Maddict5
Hall of Fame
ridiculous
is rex ryan a bad HC so since he a D guy and schotty runs that offence?
how about SB winning HC sean payton who just like kubiak runs the O and lets gregg williams have the D?
so many other examples too
Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!
keep kubiak
- Thread starter utahmark
- Start date
ridiculous
is rex ryan a bad HC so since he a D guy and schotty runs that offence?
how about SB winning HC sean payton who just like kubiak runs the O and lets gregg williams have the D?
so many other examples too
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Some of you do know that Kubiak is basically a GM too? He and Smith make decisions and from what I read Kubes like to impose his will. This guy made the decision to cut Dunta. He made the decision to draft a rookie that wasn't even the best cover corner out there and to insert him no matter what. He made the decision to build the team like this. The secondary is on him. He made the decison not to go after a top, aggressive D Coordinator. They coach these players up. 5 years, same time management mistakes, same way of losing. Same excuses.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Seems like every coach has a LOT of say in the drafting and every one of them has some part of the team that they don't care enough about, which becomes an Achilles heal.
My answer: replace the HC every year! We can just start using the colored soaps as soon as the first game is over, even if we win.
My answer: replace the HC every year! We can just start using the colored soaps as soon as the first game is over, even if we win.
wagonhed
Team Gruden
Kubes' intense favoritism should be enough to make anyone start asking questions about his competence. Look at our record with Colorado State, the Broncos, and former Kubiak teammates. That says a lot of things about Kubiak. For example, it says that he doesn't know how to use scouts or evaluate things himself, he just goes with what he is familiar with. It also says he doesn't have an eye out for the big picture. And he doesn't have a whatever it takes to win mentality.
Grams
Veteran
I have lost any confidence in Kubiak that I had.
Not having the team prepared for the Colts with 2 weeks to get ready for a broke, beat up team did me in. Ant the mentality of it is just another game for the Cowboys . . . .
I am still a fan and will watch each game and yell and scream at them, I find it difficult to believe that they will win 1 more game, much less 6.
I don't display any color soap, but we definately need a better HC and coaching staff next year, preferably Cowher, along with Parcels. The Bill and Bill show - works for me.
Not having the team prepared for the Colts with 2 weeks to get ready for a broke, beat up team did me in. Ant the mentality of it is just another game for the Cowboys . . . .
I am still a fan and will watch each game and yell and scream at them, I find it difficult to believe that they will win 1 more game, much less 6.
I don't display any color soap, but we definately need a better HC and coaching staff next year, preferably Cowher, along with Parcels. The Bill and Bill show - works for me.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Is Rex Ryan clueless about the offense? He has a quality offensive coordinator that has done a great job running that offense. He picked up Santonio Holmes, perhaps the most clutch receiver in the league, in the offseason. Shonn Green? LT? Mark Sanchez? Braylon Edwards? Your argument is terrible.
Just because Rex Ryan is a D guy, doesn't mean he is clueless about offensive football.
Gary Kubiak has proven that he is clueless about defensive football, and if he somehow puts it together for the defense it will be by sheer luck. That much is obvious.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
Of course you were at the meeting when Ryan proposed to bring all those players in and Schottenheimer said "whatever you want, boss". Right?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
It's likely a team decision, which reflects on the coaching staff as a whole. That's usually how real teams are run. Even if it was Schotty's decision alone, this is Rex Ryan's offensive coordinator. He recognized that he was a damn good offensive coordinator and kept him around, unlike Gary who brought in all his boys regardless of coaching ability.
Who have Gary Kubiak's defensive coordinator's brought in? What have Gary Kubiak's defensive coordinators done?
Further, where were these bold moves when Schotty was the offensive coordinator and Rex Ryan wasn't there? I think it's clear that Rex has alot to do with the personnel changes that have been made on the Jets.
Some of you just simply don't get it, honestly.
So because someone does not neccessarily agree with you that means that they don't "get it" ?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
It's not about agreeing with me.
