do something. Fortunately, another team, in our division had similar problems, in actually acquiring a franchise QB, and then ruining him with mediocre to poor offensive line talent. That offensive line is now ranked as the #1 line in the NFL .... and Texan fans get to have their noses rubbed in it twice each year .... last year - 3 times ! The road to the playoffs goes straight thru Indy ! Off hand, I can't remember if they hired a new offensive line coach, or even new offensive coordinator .... but it's obvious that they went out a drafted studs .... real talent across the board, and are poised to go to the SB soon. Here's the rub .... the harder you push on O'Brien, the more hard-headed he becomes. Howard/Sharping will be an improvement, (after a season or so), but they will never reach the level of a Dillard/McGary .... I see them as becoming Pro Bowlers. Sure, it would have cost us a CB prospect, .... but, if you finally decide to address the line, do it whole-heartedly .... and hire Munchak away from Denver or Mathews from Tennessee.
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree with you more!!!!
 
justmy2cents said:
Howard/Sharping will be an improvement, (after a season or so), but they will never reach the level of a Dillard/McGary .... I see them as becoming Pro Bowlers. Sure, it would have cost us a CB prospect, .... but, if you finally decide to address the line, do it whole-heartedly .... and hire Munchak away from Denver or Mathews from Tennessee.
Click to expand...
Your comments bout drafting Howard over Dillard pretty much represents the consensus of opinion here, actually likely the near unanimous opinion
of favoring Dillard over Howard. Dunno really 'bout Sharping vs McGary, as those two are of secondary consideration.
Munchak left Pittsburg (he's a PA native), to be in Denver with family, especially grandchild so he's not coming to Houston to work for anybody at this stage of his life.
As for Matthews I beleive he's back in Houston enjoying retirement so dunno if he's even interested in coaching anymore ?
In the meantime looks like it's gonna be Devlin coaching Howard & Scharping - gotta have to live with it for awhile longer.
 
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