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Jake Matthews now #1

badboy

Hall of Fame
Let me relate these to Madden Grades and the draft.

If you've got Clowney at a 96, Matthews as a 94 and some other prospect (Say Anthony Barr) at 93, but you have either Bridgewater or Manziel even close to those dudes in your grades, and you need a QB, you have to take one of those two QB's. I don't have to explain to you how important QB's are in this game, and I'm sure you understand how difficult in can be to get a QB who can be a game breaker.

Maybe in your evaluations of whatever you don't think Teddy or Johnny can be those guys and thats fine then go with whomever. But if your honest evaluations put either of the QB's close to the guys who you think will be the best players from the draft you almost have to take the QB. It's really that simple.
Gonna disagree which is what makes the boards fun. Using your examples, if TB or JFF rated 90% and top 5 yet Boyd is rated even at 85 (I have him at about 90) and he can be selected in third (currently rated top of 5th) I go with Boyd. I have watched all these QBs now and he is right there with all of them and can be had at least two rounds lower. His 6'.06" is only risk. He is more solid than several including TB and JFF.

If Mettenberger healthy and that will not be known for a while, he is only QB I'd take over Boyd and he should be a second at best.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Yes very familiar. He showed promise in 2010 his first full year starting, and then regressed a lot in 2011. His numbers ticked back up in 2012 but he still didn't look to be taking big strides and then this year he really took a plummet before getting release and picked up by the Vikings. They gave him a decent chunk of change and made it obvious they planned to start him, and then he bombed big time in the Monday night game against the Gaints, couldn't hit the broadside of the barn. He is not a good QB, anyone that watches him knows that. Mike Glennon came in as a rookie and looked way better than him in the same Bucs offense.
So,,,,,No!
 

TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
No doubt about it.

But where he went to school and who his daddy is are two main reasons why he is so highly rated around here, both of which have nothing to do with his own ability.
Not for me. I couldn't give a **** less about his school or who his father is seeing as how I don't live in Texas and wasn't an Oilers fan.

I just liked the idea of getting the best OL, whoever it may be, because I'm sick of OL issues.

Doesn't look like it's gonna happen anyway though, if he's slipping.
 

TexansFTW

Veteran
Gonna disagree which is what makes the boards fun. Using your examples, if TB or JFF rated 90% and top 5 yet Boyd is rated even at 85 (I have him at about 90) and he can be selected in third (currently rated top of 5th) I go with Boyd. I have watched all these QBs now and he is right there with all of them and can be had at least two rounds lower. His 6'.06" is only risk. He is more solid than several including TB and JFF.

If Mettenberger healthy and that will not be known for a while, he is only QB I'd take over Boyd and he should be a second at best.
You're the only one that has Boyd at 90. I know this is imaginary, but where did you pull 85?

I stole this from another thread

Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline
Packers scout not alone in feeling Tajh Boyd/Clemson undraftable. Another league insider told me they would not use a draft pick on the QB.
The drop off is not the way you depict it. This is my opinion, but at the same time, who am I right? Take this for what you will.

Here are my imaginary Madden grades. (BTW, this is absolutely subject to change)

1. TB - 92
2. Bortles - 88
3. JFF - 86 (with potential for 93, WILDCARD!)
4. Derek Carr - 76
5. Zach Met - 69
6. Tajh Boyd - 66
7. Jimmy G - 63
8. AJ McCarron - 60
9. Aaron Murray - 56
10. Brett Smith/David Fales - 50

90s don't go in round 3. They go in round 1. 60's go in round 3. No scouts pass up on 90 QBs to draft a special teamer/3rd round LB in the 4th just because they have a QB. Teams will gladly hoard several 90 QBs.

Most TT threads are not about what they're about, but something different. :kitten:
Boom!

Speaking of imaginary...If we consider any tackle in this draft to build these imaginary trenches in hopes of becoming the Cleveland Browns, it better not be Matthews and better be Robinson. After the combine is over I'm sure Big Ro is gonna be top 5 and Matthews and his "supposed" T-Rex arms will be clinging to top 15 hope.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
You're the only one that has Boyd at 90. I know this is imaginary, but where did you pull 85?