Saying this, "Of course you were at the meeting when Ryan proposed to bring all those players in and Schottenheimer said "whatever you want, boss". Right?" shows a lack of understanding of the NFL in my opinion. It also doesn't make sense when used against my argument. He isn't considering that regardless of who's decision it was, that is Rex Ryan's staff and their decisions as a whole, or by themselves, reflect onto him.
It's pretty obvious stuff IMO. It has less to do with agreeing with somebody, and more to do with simply understanding.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I was originally.
This is the post I was originally referring to:
I think I illustrated above why this thinking is flawed.
What Lucky is trying to say is that if Kubiak doesn't have enough knowledge about defensive football to atleast identify and hire a competent defensive coordinator, he is not a good HC. Atleast, I think that's what Lucky is trying to say. Sorry if I am wrong Lucky.
Maddict5's use of Sean Payton and Gregg Williams is practically exactly the same as the Rex Ryan example.
Fair enough. I was just picking on the one statement. While I don't neccessarily disagree with you, It irks me when someone states that someone of a differing opinion is blind to the truth, or stupid or whatever.
Because none of us really know, all we have are opinions and no ones opinions are better than someone else's.
Not trying to point this at you, just in general. It goes on way to much on this board.
Because none of us really know, all we have are opinions and no ones opinions are better than someone else's.
Not trying to point this at you, just in general. It goes on way to much on this board.
Because Kubiak hasn't made the Texans relevant in 5 seasons, he must be the next Bill Belichick. Or Tom Landry. Or whatever absurd comparison the Sunshiners come up with.
It's funny that they never compare Kubiak to David Shula. Or Bruce Coslet. Or Norv Turner. Or any other offensive coordinator who failed as a head coach. So many other examples, too. Just not that many that have had 5 seasons without a playoff appearance (Belichick took the Brownies to the playoffs in his 4th season, btw).
Keep dreaming of Landrys and Belichicks, Sunshiners. In reality, we're stuck with a Coslet.
That's certainly a part of it. But Kubiak is there when the defense is installed. Through the OTCs, mini camps, and training camp. And he can't see that what's coached won't work? He watches film of the horrendous defensive performances, and has no input or advice on how to correct these mistakes that occur, game after game?
I've said this for 3 seasons now, and I guess I have to say it again. Gary Kubiak is not the Houston Texans head coach of the offense. He's the Houston Texans head coach. He's not made of teflon. Whatever happens on the field is a direct reflection of his ability to coach a NFL team. And after 5 years, Gary Kubiak has proven to be not good enough. It's as simple as that.
Bigbots_02
Waterboy
OK... So I'v been thinking about everything as of late. Our wins, our loses and the way we've played in those games. I ABSOLUTELY want a new def cord. but I don't want a new head coach that's going to change how our offense plays and operates. Here are the facts:
Kubiak was brought to Houston because our offense was close, if not the WORST in the league at the time. As far as offense goes now... the sky's the limit... we make bonehead mistakes but that can be overcome with time. We couldn't score in the readzone or run the ball at all... we can now. I watch them play and I tell you, we could be down by 21 at the half but I KNOW that if that switch is flipped we could easily overcome. I liked the 3 run plays at the end of the jets game... I however would always stressed the importance of scoring.
We are capable of putting up points but its almost like we play to barely win. If they have the lead they dont want to put up more points, just run the clock and hope the defense stops them so the offense can run the clock out some more... If anything, we should be trying our BEST to destroy the other team on offense... Not because we want to make them look bad but simply to compensate for our HORRIBLE def. Until we get a real plan on def and or people start stepping up, thats a reasonable and acheiveable approach... just my opinion.
Tell me what you guys think
Kubiak was brought to Houston because our offense was close, if not the WORST in the league at the time. As far as offense goes now... the sky's the limit... we make bonehead mistakes but that can be overcome with time. We couldn't score in the readzone or run the ball at all... we can now. I watch them play and I tell you, we could be down by 21 at the half but I KNOW that if that switch is flipped we could easily overcome. I liked the 3 run plays at the end of the jets game... I however would always stressed the importance of scoring.
