Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Coaches that freeze their own kicker don't recieve much consideration in COY!!
J/K Dutch!
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Kubiak 2011 coach of year?
- Thread starter badboy
- Start date
Coaches that freeze their own kicker don't recieve much consideration in COY!!
J/K Dutch!
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Agreed. Before Harbaugh showed up, San Fran was a train wreck, although he did inherit some talent.
Like you, I think Harbaugh deserves it if he can finish. I also think McCarthy deserves it if they go 16-0 after a SuperBowl
If Buffalo can get into the play-offs even as a wild card I think Gailey is more deserving.
If Fox & Tebow win that division, I think they would be more deserving.
Marvin Lewis with Dalton & Green
There's a lot of great coaching going on. Kubiak deserves to be in the conversation, but since this is year 6 (I know this is supposed to be in a bubble) I think that cancels out the injury thing.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Kubiak has been brilliant this year. Did I just say that? Of course, much of that brilliance can be explained by :wadepalm: however, looking at the injury situation at key positions and key players and yet they keep rolling along... and he has in general done much better at every area I saw him as weak in before this year.
I dare say the light bulb seems to have finally been lit. At this point, I want Kubes here next year, and Kubes and Phillips are a dynamic duo that will be a periennial contender for years imo. We have finally hit the mother lode, and I definetely think he is a COTY candidate even if they split the last two.
Bring on the kool-aid!
I dare say the light bulb seems to have finally been lit. At this point, I want Kubes here next year, and Kubes and Phillips are a dynamic duo that will be a periennial contender for years imo. We have finally hit the mother lode, and I definetely think he is a COTY candidate even if they split the last two.
Bring on the kool-aid!
I'm thinking, the way he's been playing Schaub over his last 3 or 4 games, he's got to be clairvoyant. Like he knew we'd be getting down to our third string (practice squad) QB.
MEGA SWATT
All Pro
MSR
I was positive in my July post on page 1 btw. You called it like a mo-fo, bro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If he does not get it, it's just more Houston hate/lack of respect.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yes, you did. I liked Gary from beginning but his stubborness on holding onto his coaches especially on Defense was losing me fast. I was disgusted & ready to turn off team. The hiring of Wade Phillips was the turnaround. Few head coaches have to be the OC while the DC does nothing. The negative is I don't think Gary would have gone to McNair and said "I want Wade Phillips." I believe that talk went the other way. We could be building a dynasty.
SF49erFaithful
Crabtree FTW
The Texans are LEGIT this year but I haven't even heard of Kubiak as even in the discussion until I glanced over this thread. It is awesome that they have played through such significant injuries, and I do think Kubiak deserves credit for helping them through that, but to think of him as the favorite is just being a homer. Bottom line, he has a very poor track record with defensive head coaches and lucked out when Wade, probably the best DC in the NFL, hit the market in the same state. So I'd say he is too reliant on Wade to be considered COY. In all like likelihood, if Wade leaves for another HC job/retires, the defense is probably back in the dumps if history is any indicator. Plus, this is Kube's 6th year as a HC and only his first year to the playoffs...no? That certainly doesn't bode well for his case.
Even if McCarthy runs the table, he won't get it either. Nobody even knows of that guy. He is probably an above average head coach and not much more. They do a great job drafting talent and have a good system, but that team was average without Rodgers. Definitely good fortune that he inherited him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but McCarthy wasn't even sold on Rodgers when he was at GB. He kept Favre, drafted Brohm, and I believe there were even rumors circulating that Rodgers was on the block. Don't quote me on that though. Bottom line, that team is awesome but McCarthy doesn't deserve too much of the credit. AR foremost and then the GM. Kudos to McCarthy for developing the talent, though.
Fox won't get it. No way. The Broncos are 7-5 in a pretty bad division and haven't beat one good team. None that I can think of, at least. Aren't their last 3 wins that are being hyped up so much against the likes of Minne, SD, and Miami? Again, pathetic, especially considering they needed a miracle each time. Don't forget about his stubborn ways earlier in the season either, refusing to unseat Orton. His comments to the media about Tebow sucking don't help him, either.
