Kubiak Vs. Capers

[real]

Cowher estabished a winner percentage of 67% his 1st 4 years after previous coach Chuck Noll notched only 47% his last 4 years.

Just curious....Did you know those percentages, or did you look those up ?

 

[SESupergenius]

Just curious....Did you know those percentages, or did you look those up ?

Looked them up, go look yourself, it's all over the internet.

 

[SESupergenius]

Your post starts out by saying Capers should have been given another year, and then you proceed to give most of the reasons he got fired. In light of what you said and the team in a 'state of flux,' what kind of record do you think the Texans would have had in year 5 if Capers was still the HC?

In my mind Capers should have been given another year...if he had done the things to make him stay and Casserly had been fired right away in January. Capers should have brought in a good defensive coordinator, maybe from another 3-4 team's coaching staff and he should have brought in a West Coast style offensive coordinator to help out this aweful offense. He should have shaken up this team, instead he was too loyal. So since he didn't do all of that then I am ok to see a new start here.

If Capers was still here in year 5 we don't draft Mario Williams. More than likely we take D'Brickashaw as left tackle, and if we still did the same moves in the off season with Flanangan and E. Salaam and the others, you are looking at

D'Brick-Pitts-Flanagan-McKinney-(Salaam, Wiegert) as our offensive line.

I'd be ok with that.

The draft might have included CB Jimmy Williams to shore up our backfield a little, but that is looking in hindsight. If Capers did all the necessary things he needed to do to replace what was lost in Sharper, Glenn, and now Coleman, then I think he'd be sitting at 7-9 for this season, that is one better than I think Kubiak will do in his first year and all of the transitions the players and personnel had to go through.

 

[Runner]

In my mind Capers should have been given another year...if he had done the things to make him stay and Casserly had been fired right away in January. Capers should have brought in a good defensive coordinator, maybe from another 3-4 team's coaching staff and he should have brought in a West Coast style offensive coordinator to help out this aweful offense. He should have shaken up this team, instead he was too loyal.

I heard from a fairly reliable source that Capers was told at the end of the 2004 season to replace his coordinators or his head would be on the chopping block too. If that's true, he went into 2005 with his eyes wide open, and 2005 was his "another year".

I was told this during the 2004 off-season, so it isn't revisionist history. Unless someone thinks I'm making it up, of course.

 

[Scooter]

dom capers has had 1 winning season in 8 years of being a head coach. is there really need for any more discussion than that? if there is, how about every team got progressively WORSE during his tenure? kubiak has 3 superbowl rings as an assistant coach, and is a former player. that means that he knows how to play the game, and has been taught how to WIN games. shanahan has a career winning percentage of .607 as a head coach and dom is at .167 ... i think i'd rather have shanahan's waterboy than dom as a head coach. dom got DEMOTED this off season, kubiak got PROMOTED. i'm at a loss as to why this is being argued.

SES i'm at a complete disagreement regarding the offseason. if dom was here we would've drafted bush, and we would NOT have been nearly as active in free agency. why would you even assume that we would? i'm sure it's not by following dom's track record. putzier followed kubiak & flanagan followed sherman, scratch the biggest signings off the list right there. following dom's track record, we would've given up a 3nd rounder for moulds, thrown a ton of money at willie mcginest and that would be the extent of our free agency. we'd be running the same "read and react" 3-4 that has failed every season thus far, and we would not have adequate coaching nor personnel to solidify our offensive line (although we probably would've also overpaid for salaam since he's coming from jacksonville).

look at dom's history. then compare it to kubiak's. kubiak has yet to coach a single game and i firmly believe that he's done more for the texans in these past 4 months than capers did during his entire tenure.

 

[TexanFan881]

The voting so far tells it all...

 

[tsip]

In my mind Capers should have been given another year...if he had done the things to make him stay and Casserly had been fired right away in January. Capers should have brought in a good defensive coordinator, maybe from another 3-4 team's coaching staff and he should have brought in a West Coast style offensive coordinator to help out this aweful offense. He should have shaken up this team, instead he was too loyal. So since he didn't do all of that then I am ok to see a new start here.