We are capable of putting up points but its almost like we play to barely win. If they have the lead they dont want to put up more points, just run the clock and hope the defense stops them so the offense can run the clock out some more... If anything, we should be trying our BEST to destroy the other team on offense... Not because we want to make them look bad but simply to compensate for our HORRIBLE def. Until we get a real plan on def and or people start stepping up, thats a reasonable and acheiveable approach... just my opinion.
Tell me what you guys think
HardKnockTexan
Rookie
I'd be okay with keeping Kubiak but his power needs to be extremely limited. Let him be in charge of the offense but have no role in saying who is in charge of the D and ST. My biggest problem is with Smith. He has failed in grand fashion. Our last 2 drafts have been absolute jokes. Last year, he doesn't address our most glaring need (corner). When that position is identified as being really, really bad, he doesn't go after an experienced vet like Al Harris. Instead he picks up a floundering CB that was released. I blame Smith and his lack of vision and knowledge for this mess more than Kubiak.
What you're saying is, keep Kubiak. Which is why this was merged into the "keep kubiak" thread.
Two years ago, "Fire Kubiak" was the fringe position. Last year it was closer to 50/50. Now, "Keep Kubiak" is the minority viewpoint among Texans fans. The only thing that remains the same is the Texans watching the playoffs from their sofa.
Bigbots_02
Waterboy
That could and more then likely will be very much the case. That said... went slaton was fumbling a over the place, and chris brown was fumbling on the goaline and getting stuffed at the 1, and kris brown was missing game winning kicks... that wasnt kubiaks fault directly but is still on his shoulders and responsibilty. If those thinks didnt happen, I beleive we would already be in the playoffs and wouldnt be having thins conversation.
Brad Childress record 39-35 with 4 yrs head coach, made the playoffs twice. FIRED
Wade Phillips record 34-22 4.5 yrs head coach, made the playoffs twice. FIRED
Gary Kubiak record 35-39 4.5 yrs head coach, hasn't ever made the playoffs. ???
you do the math.
Also found this quote on Wade Phillips firing first time ever for a Cowboys HC firing DURING the season, article that you can directly relate to the Texans woe's.
="http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/sports/pro/football/teams&id=7771887"
Keep Kubiak?? Only if McNairs LOYALTY takes precedence over benching an underachieving Head Coach.
Wade Phillips record 34-22 4.5 yrs head coach, made the playoffs twice. FIRED
Gary Kubiak record 35-39 4.5 yrs head coach, hasn't ever made the playoffs. ???
you do the math.
Also found this quote on Wade Phillips firing first time ever for a Cowboys HC firing DURING the season, article that you can directly relate to the Texans woe's.
="http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/sports/pro/football/teams&id=7771887"
Keep Kubiak?? Only if McNairs LOYALTY takes precedence over benching an underachieving Head Coach.
Kubiak can't play. So he can never be "directly" responsible. Decisions made by Kubiak, however, impacted the results you described. Kubiak didn't play Arian Foster while Slaton was "fumbling a(ll) over the place" and Chris Brown was failing. Kubiak never brought in competition for Kris Brown when he struggled. His decision making, both in game and in season, is molasses slow. Eventually, the buck has to stop somewhere. Is it Glover Quin, Jason Allen, Frank Bush who gets the blame? Or the man who hired them?
Bigbots_02
Waterboy
OK... I didnt really look at it like that. I still feel how I feel but you give a good arguement. Wit that said... So you fire Kubiak... Then what? You bring in some proven blood that will fix the def... does the offense stay the same? does it improve too? The truth is everyone wants change for the better but the grass isnt promised to be greener on the other side... maybe for 1 but not the overall picture. Plus, not as easy to fire kubiak right now... specially with no promise of football coming soon. You fire kubiak and sign someone else to a deal but there no football to play... what then?