I heard Chan Gailey mentioned somewhere....
Seriously? I don't think much an explanation is needed there. It is like his 3rd year as HC and Buffalo hardly looks improved. After starting off hot, they've lost like 5-6 in a row and stand at 5-7 overall. If anything, that is a Dishonorable Coach of the Year candidate. Aaron Maybin's resurgance only makes him look worse, on top of all that. Marvin Lewis? No way. He has been the HC for an eternity and hasn't done ****. One of the worst HCs in the NFL. This is like his 3rd winning season in the past 10. Bengals aren't dominant by any means. Good, but not special. They are 7-5, I think.
Harbaugh has it locked up. I think there is about a 5% chance anyone even comes close, let alone gets it. If it's not him, it will probably be McCarthy. Depending on how the rest of the season and playoffs go, Hue Jackson, John Fox, and Kubiak could be considered.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
This is Coach of the Year. Not coach of the last 6 years. What Kubiak or the Texans did from 2006 through 2010 doesn't mean a lick of **** when it comes to discussion about who is the 2011 Coach of the Year.
Grams
Veteran
I read the title of this and thought - no way!!!
But after reading some of the posts and thinking about it - if we go 13-3 with a 3rd string 5th round rookie QB, losing Mario, AJ, Foster and others, learning a new defense - I think he should.
I thought he should have been fired after last year.
If that's the case then whether or not the Niners sucked for the last umpteen years should be irrelevant.
Both coaches have turned around 6-10 teams to be division leaders. And since the NFC West doesn't have any other team with even a .500 record, let alone a winning record (like the Titans do) then I submit the Texans have accomplished more than the Niners.
This is irrelevant anyway. McCarthy is going to be CotY.
...and Rodgers will be MVP.
SF49erFaithful
Crabtree FTW
Um, except it does. It is very relative and puts things into context.
I'll use an example to demonstrate my point. Let's say a coach of an NBA franchise hasn't had a winning season before. His team ranks near the bottom of the league in wins ever year since he took over. It is his 8th year with the club, and after using the no.1 overall pick on Jon Doe, his team makes the playoffs with Jon Doe lighting the league up and winning MVP in his rookie year. Are you telling me you'd think the coach in this scenario would be deserving of Coach of the Year? All things held constant, it looks like he is not a great coach, and the team is winning because of Jon Doe.
If the Texans have not been to the playoffs since Kubiak took over, which was 5 years ago now, and then this year they get who is considered the best D coordinator in the business, how much success can you attribute to Kubiak? It sure looks like everything is held constant here, with Wade being the independent variable. Sure, Joseph was a big signing, and Watt looks good, but they alone couldn't have caused the complete turn-around in the defense, especially in such short time.
Keep in mind the example I used to illustrate my point was quite extreme. I don't feel the Texans' case is to that degree.....it was just to exaggerate my argument.
Sounds a little contradictory to me. First, no one knows the coach of the Super Bowl Champs who happen to be undefeated after week 12. Really?
Even if McCarthy runs the table, he won't get it either. Nobody even knows of that guy. He is probably an above average head coach and not much more.
...but that team was average without Rodgers. Definitely good fortune that he inherited him. ...Kudos to McCarthy for developing the talent, though.
Fox won't get it. No way. The Broncos are 7-5 in a pretty bad division and haven't beat one good team. None that I can think of, at least. Aren't their last 3 wins that are being hyped up so much against the likes of Minne, SD, and Miami? Again, pathetic, especially considering they needed a miracle each time.
Second, lucky that he inherited Rogers? Then you go on & drag the Chargers through the mud? That's Phillip Rivers with as talented a group of receivers & defense as what they have in GB. GB is knocking down all comers, NO, NYG, Chicago, Atlanta (those are all the NFC Contenders minus SF).
That's coaching. San Diego can't win in the AFC West & GB is taking names in the NFC North & you don't see the value of good coaching?