If Capers was still here in year 5 we don't draft Mario Williams. More than likely we take D'Brickashaw as left tackle, and if we still did the same moves in the off season with Flanangan and E. Salaam and the others, you are looking at

D'Brick-Pitts-Flanagan-McKinney-(Salaam, Wiegert) as our offensive line.

I'd be ok with that.

The draft might have included CB Jimmy Williams to shore up our backfield a little, but that is looking in hindsight. If Capers did all the necessary things he needed to do to replace what was lost in Sharper, Glenn, and now Coleman, then I think he'd be sitting at 7-9 for this season, that is one better than I think Kubiak will do in his first year and all of the transitions the players and personnel had to go through.

...but the entire premise of the Capers 5 yr plan was to win in the 5th yr! Too, there would be no way Capers would make all those changes but--most important, even if he did--we'd never win with his coaching philosophy!! Who was it that was just posting about Capers blaming everything on 'execution.'

One of the knocks posted on the Bills board was that Capers was not considered for the Bills job because of the answer he gave in the interview when asked how he would coach the Bills--answer was 'same' as in Carolina and Houston!! Capers would not have changed his coaching style and the Texans would never had won with him as HC.

 

[SESupergenius]

SES i'm at a complete disagreement regarding the offseason. if dom was here we would've drafted bush, and we would NOT have been nearly as active in free agency. why would you even assume that we would? i'm sure it's not by following dom's track record. putzier followed kubiak & flanagan followed sherman, scratch the biggest signings off the list right there. following dom's track record, we would've given up a 3nd rounder for moulds, thrown a ton of money at willie mcginest and that would be the extent of our free agency. we'd be running the same "read and react" 3-4 that has failed every season thus far, and we would not have adequate coaching nor personnel to solidify our offensive line (although we probably would've also overpaid for salaam since he's coming from jacksonville).

Oh I'm sure a ton of people will disagree with me on Capers. I think that Dom actually would be active in free agency because Casserly was still here, and despite what some people think, Casserly does have an active roll in selecting players. With Bradford and Gaffney gone, I am sure we would have still gone after Moulds. With the O-line still suspect I;m sure Dom would have gone after a lineman too. But read my post again, I'll make it clear, Capers needed to get rid of Fangio and put in a better defensive coordinator to run the 3-4. Without that then yes, Capers should have been fired. As far as overpaying, well, Kubiak overpaid for Weaver so that right there tells us nothing about the coaches signing players......but one commonality in the both coaches is Casserly.

 

[tsip]

dom capers has had 1 winning season in 8 years of being a head coach. is there really need for any more discussion than that? if there is, how about every team got progressively WORSE during his tenure? kubiak has 3 superbowl rings as an assistant coach, and is a former player. that means that he knows how to play the game, and has been taught how to WIN games. shanahan has a career winning percentage of .607 as a head coach and dom is at .167 ... i think i'd rather have shanahan's waterboy than dom as a head coach. dom got DEMOTED this off season, kubiak got PROMOTED. i'm at a loss as to why this is being argued.

SES i'm at a complete disagreement regarding the offseason. if dom was here we would've drafted bush, and we would NOT have been nearly as active in free agency. why would you even assume that we would? i'm sure it's not by following dom's track record. putzier followed kubiak & flanagan followed sherman, scratch the biggest signings off the list right there. following dom's track record, we would've given up a 3nd rounder for moulds, thrown a ton of money at willie mcginest and that would be the extent of our free agency. we'd be running the same "read and react" 3-4 that has failed every season thus far, and we would not have adequate coaching nor personnel to solidify our offensive line (although we probably would've also overpaid for salaam since he's coming from jacksonville).

look at dom's history. then compare it to kubiak's. kubiak has yet to coach a single game and i firmly believe that he's done more for the texans in these past 4 months than capers did during his entire tenure.

...great post!!!...kinda scary--almost 'cult' like--the way some folks don't get it about Capers.