I want a guy who is good at evaluating talent. Who will fied a team of tough guys that teams dont go for it on fourth and 1. Run a QB sneak with the ball on their own 36 with 5/6 mins left in the 4th qtr. (Jacksonville game, and Garrard gained 4 yds on the sneak. Which is pathetic. IMHO)
BTW why ys there not an asst coach on the team that's deemed as being worthy of the interim HC job? Why because Kubes didn't want to hire a guy who could take over for him if the Texans team went through its usual 4 game losing streak. Either that or Uncle BoB told Kubes he wasn't willing to pony up the $$$$ to hire the best asst. coaches.
JB, This is what we as fans dont know. But its got to be one or the other.
BTW why ys there not an asst coach on the team that's deemed as being worthy of the interim HC job? Why because Kubes didn't want to hire a guy who could take over for him if the Texans team went through its usual 4 game losing streak. Either that or Uncle BoB told Kubes he wasn't willing to pony up the $$$$ to hire the best asst. coaches.
JB, This is what we as fans dont know. But its got to be one or the other.
One of the central arguments for keeping Kubiak is the threat of a lockout/strike in the upcoming season. So it's not about keeping Kubiak based on his merits. Just the fear that the Texans chances at winning in 2011 would be poor if major changes are made.
Well, guess what? The Texans chances of winning in 2011 would be poor if changes aren't made. How can I make this claim? How about basing it on the previous results over the course of 5 seasons. I would say that the Texans are in the dreaded "damned if they do/damned if they don't" position if a lockout/strike occurs in 2011. So then, what's best for 2012? And beyond? The same old going nowhere fast, with Kubiak? Or a chance at something better with someone else?
I choose change. Because that's all that gives me hope.
The grass appears to be dead right now. This weeks win not withstanding.
So yes the grass would be greener on the other side. IMHO
Yes. I agree to an extent. We as fans don't know if it is McNair saying no or Kubiak. We don't know that maybe Smith is unable to successful at enticing players and coaches to come here. Perhaps interviewing people for the position is not his strong suit. Do we really know how much control Kubiak has on who is brought in? I;m sure he has the say on the coaches, but even if he tells Smith he wants to bring in a certain FA, Smith still has to get it done.
Changes have to be made for this franchise to move forward. How extensive those changes should be? I don't know, but I think if Kubiak is fired then everyone below Cal McNair should also be fired. Speaking of the FO and coaching staff here.
Bigbots_02
Waterboy
Good stuff... I guess is you cant have a certainty, you've always got hope. I couldnt think of anything better to place my bet on then hope... I guess Im just still hoping they get it together
All this hopey change talk is reminding me of Obamas election.
Unlike with Obama, I agree....... only way I have hope for our next season is if changes are made.
If Kubiak returns, I will support this team, I just wont be expecting anything.
I know there are a lot of people here, who know more about football than I do. But some of these arguments don't make sense.
#1. If you don't make the play-offs, you're a bad team? The Patriots went 12-4 one year, & didn't make the play-offs. That's not the norm, I understand that, but good teams miss out on the play-offs all the time. Last year's Steelers, won the Super Bowl the year before, they are basically the same team they are now.... but they missed the play-offs in 2009. Same coach, same team.
#2. I look at those records, the Phillips with the Cowboys, Childress with the Vikings, & to me it looks like Kubiak has done a heck of a coaching job, considering the teams those guys had, and the guys we had.
#3. The biggest difference between the Cowboys/Vikings & the Texans, is that their play has got progressively worse, ours has got better. The last 4 games have actually been the better from a football standpoint than the first 4, even though we won 3 of the first 4, and lost all of the last 4, we have been playing better lately.
& I'm not making crap up, or saying things to be controversial, or to get a rise out of certain posters. That's my honest opinion.
If you don't agree... fine. If you think ill of me... fine. If you think I'm off my rocker... whatever.