I stole this from another thread

Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline


The drop off is not the way you depict it. This is my opinion, but at the same time, who am I right? Take this for what you will.

Here are my imaginary Madden grades. (BTW, this is absolutely subject to change)

1. TB - 92
2. Bortles - 88
3. JFF - 86 (with potential for 93, WILDCARD!)
4. Derek Carr - 76
5. Zach Met - 69
6. Tajh Boyd - 66
7. Jimmy G - 63
8. AJ McCarron - 60
9. Aaron Murray - 56
10. Brett Smith/David Fales - 50

90s don't go in round 3. They go in round 1. 60's go in round 3. No scouts pass up on 90 QBs to draft a special teamer/3rd round LB in the 4th just because they have a QB. Teams will gladly hoard several 90 QBs.



Boom!

Speaking of imaginary...If we consider any tackle in this draft to build these imaginary trenches in hopes of becoming the Cleveland Browns, it better not be Matthews and better be Robinson. After the combine is over I'm sure Big Ro is gonna be top 5 and Matthews and his "supposed" T-Rex arms will be clinging to top 15 hope.
TBH, my system is based on a 100 percentile in that I consider each of several factors as do others. I do have TB rated as best QB but imo based on observation as well as what others say, if Boyd was same height and he is not far off, he would have slight edge imo. I just threw out 85 as if he had that rating I would take him at third over TB in first. I agree '90' players are not in third round but I don't rate him as a third round guy. My mocks are now based on where player is rated by others such as CBS draftscout and Walter. My final mock is usually based on where I think a player will be selected. Just the way I do things.
 

kiwitexansfan

Hall of Fame
Gonna disagree which is what makes the boards fun. Using your examples, if TB or JFF rated 90% and top 5 yet Boyd is rated even at 85 (I have him at about 90) and he can be selected in third (currently rated top of 5th) I go with Boyd. I have watched all these QBs now and he is right there with all of them and can be had at least two rounds lower. His 6'.06" is only risk. He is more solid than several including TB and JFF.

If Mettenberger healthy and that will not be known for a while, he is only QB I'd take over Boyd and he should be a second at best.
What do you see in Boyd that makes you so keen on him?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame

kiwitexansfan

Hall of Fame

kiwitexansfan

Hall of Fame
I understand but you can say that about all of them this year. He has all he needs but size ( a true 6 .06 feet tall and 223 lbs). If height does not eliminate Manziel it should not Boyd.
I think my doubts have been about accuracy as much as anything, maybe that is height related..... we'll see I guess.

If we don't go with QB at 1:1 I think Boyd or Mettenberger will be my fallbacks at the moment.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What do you see in Boyd that makes you so keen on him?
I like his accuracy, I love his ball placement. I also get the feeling he's most apt to stand in the pocket & deliver a pass knowing he's going to get hit & get up to play the next down.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Earlier in the season , I preferred Matthews .... In general I still do.

But .... Circumstances dictate course of action.

The circumstances here are simple - We don't have a quarterback. If you don't have a franchise QB , you go get one. Teddy , should he declare is probably your best bet to become that franchise QB , at least in this draft.

I don't want one of the scrap heap QB's that will be FA's this offseason , they have all proven they aren't "Franchise Quarterbacks." They are Schaub or worse .... I've had enough of that.

I guess you do have the option of drafting Matthews and letting Case act like an NFL QB for another season then drafting Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota in the 2015 draft .... but I'm not so sure I can stomach another season like this one.
I understand where you are going here, and I wouldn't mind waiting a year or so for that franchise QB opportunity. I think a lot of teams waste a lot of years drafting a QB out of need when they aren't really drafting a true franchise QB, and then their team's big run gets delayed several years as they are looking for a franchise QB again. The Cleveland Browns and the Jags are perfect examples of teams that continually make this mistake. If O'Brien doesn't feel like any of these QB's are going to for surely be franchise QB's then I'd rather him get a franchise Olineman if he feels that Mathews is that guy. I just don't want the pick wasted on any position. Lets just make sure that we're getting a solid player that can contribute hopefully at a Pro Bowl level for many years.