 

[TexanFan881]

Capers' record as HC:
48-80
.375 winning percentage

He had 1 fluke season where any of his teams went above .500.
He should never have been hired on to start with.

Think I'll go with Kubiak.

I like how instead of just saying he had 1 season over .500 he had 1 fluke season over .500

 

[tsip]

"With Bradford and Gaffney gone"

...another assumption that would not have happened if Capers had remained!! Heck, he wouldn't even sit them down to play someone else and you think he'd get rid of them??? No way.

 

[SESupergenius]

"With Bradford and Gaffney gone"

...another assumption that would not have happened if Capers had remained!! Heck, he wouldn't even sit them down to play someone else and you think he'd get rid of them??? No way.

Someone else? who's on roster would have replaced them? please, now you are reaching. You act like Capers & Casserly would have just sat on their hands this offseason.

 

[Bearfan Blue and Orange]

That is the mantra, but I would say that this is somewhat mediocre. Williams was a first rounder, so was AJ who was drafted by Capers. Winston was a third rounder. Davis was a fourth rounder, again, grabbed by Capers. The rest of these guys are highly questionable. It's not like they went out and grabbed a guy with the abilities of Muhsin Muhammad, Tony Gonzalez, Jonathan Ogden or Ray Lewis. After all, Cowart and Kalu may not even start, Weaver can't rush the QB effectively, Moulds is in his declining years and Flanagan is no spring chicken either, Cook can hardly be seen as any better than his predecessor, Putzier was not even necessary due to the need to keep the TE in to protect the QB until the situation gets straightened out, and Walter has a grand total of 30 catches in three years. Now, is that "by far the best off season" the Texans have had? If so, then the other offseasons haven't been much to write home about either. From what I see, these changes really weren't anything of much consequence and were simply transactions made so Kubiak could put his little stamp on his team and call it his own -- at least in some form or another since the core of the team still comes from the previous regime.

BOBO BOBO BOBO... This is by far an addition in the offseason that does not compare to any of the years of capers. But in defense of Capers he came to a team that was just created brand new. On the other hand, they were compensated with other draft picks that he should have been able to make great decisions if he was "qualified" as you have put it in previous posts. Now, I can believe that maybe his hands were tied by management for players he may have wanted that Kube probably got easier and faster as coming in as a new head coach.

I do not know about you, but when I have gone to interviews they look at more than if you know that position. They look at the intangibles as well as the accomplishments you have made. many coaches are brought up through the ranks as a result of their pedigree. You hear it all the time. All you can do is take the chance. It was not working thus far and capers had several years to make improvements.

The WR corp is soo much stronger, and defenitely MORE reliable after adding Moulds and Walter to join AJ and Mathis alone.

 

[Bearfan Blue and Orange]

In my mind Capers should have been given another year...if he had done the things to make him stay and Casserly had been fired right away in January. Capers should have brought in a good defensive coordinator, maybe from another 3-4 team's coaching staff and he should have brought in a West Coast style offensive coordinator to help out this aweful offense. He should have shaken up this team, instead he was too loyal. So since he didn't do all of that then I am ok to see a new start here.

If Capers was still here in year 5 we don't draft Mario Williams. More than likely we take D'Brickashaw as left tackle, and if we still did the same moves in the off season with Flanangan and E. Salaam and the others, you are looking at

D'Brick-Pitts-Flanagan-McKinney-(Salaam, Wiegert) as our offensive line.

I'd be ok with that.

The draft might have included CB Jimmy Williams to shore up our backfield a little, but that is looking in hindsight. If Capers did all the necessary things he needed to do to replace what was lost in Sharper, Glenn, and now Coleman, then I think he'd be sitting at 7-9 for this season, that is one better than I think Kubiak will do in his first year and all of the transitions the players and personnel had to go through.

Honestly I do not think he even gets 1/3 of the players from this offseason. the reason many of the players came here is because they could see a change in the schemes and methodology that has emptied the seats.