Sounds like homers come in all shapes, sizes, & logos.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The Texans are LEGIT this year but I haven't even heard of Kubiak as even in the discussion until I glanced over this thread.
Then you haven't been looking. There is an ESPN article discussing Kubiak in this context up right now. I don't think he will win it but he is in the discussion.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
To add on to the McCarthy argument, one thing that is important is that most teams that win the Super Bowl tend to have a 'hangover' the next year. I think a lot of that has to do with motivation of the players and a even some great coaches don't overcome that. The Packers are playing lights out this year despite just winning a Super Bowl. I think that's pretty amazing too, especially if they go 16-0. No way could you give it to anyone else at that point, 16-0 is so uncommon and difficult that it alone makes the case for best coach of the year.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Coaches that freeze their own kicker don't recieve much consideration in COY!!
J/K Dutch!
Eh... I said that back in July. It's just a combination of hype around the Cowboys, visibility, and media attention that it was a good setup for Garret to prove himself this year. Doubt it will happen now even if they win out. I'd say McCarthy or Harbaugh get it this year.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Even if McCarthy runs the table, he won't get it either. Nobody even knows of that guy. He is probably an above average head coach and not much more. They do a great job drafting talent and have a good system, but that team was average without Rodgers. Definitely good fortune that he inherited him.
In 2006, McCarthy took over a Packers team that had been 4-12 the year before. In his second year, he took them to 13-3 and the NFC Championship game - which they lost to the eventual Super Bowl Champion Giants. This occurred before Aaron Rodgers ever started a game for the Pack.
In terms of nobody knowing of him, if this were true, it would have been difficult to finish second in the 2007 Coach of the year voting - yet he did that. In what could possibly end up being a foreshadowing of this years award, the coach that beat him to win in 2007 was Bill Belichick - who's team had just completed the first (and as of right now only) 16-0 regular season the NFL has seen.
Maybe Harbaugh will get it, maybe someone other than Harbaugh or McCarthy will get it (there is still four weeks to go after all), but to dismiss McCarthy in the manner that you have is ludicrous and uninformed.
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bckey
All Pro
Take away Wade Phillips and then look at where the Texans would be this year. Kubiak is still the same ol Kubiak of years past. Absolutely no way the Texans beat Atlanta last week without Phillips defense. I said it last year when Bob stepped in and hired Wade and kept Kubiak. The only way the Texans will make the playoffs and/or superbowl is if Wade Phillips can build an elite defense. An elite defense can make up for offensive mistakes and weaknesses. You can punt the ball when maybe you would have gone for it on 4th because your defense couldn't be trusted to stop the opposing team's offense. A long field goal try is more of an option because the defense can be counted on to stop the opposing offense. QB sacks, 3rd and 4th down stops, hurried qbs, repeatedly hit qbs, interceptions, batted passes, fumbles and hard hits on receivers win games.
Kubiak is an average coach that has had the benefit of an overly patient owner. 10 years
(6 for Kubiak) to get to the playoffs is way too long. Yes it is sweet but there were some bad decisions that set the Texans back a few years here and there. And I really think if the dc decision would have been left to Kubiak we wouldn't be talking about playoffs this year. Bob knew it too and stepped in. I didn't like the way he went about it but I did like the hire.
I really don't see how Kubiak can even be discussed as coach of the year. My vote goes to Harbaugh. He has done something in San Fran that Kubiak could never do. Turn a team completely around in 1 year on both sides of the ball and clinch a division title by week 12. Phenomenal job. If you take off the koolaid glasses there really is no comparison.
Kubiak is an average coach that has had the benefit of an overly patient owner. 10 years
(6 for Kubiak) to get to the playoffs is way too long. Yes it is sweet but there were some bad decisions that set the Texans back a few years here and there. And I really think if the dc decision would have been left to Kubiak we wouldn't be talking about playoffs this year. Bob knew it too and stepped in. I didn't like the way he went about it but I did like the hire.