Now the problem with waiting until next season with the idea of getting guys like Mariota or Winston is the fact that tons of teams are going to be wanting those guys next year too. What are the odds that the Texans will be at a #1 draft spot again next year? I highly doubt we will even be in the top 5. If so, that would mean we had a terrible season next year. I don't think that will happen and we will probably be picking somewhere around 15 or so. Just a guess as of now. So, how does that put us in a position next year to get that franchise guy? It puts us at an even lower probability to find that guy most likely.

Having the #1 pick this season is great, but it isn't an easy choice at all this season to me. I think you can approach this from several different routes or strategies, and many of them can go wrong. None of these QB's have that Andrew Luck type of "can't miss" feel to them. They all have certain question marks that are pretty glaring along with the upside as well. I don't envy O'Brien's task that is in front of him at all with this draft any way.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Trading down and getting picks for next two drafts looks enticing.
I would love to to see a perfect storm of trades go down. Move down to four for both Cleveland's first and and next years first. Then trade back up to two swapping two for four and give them our second round pick and our first next year.

We now have improved next years first round pick. Surely we will be better than Cleveland. And we turned our second round this year into a first.


I know I'm a homer. :nolisten:
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
tweets read bottom(oldest)-to-top
[IMGwidthsize=300]http://thegrownupya.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/coffee-talk.jpg[/IMG]

TackleTwitterTalk, with Linda Richman

Josh Norris ‏@JoshNorris 2h
@MockingTheDraft @SI_DougFarrar I don't think its a system thing. Think NFL is going to obsess over Robinson, might be No 2 player for some

Dan Kadar ‏@MockingTheDraft 2h
@SI_DougFarrar @JoshNorris They're both good enough to transcend system, to me. Better than last year's top OTs.

SI_DougFarrar ‏@SI_DougFarrar 2h
@MockingTheDraft @JoshNorris I've also seen Robinson lose on pad level and just get absolutely trucked.

SI_DougFarrar ‏@SI_DougFarrar 2h
@MockingTheDraft @JoshNorris Is a system thing, though? Matthews is more proficient to me, but Robinson is just a freakin' snowblower.

Ryan Lownes ‏@ryanlownes 2h
@MockingTheDraft @JoshNorris Agreed, Robinson's footwork is still raw and we have to work harder to project him at the next level.

Dan Kadar ‏@MockingTheDraft 2h
@ryanlownes @JoshNorris I still have some questions about Robinson's footwork in pass protection. Not so much with Matthews.

Ryan Lownes ‏@ryanlownes 2h
@MockingTheDraft @JoshNorris Sorry to jump in, but I agree. Robinson more of a sexy option. His tape + size/athleticism will win teams over.

Dan Kadar ‏@MockingTheDraft 2h
@JoshNorris I still prefer Matthews myself, but they're close and I can see why teams would prefer Robinson.

Josh Norris ‏@JoshNorris 2h
@MockingTheDraft Agree. I think it is an upset if Matthews goes ahead of Robinson.

Dan Kadar ‏@MockingTheDraft 2h
Ignore your loved one and listen to our podcast: http://sbn.to/1e9EzzI I may have predicted Greg Robinson gets picked before Jake Matthews.

Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline
From a physical skills point of view I'm told Greg Robinson/T/Auburn looks like a freak during combine training- absolute beast...
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
tweets read bottom(oldest)-to-top
[IMGwidthsize=300]http://thegrownupya.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/coffee-talk.jpg[/IMG]

TackleTwitterTalk, with Linda Richman
So these so called scouts are just now realizing what some of us have been saying for over a month.
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
Ryan Lownes ‏@ryanlownes
That said, I'm taking nothing away from Greg Robinson. He's a top six player in this class in my opinion and is an exciting talent.

If there is an injury and I need to make some changes up front, I trust that Matthews can step in at just about any offensive line spot.

I have always been very high on Greg Robinson and he may be the first off the board in May, but I don't care who I am - I'm going Matthews.