Wasn't Foster's first carry a fumble against the SeaHawks?
wagonhed
Team Gruden
Nothing worries me more than our terrible defense because it is making fans ambivalent towards the firing of Kubiak. That is the worst possible thing that can happen to this team. If our defense leads to the firing of merely all defensive staff and a removal of blame for Kubiak, we are truly screwed.
Foster fumbled in the Rams game, on his 3rd touch after a 13-yard catch and run. Arian sat the rest of the game. If your point is that Kubiak treats UDFAs differently than high picks that make mistakes (like Okoye & Kareem Jackson), then point taken.
We'll never know, but I believe had Slaton not fumbled so much early, had Moats not fumbled his chances away & had Chris Brown not fumbled his career away, Foster would have seen more action earlier. That early fumble wouldn't have been so costly to him (& us).
The Foster fumble wasn't costly. The Texans won that Ram game (despite playing like crap). Foster went on to gain 216 yards and score 3 TDs in the next 2 Texans games. Both victories.
actually TK, my post was MORE about their prospective records, than playoffs. Most on here know that making a playoff as an NFC team is easier than an AFC team. But a win/loss record is very indicative of a coach's ability to COACH.
Childress and Phillips didn't exactly take over the Colts team, either. They both had to build and use what talent was available to them to win games, IMHO.
win-loss records are pretty stand alone barometer's of a Head Coach's ability in this league. Both those guys were fired. With winning records. Kubiak doesn't even have that. Yet he is still here and entrenched in his position. HMMMM
Childress and Phillips didn't exactly take over the Colts team, either. They both had to build and use what talent was available to them to win games, IMHO.
win-loss records are pretty stand alone barometer's of a Head Coach's ability in this league. Both those guys were fired. With winning records. Kubiak doesn't even have that. Yet he is still here and entrenched in his position. HMMMM
pokaholic777
Practice Squad
I think Kubiak is a good HC, and I love his offense...The only reason we are so bad is the defense but he hired Bush so thats on him. What I would do is fire Frank Bush and hire Wade Phillips or someone with some experience. But I wouldnt mind if Kubiak was fired and they brought in Cowher, Gruden, Childress etc.
Who's fault is it when Kubes helped in picking the GM/Players/Asst.Coaches?
Kubes has his fingerprints all over this team.
If your goal is to have a solid playoff caliber team yr after yr Kubes isn't your guy IMHO.
Your right TK some good teams dont make the playoffs some yrs. Some yrs bad teams make the playoffs. Ex. NFC West, if the Texans make the playoffs (unlikely) they will be a bad team that made the playoffs and most likely with this defense one and done. IMHO
Kubes has his fingerprints all over this team.
If your goal is to have a solid playoff caliber team yr after yr Kubes isn't your guy IMHO.
Your right TK some good teams dont make the playoffs some yrs. Some yrs bad teams make the playoffs. Ex. NFC West, if the Texans make the playoffs (unlikely) they will be a bad team that made the playoffs and most likely with this defense one and done. IMHO
Do you really think his goal is just to get to .500?
I'm perfectly fine with keeping Kubiak if McNair insists on a DC that will challenge Kubes for the HC job. Bring in Marv Lewis when he gets fired or Wade Phillips, who can take over 5 games in if Kubes fails again. Just like Kubes likes to have everyone challenge every position on the field, have coaches behind HIM that can challenge him for his position.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
LOL, you can't be serious. If McNair knew then what he knows now he'd be a pretty magical guy. Kubiak would be a moot point because he wouldn't have hired him in the first place. He'd a saw how terrible Capers/Casserly would be and any other candidate because "he knew then what he knows now" and would have selected a HC and GM that were great and we'd be perennial super bowl champions.
If what you mean is that McNair isn't happy we're a ".500 ballclub" then yes, you're absolutely correct.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah Foster's debut sure was impressive. Averaged a whopping 2.6 ypc. I mean it was obvious he was going to blow up from that especially with Moats averaging a meager 4.3 ypc in the same game. But we can all look back now and with hindsight pile on that it was stupid not to start him earlier. OK. And yes pass blocking is important in this offense. Arian is getting it now. He threw a critical and excellent block on a TD play last week.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
Also, as has been mentioned several times, Foster wasn't doing well initially but at some point late in the season "the light switched on" and he began to impress in practices. The flat-earthers want to pretend Foster was drafted by someone else and is successful in spite of, rather than due to, anything the coaches have done.