I really don't see how Kubiak can even be discussed as coach of the year. My vote goes to Harbaugh. He has done something in San Fran that Kubiak could never do. Turn a team completely around in 1 year on both sides of the ball and clinch a division title by week 12. Phenomenal job. If you take off the koolaid glasses there really is no comparison.
So, they fired their GM & got a new guy at the recommendation of Jim Harbaugh?
They turned over close to 50% of the roster?
They went from being the 30th ranked offense & the 30th ranked defense to top 10 on both counts?
Because that's where the Texans were.
SF49erFaithful
Crabtree FTW
And it only took about 6 years and the best DC in the NFL to do so.
bckey
All Pro
Wow just wow. You just can't ever take those homer glasses off for even a second. 6 years compared to 1 and a better record with a division clinched. No matter what the differences were when each coach was hired that is awesome. Heck I don't even care for Harbaugh but at least I can see that he has done a fantastic job there. If Kubiak had taken over the 49ers I really don't think they would be 12 and 1 with a division title clinched already. What about you TK?
SF49erFaithful
Crabtree FTW
You wanna go down that road? Please, be my guest. Because by your logic, Jim Caldwell is a great HC. He lead the Colts to a 13-0 record before resting his starters and an appearance to the Super Bowl. That must be because the Colts needed him in addition to Peyton Manning to get that far, right? Oh wait, that's right, their 0-12 now without him. As an AFC South fan, I thought you'd pick up on that one. The reason the Chargers aren't winning is because Phillip Rivers isn't NEAR the QB Manning/Rogers are, AND Norv Turner is an awful HC.
But to be fair, I didn't give McCarthy nearly enough credit, I concede that much. After giving myself a refresher course, and by some of the observations pointed out on the previous page, he had achieved some things that slipped my memory. Still, he had the luxury of inheriting TWO of the greatest QBs of all time. But I can't ignore the possibility that AR's gifted passing is a product of his tutelage, and that Favre did have an incredible year under him in 07. And GB did go 4-12 the year before, but for a long stretch ending just the year before that, were perennial playoffs contenders. The point being it wasn't a bad team. Although to say the team is improved now with better depth is an understatement. A 12-0 start following a SB win is impressive, period. Still, McCarthy won't get the award, I don't think. I think that is AR's team...obviously not even close to the degree of PM and the Colts though. Plus, 16-0 isn't as special as it used to be, since BB accomplished that milestone so recently. But if he does go the full 19-0 I wouldn't be surprised to see him get it, since that hasn't happened before.
So a Packer's fan would be a homer by your criteria if he stated that Green Bay was the best team in the league? Because casual fans and NFL "experts" alike are in almost complete agreement that Harbaugh is a virtual lock, just as they believe GB to be the team to beat.
That's not the point.
I'm fine with Harbaugh getting coach of the year & I don't think Kubiak deserves to be in the conversation, read my posts in this thread, I said exactly that.
It's that comment, "He's done something Kubiak could never have done." We don't know that.
Turning a team completely around in one year? That's not what happened in San Francisco. That was the 13th ranked defense, not the 30th like Kubiak took over.
That's a young team, with young talent, not at all like what Kubiak took over.
It's not that I think Kubiak is a great coach or anything like that. But that one statement of yours, the part I quoted, is way off base imo.
If Kubiak took over that team with the schedule they played.... I think it's possible. This team has played as hard as they could have I think, since Kubiak has been here. They've never quit on him as far as I can tell.
But Kubiak didn't take over that team, so we don't know.
spurstexanstros
Texans Rising
I think Kubiak deserves it because of all the adversity this team has faced this year. Marion (gone) Foster out 2 to 3 weeks AJ misssed 6 games (so far), not only did he lose Mat Shcaub for the year, but his back up as well and now they are rollin in to stretch run with 5th round rookie....If that doesnt scream coach of the year I dont know what does.
i agree with this...but i think harbayugh may deserve it a little more given his circumstances...
