Joe Paterno/Penn State

Discussion in 'College Football & the NFL Draft' started by JustBonee, Oct 26, 2004.

  1. JustBonee

    JustBonee Hall of Fame

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    Just how low can they go? Once a powerhouse; now a joke ... it is just plain sad and pathetic at Penn State these days. Joe Paterno has long since lost his effectiveness as a coach. No one has the heart to push him out. And I guess he is too old and senile to read and hear what they are saying about him. I wonder how long this will go on before someone steps up and begins to salvage the school's football program.

    http://www.cumberlink.com/PSUfootball/04/game07/1024_how_low.php
     
  2. TheOgre

    TheOgre Hall of Fame

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    That is true Sassy but he earned the schools patience. He won National Championships in 4 separate decades. I think he should be able to coach there as long as he wants. There aren't many coaches I would say that about.

    However, I would also have people in the background encouraging him to move on. There is no way he should be fired. He has earned the right to go out on his own terms.
     
  3. JustBonee

    JustBonee Hall of Fame

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    Sadly, that seems to be the way it is playing out, to the detriment of the school's best interests.
     
  4. TheOgre

    TheOgre Hall of Fame

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    Detrimental in the short-run for sure, but the school likely would never have made it anywhere without Joe Pa though. I hope he retires soon but I don't want to see a Tom Landry type exit again (and I HATE the Cowboys).
     
  5. Huge

    Huge Hall of Fame

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    vs Akron - 98,866 in attendance
    vs Central Florida - 101,715 in attendance
    vs Purdue - 108,183 in attendance
    vs Iowa - 108,062 in attendance

    That's an average of 104,206 for their first 4 home games this season.

    Joe Pa ain't going anywhere until he decides. School could care less about what the record says. Until their attendance (and pockets) start to decline, he'll be on the sidelines.
     
  6. Mistril48

    Mistril48 All Pro

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    I believe Joe also has a spectacular record of charitable giving to the University. I think he gave a million $ to the library, although I don't have a link. Showing that loyalty is a two-way street isn't necessarily against the Universities best interests.

    I don't know much about the situation at Penn State, but perhaps somethings, including how we treat seniors, are more important that football.
     
  7. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

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  8. WolverineFan

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    They should have burned that program to the ground when they had the chance. As usual, the NCAA got it wrong.
     
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  9. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    Death Penalty?
     
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  10. bah007

    bah007 Hall of Fame

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    If I'm being truly honest, I don't think they should even be allowed to have a football program.

    I don't think the SMU infractions are anything even remotely close to this and they got absolutely hammered.

    At the very least Paterno and Sandusky should have every single achievement removed from their names and deleted from history. Take away all Penn St's wins and championships that occurred after the first known rape.
     


  11. bah007

    bah007 Hall of Fame

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    double post
     
  12. gwallaia

    gwallaia Moderator Staff Member

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    Penn State is too big to be given harsh sanctions by the NCAA. SMU on the other hand, not so much. SMU was the perfect school to be punished so severely by the NCAA. SMU would be the example of what would happen if you broke the rules.
     
  13. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    Maybe I'm just not seeing what that accomplishes. I'm all for throwing the book at Sandusky, Paterno, and whoever else knew what was going on of course. Give them all the boot, charge them criminally, erase them from the program's history, etc. But taking away a place for kids to earn scholarships and compete, kids who obviously did nothing wrong, and for the student body who did nothing wrong there either just seems too far. Even for something as terrible as this, especially when this is such an isolated/unique incident. Seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
     
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  14. The1ApplePie

    The1ApplePie Hall of Fame

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    The Trojans got whacked pretty bad, the U as well in recent years, even Ohio St. All for far lesser crimes

    The NCAA cares only when it might effect the outcome of games or lead to point shaving. Ole Miss will probably get the hammer after the money stuff came out during the draft. Compare with all the horrible **** that Baylor is doing right now, where you don't hear a whiff of NCAA investigation. Or FSU and the whole rape cover-up for Winston.

    I think it depends if the whole school is complicit, or just everyone below the athletic director. If the university knew about it, then **** 'em. It also depends if the NCAA wants to make an example out of a school as a warning.
     
  15. Mollywhopper

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    I agree with throwing out everyone who knew. Great. But keep the institution and those that are innocent/currently there and rebuild.

    I don't get erasing the program from the map entirely. Because make an example for what? Don't rape kids and hide the rapists? People already know that. I doubt punishment is going through the minds of anyone who would do so. They're a little beyond the reason of cause and effect of even a punishment as harsh as the death penalty. You're just telling a bunch of innocent people to take a hike, and for what ultimately?

    Maybe I'm missing something here.
     
  16. The1ApplePie

    The1ApplePie Hall of Fame

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    If you want it to be a deterrent, then you crush the offending university so no other colleges makes the same mistake in hiring scum bags. Penn State got rich and gained much prestige because of JoPa, plenty of universities would do a lot of shady **** to get that. Probably not child rape, but covering up the rape of adults is common (see Baylor and FSU). I don't really agree with it, but I see the logic of hammering PSU.
     
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  17. Mollywhopper

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    Maybe I'm not seeing where 'the university' is some entity that needs punishment or that will be an example. What is left after the complicit people are punished, booted, erased, etc of 'the university' that should face crushing? Anyone looking to get rich in hiring scumbags in the future are simply people too who should stand to learn from the punishment these people should face. Is there no differentiation between the offending people and the university?
     
  18. bah007

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    Any kid that could get a scholarship at Penn St would have numerous other options at their disposal. They would still get a chance to play somewhere. You're not taking anything away from anybody there.

    And I do see the student body as complicit. Maybe not the current students but definitely the alumni and administration. They deserve punishment. Penn St is a unique case. I can't think of any occurrence similar to this happening within an athletic program. Baylor is trending that way and if Briles is not held accountable then that school should suffer the same fate. The people at Baylor should be asking questions, not trying to hide answers. And if they don't make an effort soon then I would throw the book at them too. There is plenty of football to go around for everyone, and if you abuse the privilege at the expense of ruining other people's lives then you deserve to be held accountable. And that goes beyond just the actual football team itself.

    Penn St's students and administrators worshipped Paterno as a god for decades. Their fan base was a cult, and anyone who has spent time around Penn St people immediately knows what I'm taking about. Paterno was allowed more power and influence than any coach in history. He had more power than his bosses. He had more power than the president of the university. Hell, he had more power at Penn St than the governor of the state.

    And how did that happen? Everyone affiliated with the university let his influence and power grow unchecked over decades. As long as he continued to bring dollars and wins to the university they couldn't care less what went on in his program. Plus, if anything did happen, he didn't even have to report it to anyone, because nobody could do anything about it that he didn't want done anyway.

    That is the definition of a lack of institutional control. And since it happened in the football program it is under the jurisdiction of the NCAA.

    Take away their football program. If they lose money or students because of that I don't care. They are the ones that allowed Paterno to have the type of power that he eventually abused.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
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  19. bah007

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    Or how about this? Let them keep their football program. But kick them out of the BIG and don't let them join any other conference. They can still schedule whoever they want but they cannot collect any conference money or be eligible for any postseason play for 35 years, since that is how long they allowed their head coach to hide child rape so that their football team could be successful.
     
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  20. steelbtexan

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    This may be the worst case of lack of instutional control in NCAA history, but the death penalty was not on the table. Haves (Pennis St. vs Have Nots Poor SMU.) Double standard much?

    I mean little boys were getting raped and Joe Pa let it happen.
     

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