To sum up their argument: "Stupidak had the NFL's leading rusher just sitting on the practice squad all last season when he was trotting out Chris Brown every game. More PROOF Stupidak can't evaluate talent!!!!!!!"
Let's get it right. None of us were there on the practice field last year to see what Foster was/wasn't accomplishing. Gary Kubiak was. You may prefer to believe that Gary put Foster on the field at the exact appropriate moment. I question how someone as good as Foster could look so poorly to Kubiak, he would continue to trot out scrubs like Moats & Brown. I don't see how there could be any actual evidence to proof each other wrong. But, I'm not changing my mind.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
Yup. Good thing Cowher mentioned drafting Foster otherwise Smith and Kubiak probably would never have known, eh? Especially since they're both well known for using high draft picks on RBs, just like Denver. Thank God for small miracles!
If you want to give Kubiak & Smith credit for signing Foster as an UDFA, great. I have no problem with that. Overall, I don't think they've done a bad job bringing in talent (though the best year, 2006, was without Smith).
The problem I have is with the development of the talent. The problem I have is with how the talent is deployed on the field. The problem I have is with the results. I don't think everything Kubiak & Smith have touched is garbage. Just that after 5 years, the smell is bad.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
Now that's a very reasoned statement and one I can agree with. I'll say this, I don't like Cowher or Gruden as I believe they're success was largely complementary to their skills. I'm not married to Kubiak. If one of those guys comes in then I'll support him whole-heartedly because I support the team.
My main thing is I look at teams that change coaches every 2-3 years and the same names come up always, Detroit, Buffalo, Washington, St Louis, KC, SF - thus I do believe stability has its merits. That said, 5 years of doign things "his way" is enough and something needs to change that's a certainty
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I never claimed to know what happened on the practice field.
Never said Kubiak put Foster on at the exact right moment. Just saying putting Foster on the field against a D that gave up 4.1 ypc on the season and having him run for 2.6 ypc (when Moats got 4.3 ypc) wasn't an inspiration for obviously this guy should be out there. Then he fumbled on his 3rd touch of the next game. I like Arian but I think looking at today's results and saying Kubiak is an id!ot for not starting him earlier is absurd.
As for proof, look above again to Foster's first game where scrub Moats left him in the dust. And again we all know pass blocking was why Brown was in the game. This year with a running game that decision would make less sense as we are less pass dependent. Last year pass blocking was more important than running since the running was so poor.
And hey, I love Arian but he really looks like he worked hard in the off-season to increase his shiftiness and/or understand the system. Last year in the last two games he was good at giving what the OL gave him and using his size. This year he is on a different level making small movements in space, hesitation, etc. I mean c'mon, some folks after last season were saying let's give Foster more time. Most were saying we need another RB. Nobody was saying Foster will lead the league and be beating Chris Johnson.
Other than being hired the same year, there are huge differences between Kubiak & those coaches.
Those coaches stepped into head coaching situations & had to get a group of guys ready to play football.
Kubiak stepped into a franchise that didn't know the first thing about contract negotiations, he appointed our GM, & they rebuilt this franchise from the ground up..... not just the team.
If McNair continues with Kubiak I'm sure he'll be taking that into consideration.
I personally don't care. I want the Texans to win, if that means we need to split ways with Kubiak, then that's what I want done. I only hope McNair brings someone in, who knows what he's talking about, not only to decide that Kubiak needs to go.... but also on who replaces him.
10 years with no chance at a Super Bowl is bad..... 15 would be worse... 20 even more so.... etc, etc, etc...
At the very least, I hope he spends several days on this message board reading all the possible solutions.