Me? I'm taking Jake Matthews. Polished, NFL-ready player with strong technique, good feet/balance, and the necessary toughness.

If you were picking near the top of the draft, which would you take to be your franchise left tackle: Greg Robinson or Jake Matthews?
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
If you were picking near the top of the draft, which would you take to be your franchise left tackle?
If the question is "franchise" LT, then I think the answer is clearly Robinson. He has the potential to be that guy. I don't see Matthews as a "franchise" LT. He's a guy who can probably play any position on the front at a high level, but I don't see him as a pro-bowl caliber LT. Robinson could bust, but if he hits he will be a pro-bowl caliber LT and I think a "franchise" LT is someone who performs at that level. That's my take on it anyway.
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
Stable Of Bros – Drew Hodgon on Jake Matthews
It’s that time of year again, the pre-draft period, when your favorite NFL blogs overflow with the opinions of former scouts, wannabe scouts, critics of scouts, girls that have dated scouts, and every other scout except Scout from To Kill a Mockingbird. Many of these people do outstanding work, but there’s only so much of it one can stomach. In an effort to bring a little variety to the melange of player reports, I’ve asked a few fomer NFL players to give their opinions on some of this year’s prospects. I call them my Stable of Bros, and you will read them because I’ll go Incognito on you if you don’t. Also, I figure they’ll have a slightly different perspective. Cool, right?

My first Bro Scout is Drew Hodgdon. He lives in Chicago and he’s awesome. He was a center for several years with the Texans. He survived on guile, scrappiness, and a tempered scorn for defensive tackles. Drew knows his stuff. I used to make him take extra reps against me in practice because he did such a good job of exploiting my weaknesses. Hard to say that with a straight face, since I had zero weaknesses (You don’t have access to film, right?). Drew’s got an eye for this stuff and knows what he’s talking about. He’ll be doing a player a day until he quits or at least until his form starts to suffer...
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
Video HT.com: http://t.co/4gS5t2QN89

@jwyattsports: Asked Jake Matthews what his dad is up to. In Bruce-like fashion, he replied: "Nothing much. He just got fired."


Dan Kadar ‏@MockingTheDraft
Matthews said he'll do all drills at the combine.

Matthews on A&M being O-line university "I like that."

Jake Matthews said he never had any issues with what Johnny Manziel did off the field.
Dane Brugler ‏@dpbrugler
Matthews commanding the room. Clearly intelligent and confident. Articulate and detailed answers pic.twitter.com/7AWwERLiFO

Matthews on Manziel: "You never know what to expect. He's all over the place." Also called him a good leader.

Matthews: "I thought Kony Ealy was tough. Big and strong. Mixed up pass moves well. Guys who mix it up are tough"

Jake Matthews on family NFL bloodlines: "I'd like to think I wasn't grandfathered in". Said no pressure
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
I could not remember him. Here is his time with Texans per wiki:

He was selected by the Texans in the fifth round (151st overall) of the 2005 NFL Draft. He saw action in four games during his rookie season, starting three, before being placed on the injured reserve list. He increased his playing time in his second season, when he saw action in eight games and started in five. He was released just before the 2007 season, but was resigned on December 4, 2007. Some time after, he was released once more, never to be seen or heard from again. However, that changed on November 2013, when he talked on a Houston radio station. He talked about the Texans miserable season and a bike wreck.[1]
 

Blake

MMQB
Probably not what he wanted, but 24 is still a good number. Wont be in the top 15 performers in the OL though.
 

Blake

MMQB
Exact same as Duane Brown's.
This is one of those drills that make you go hmmmm?

I dont understand how this gives them insight to a players ability to play football and I dont understand how their number of reps can help differentiate them from one another.
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
This is one of those drills that make you go hmmmm?

I dont understand how this gives them insight to a players ability to play football and I dont understand how their number of reps can help differentiate them from one another.
Strength in the upper body in a series of reps which mimicks the number of plays in a long controlled drive seems pretty significant to me. The weaker ones will have problems in the NFL unless they find an alternative like hand skills.
 

bah007

Hall of Fame
I'd rather see a powerball toss than a Bench Press burnout. How likely is it that Matthews will ever be forced to push a defender 24 consecutive times without any rest whatsoever?