Maybe what Harbaugh has done in San Fran? Nothing from the job Kubes has done this year, but if the season ended today Harbaugh would be a stone cold lock. A lot of people predicted the Texans would make the playoffs even before Peyton went down. No one expected the 49ers to be 10-2 with the fewest points allowed in the NFL (by a wide margin).
drs23
Veteran
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
It's been a great ride so far but there are still 4 games to go so.....
let's not start mucking each other's wrist quite yet. (TBS version)
let's not start mucking each other's wrist quite yet. (TBS version)
76Texans posted a link to an article on NFL.com, I didn't think much about the article itself, but two comments posted afterwards got me thinking.
I'm changing my vote. Gary Kubiak should be Coach-of-the-Year.
I'm changing my vote. Gary Kubiak should be Coach-of-the-Year.
Harbaugh lucked in to what Singletary had started building the two years before. When Singletary sat Vernon Davis down after seeing him slack off in a game, that set the tone for the Niners you see today. And as for building a team, the current Niner team you see today has been in the works since they picked Alex Smith and Frank Gore in 2005 and Vernon Davis in 2006 and Patrick Willis in 2007 (0r 2008?)... anyway, that team has been stacking up 1st round picks since before Kubiak got to Houston.
And if you just want to compare improvement from last year to this, the I submit Kubiak has done a better job. Both teams were 6-10 last year and are leading their divisions this year. So that's a wash. Wait... no it isn't. There's no team in the NFC West that has better than a 5-7 record. At least we go against the Titans who are still in the playoff hunt.
I give the Niners one, maybe two, quality wins this year. The first one was when they beat the Lions when both teams were 5-0. The second one was when the defense shut down the Giants' attempt at a comeback a couple of weeks ago. And since the Lions have only two wins since their fast start and are now 7-5 and the schizo Giants are 6-6, those wins aren't all that impressive when you look closer.
I said it before and I'll say it again:
The reigning champs always get everyone's best shot. That's always the case. Every team wants to see how they do against the best. You all know this. And it is doubly the case when the reigning champs are undefeated.
If the Pack finishes 16-0, McCarthy gets CotY. Harbaugh and Fox and Kubiak and maybe Marvin Lewis will be in the discussion but McCarthy will win.
Those quotes were from the comment section. Not the actual article.
And Kubiak lucked into Wade Phillips.
Why do we have to knockdown the accomplishments of other coaches? Harbaugh took over a franchise that hadn't won in 9 years. Without the benefit of minicamps and OTAs to install his system. And turned the Niners into big winners. Something many said was impossible. It didn't take him 6 years. Jim Harbaugh has had one of the more special coaching seasons in recent memory.
After 5-3/4 years, I'm satisfied. And yes, Kubiak deserves more consideration due to the excessive injuries to key players. In a normal season, Kubiak would probably win. This isn't a normal season.
McNair fired Bush and went for an ungrade. That's not luck. That was a conscious decision. By most accounts it wasn't Kubiak's decision it was McNair. No CotY points for Kubiak on that hire.
Why do we overblow what should have been the obvious outcome if you did a little homework and did a talent comparison up & down that division? Who in the NFC West has the talent, top to bottom, that the Niners have amassed since 2005?
Now, having said that, the one thing I will give Harbaugh credit for is the transformaton of Alex Smith. He has turned Smith from "bust" into a top ten QB. Smith had been under defensive minded coaches his whole career and we know how that works out don't we? Now that Alex Smith finally got with a coach that understands QBs, he is doing very well. I would give Harbaugh CotY consideration for that accomplishment alone. Because that's all coaching.
But no CotY points for running a talent-laden team thru a weak schedule and an even weaker division.
I'm tellin' ya guys. Coach of the Year is McCarthy's to lose.
Arizona doesn't have talent (Fitzgerald, Wilson, Dockett)? I don't see the big talent disparity there with the Niners. The Niners are winning because they do the little things. Take care of the ball. Create turnovers. Excel on special teams. That's coaching. Harbaugh has turned the mentality of this franchise around. In 5 months time.
BTW, the Texans currently play in the league's weakest division ( I did my homework). The AFC South has a worse collective record than both the NFC or AFC South.
I would appreciate that.