Second, if you brought him back for his 5th year. No coach is going to go somewhere for 1 year and end up getting fired at the end of it. That is just not smart.

 

[Scooter]

Someone else? who's on roster would have replaced them? please, now you are reaching. You act like Capers & Casserly would have just sat on their hands this offseason.

i think he's saying that you're assuming we would've let bradford & gaffney go in the first place. we probably would have kept atleast one of them, negating the desire to even consider moulds.

 

[Ibar_Harry]

i think he's saying that you're assuming we would've let bradford & gaffney go in the first place. we probably would have kept atleast one of them, negating the desire to even consider moulds.

We dumped our WR core for a reason. That will be apparent when the season starts.

 

[rafterticket]

I think he is unqualified for the position and that he is several steps back from the person who should still be there. To think that I "personally" don't like him is pretty ridiculous since I wouldn't know him if I walked into him on the street. As far as the "hype" goes -- what hype?

Wow, I'm trying to catch up with this thread, and I just realized this. So, Dom...I mean BOBO, go back to work and get your defense together in Miami. You don't have time to go trolling around these message boards - you have a career to save.

And STOP comparing yourself to Brown, Holmgren and Cowher. Your peer group is named Fontes, Armstrong and Shula (not the good one).

 

[Scooter]

We dumped our WR core for a reason. That will be apparent when the season starts.

i agree, but we only finally dumped them after kubiak got here. it's anyone's guess whether capers would've kept them or not.

 

[the wonger need food]

Capers has 6 votes????

Bobo must have 6 different logins....

 

[SESupergenius]

Honestly I do not think he even gets 1/3 of the players from this offseason. the reason many of the players came here is because they could see a change in the schemes and methodology that has emptied the seats.

Second, if you brought him back for his 5th year. No coach is going to go somewhere for 1 year and end up getting fired at the end of it. That is just not smart.

Yes I see your point and this is a good one, but realize that there are still several coaches right now looking for jobs. The intent isnt to be here just one year, thats why I would have like Capers to stay ONLY if major shakeups occured, but it was evident that that wasnt going to happen.

 

[tsip]

Yes I see your point and this is a good one, but realize that there are still several coaches right now looking for jobs. The intent isnt to be here just one year, thats why I would have like Capers to stay ONLY if major shakeups occured, but it was evident that that wasnt going to happen.

I still don't see your point. In his 8 years of coaching as a HC, Capers never changed his philosophies or rigid ways of doing things--Bills didn't want him because he was going to coach them the same way as he did the Panthers and Texans. The only way he would have been kept for a 5th year is if he represented a 'greater' chance to win than a 'newbie. After 4 years of losing and a foundation based from day one on a 5 yr plan to win, why in the world would you bring him back to give us another losing season???

We're starting over and the future looks brighter and brighter. I'm not saying we will win in Kubiaks first year, but a losing season under him would be 'far different' than under Capers. So, SE, why would you bring Capers back in a 'lame duck' season?...even to go 7-9, what would that accomplish?

Please give us some specifics!

 

[Brandon420tx]

I want to bring up something about last years sackings of our Carr. Stated earlier was that we shortened our playbook in order to protect David which backfired. I'll put it in simpler terms for dumb people like myself.

At some point in the season opposing teams KNEW that our offense was

A.) Going to run the ball

B.) Going to audible into a run,and never going to audible into a pass.

C.) Going to pass with a TE on the line and one of the RB's staying back for extra protection. Leaving only 3 options for Carr to throw to, so they shut down the 2 receivers and had a safety or Linebacker go 1 on 1 with whichever back ran out of our backfield. .... Then brought the house....

This brought about many many 3 and outs, which means our defense was ALWAYS on the field .... well our defense and our KR unit....

One of the brightspot plays for our offense last year was a long-ball from Carr to Mathis, which actually freed up a few plays for the first half and it looked like we would finally have a productive day on offense... boy, weren't our dreams crushed by RUN RUN Max Protect RUN Audible Run don't even try send the punt unit out on first down...