Not to start a new thread, but we all must realize that a division title means a contract extension for Kubiak. We're probably looking at him signed through the 2015 season. I hope McNair can get Wade signed for that length of time. Based on merit, Phillips deserves another shot as a head coach in the NFL. Based on age and image, I don't think Wade will ever be a head coach again. Not fair to Phillips, but it is good for this franchise.
Arizona would have been the Niners only real competition if Kolb had clicked with his receivers sooner... And they don't have nearly the caliber of defense that the Niners do. Three teams in our division have top ten defenses. Outside of the Niners - who are #1 - none of the NFCW teams have a defense in the top half of the league. I'll grant you, record-wise, the AFCS can be viewed as the worse division. We can thank the Oh-fer Colts for that. Let me ask you this: do you actually believe that the Niners have had to face division foes with the caliber of defense that we have? I don't.
And I still say CotY is McCarthy's to lose so this whole Harbaugh vs. Kubiak this is an academic exercise anyway.
While I agree, I thought someone posted a Wade quote where he said, he wasn't really interested in another head coaching gig...?
I just hope, given his age, he's grooming a successor. I mean another extension would mean he's coaching in his late sixties - nearly seventy! I would think he'd want to hang 'em up in the not-to-distant future.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
It won't bother me if Kubes doesn't get it this year. Kubes will get it when we are repeat Superbowl Champions!
Why? It's not like he has to do press conferences or interviews. All he has to do is coach. Dick LeBeau is 10 years older than Wade, and still going strong.
What does that mean? The Niners have and will face opponents that have a higher winning % than the Texans have and will face. I'm not knocking what the Texans have done. They've beaten the teams in front of them. So why knock the Niners for doing the same thing?
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Age may not matter. I think Dick LaBeau is in his mid to late sixties and still going strong. Correct me if I am wrong. Also, how old was Parcells in Miami? And what is the name and age of Payton Manning's x-offensive coordinator that is now at the Jets? Marty Schottenheimer was up there in San Diego too wasn't he? I think 68-70 tends to be the retirement age of successful coordinators because of longevity. I would look up those guys and ages but I am on my "Pinto-like" Blackberry.
Those guys have been in a stressful job, but their bodies haven't been broken down like us in various jobs or been exposed to chemicals in the plants so they can work longer.
I'm not seeing that. McNair locked Kubiak through this season & next (right?) I doubt we'll see a contract extension until next season, depending on how the team plays.
With Wade, I think you may as well sign the extension now, because we've got the beginning of a dynasty & I doubt we'll drop off next year, even though our division will be tougher & we'll play tougher Divisions (NFC North & AFC East I think)
At least if I were McNair, I would wait unless we get to the AFC Championship game.
Mcnair won't let Kubiak coach on the last year of a contract. Kubiak getting an extension is a lock.
I think it depends on what message McNair wants to put out.
That we're being tough & going to make Kubiak prove that it isn't a fluke.
or that he was right all along & Kubiak is no fluke.
I'm going to withdraw my previous assumption.
I think you're right & Kubiak will be extended before next season starts.
TexansFanatic
Extremist
Yep.
That's a move that has McNair written all over it.
No way he lets Kubiak coach without job security.
houstonspartan
All Pro
Kubiak deserves to keep his job.
He does not deserve a freaking EXTENSION. No way.
This guy has been given more extensions and chances than anyone. Let him earn his next contract. Let this contract play out and then see.
Wade's going to be getting head coaching job offers up the wazoo during the off season. If he takes one of them, Kubiak is in deep doo do.
Congrats to Kubiak on this season, but, let's be clear here, people: 2011 belongs to Wade Phillips.
He does not deserve a freaking EXTENSION. No way.
This guy has been given more extensions and chances than anyone. Let him earn his next contract. Let this contract play out and then see.
Wade's going to be getting head coaching job offers up the wazoo during the off season. If he takes one of them, Kubiak is in deep doo do.
Congrats to Kubiak on this season, but, let's be clear here, people: 2011 belongs to Wade Phillips.