 

[mapleleaf]

We'll wait and see...who knows maybe Kubiak might end up being like Capers.....well let's just pray and hope that doesn't happen.

 

[rafterticket]

We'll wait and see...who knows maybe Kubiak might end up being like Capers.....well let's just pray and hope that doesn't happen.

Come on, buddy. You don't mean that. In the three months Gary's had the job, he's made more positive moves than the previous regime did in four seasons.

Be positive. This is really looking good.

 

[SESupergenius]

I still don't see your point. In his 8 years of coaching as a HC, Capers never changed his philosophies or rigid ways of doing things--Bills didn't want him because he was going to coach them the same way as he did the Panthers and Texans. The only way he would have been kept for a 5th year is if he represented a 'greater' chance to win than a 'newbie. After 4 years of losing and a foundation based from day one on a 5 yr plan to win, why in the world would you bring him back to give us another losing season???

We're starting over and the future looks brighter and brighter. I'm not saying we will win in Kubiaks first year, but a losing season under him would be 'far different' than under Capers. So, SE, why would you bring Capers back in a 'lame duck' season?...even to go 7-9, what would that accomplish?

Please give us some specifics!

I was actually quite happy that we went 7-9 the season before, it met my expectation for an expansion team. It was a good steady progress, you can't deny that. What did happen is that the offseason going into our 2005 was a complete fiasco, now who's fault is that is debatable, but I put it squarely on Casserly. Notice how our offseason was pretty good this year and Casserly's hands were restrained? I think that just one season as a set back should not get a coach fired, almost every coach goes through that. Capers has been in 2 very special parameters in being a coach; he's had to deal with 2 expansion teams, most coaches go into established teams, so the argument of his bad record should have an asterisk next to it because let's face it, expansion teams just don't do well no matter who is coaching. It takes time to build a team.

As far as a 'lame duck' season, in my mind every player, coach or GM is a lame duck in every season. The NFL is based on performance, and the most recent history of performance is what you are based on and the life span of players and coaches is pretty small compared to other occupations. George Siefert coached Super Bowl teams in San Franciso but couldn't get a winning season in Carolina after only 3 years, he wasn't guaranteed anything with his 5 year contract and Super Bowls to his name.

But my point was, was that Capers needed to change some things on this team and wasn't willing to do that, that is a fatal flaw of his. If he had made those changes; a west coast offense, new defensive coordiantor and management got rid of Casserly, addressed the offensive line, got a solid #2 reciever and had a good draft then I would have been ok with him staying. If you look at it, that's pretty much what we did in the offseason this year anyways.

 

[Revolution]

A.) His "pedigree" has been spotty. Some success with Elway but spotty achievement after Elway left the building. B.) Capers was a fine head coach and to deny his accomplishments in his first three years is revisionist, disingenuous and unfair. C.) Seeing that he has absolutely no record as a head coach anywhere, I question your "knowledge of the man" in this capacity and your declaration of better results. D.) Seeing that most of the good players on his team are from the Capers era, I have to wonder why you say he has a better team than Dom ever had.

So the Carolina Panthers should have never hired Capers. The Texans should have never hired Capers because he should have never been head coach of the Carolina Panthers. How's that for logic?

John Fox, Bill Cowher and Marvin Lewis should have never been hired either. Big time mistakes by all three organizations!

 

[mancunian]

The people that voted for Dom are lying to themselves.

Go back 12 months are there was still support here for Capers. We'd gone 7 - 9 and were tipped as outsiders for the play offs.
Now I think there will be more positives in Kubiaks first year- and I've predicted 8 - 8 at least twice.

 

[Revolution]

So the Carolina Panthers should have never hired Capers. The Texans should have never hired Capers because he should have never been head coach of the Carolina Panthers. How's that for logic?

John Fox, Bill Cowher and Marvin Lewis should have never been hired either. Big time mistakes by all three organizations!

Funny how Bobo has no argument against this...

 

[bayoudreamn]

Funny how Bobo has no argument against this...

shhhhhh......