Powerball toss measures explosive power, which is far more important than muscular endurance.
 

Blake

MMQB
Strength in the upper body in a series of reps which mimicks the number of plays in a long controlled drive seems pretty significant to me. The weaker ones will have problems in the NFL unless they find an alternative like hand skills.
Thats what you are going with? Bench press simulates a series of plays in a long drive down the field? Significant?

Bench press has little to do with a players ability. I dont think I have to spell it out but if a player does 5, then yes you have a problem, but all these prospects do about 20-30.
 

Blake

MMQB
I'd rather see a powerball toss than a Bench Press burnout. How likely is it that Matthews will ever be forced to push a defender 24 consecutive times without any rest whatsoever?

Powerball toss measures explosive power, which is far more important than muscular endurance.
Exactly. I am more worried about explosion (broad jump/vertical leap) and change of direction (cone drills) than bench press.
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
Dane Brugler ‏@dpbrugler
Greg Robinson put up 32 reps of 225 lbs on the bench
Matthews 33 3/8" & 24 reps
Robinson 35" & 32 reps

vaughn mcclure ‏@vxmcclure23
130 pancake blocks for Robinson
Greg Gabriel ‏@greggabe
The power to knock people off the ball comes from a mans lower body and snap thru his hips not the bench

People are getting overly concerned about bench reps. They shouldn't. It is not an indicator of power. It's more endurance strength
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I'd rather see a powerball toss than a Bench Press burnout. How likely is it that Matthews will ever be forced to push a defender 24 consecutive times without any rest whatsoever?

Powerball toss measures explosive power, which is far more important than muscular endurance.
Thats what you are going with? Bench press simulates a series of plays in a long drive down the field? Significant?

Bench press has little to do with a players ability. I dont think I have to spell it out but if a player does 5, then yes you have a problem, but all these prospects do about 20-30.
BP is important for OL and DL, it indicates upper body strength. Important indicator for initial punch, controlling and directing opponent, leverage. < 25 225 reps says player needs to get stronger.
 

Blake

MMQB
BP is important for OL and DL, it indicates upper body strength. Important indicator for initial punch, controlling and directing opponent, leverage. < 25 225 reps says player needs to get stronger.
There are more effective ways to gauge punch power. Hell, there is a specific machine that does it.
 

bah007

Hall of Fame
BP is important for OL and DL, it indicates upper body strength. Important indicator for initial punch, controlling and directing opponent, leverage. < 25 225 reps says player needs to get stronger.
Regardless of what you may have heard or read, a max rep BP does not indicate strength. Anything over 8-12 reps is purely a test of muscular endurance.

A single rep BP would be a better indicator for initial punch, as it is only a single punch and not a test of how many punches in a row you can do before getting tired.

The difference between being able to do 20 reps or 25 reps is negligible as far as maximum strength is concerned.

Another issue with the BP is that it is done on your back with the bench as a stabilizer behind you. In a game situation, the player would be on his feet with no stabilizing force behind him to push back against.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Thats what you are going with? Bench press simulates a series of plays in a long drive down the field? Significant?

Bench press has little to do with a players ability. I dont think I have to spell it out but if a player does 5, then yes you have a problem, but all these prospects do about 20-30.
Bench press has little to do with an offensive linemans's ability. They rarely use their arms to muscle defenders, especially in pass pro. I want to see the big hogs pull/push a sled.

Defensive linemen on the other hand, they're benchpressing those big OL off the on every play. LBs too. I'm interested in a LBs bench.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Bench press has little to do with an offensive linemans's ability. They rarely use their arms to muscle defenders, especially in pass pro. I want to see the big hogs pull/push a sled.

Defensive linemen on the other hand, they're benchpressing those big OL off the on every play. LBs too. I'm interested in a LBs bench.
The first thing OL do is use their arms, especially in the run game. The first they do is punch and try to establish position. Arms are extremely important in gaining leverage. That's why it's so important for DLineman to have good hand work and technique. Arm and head position is very important in controlling and directing Dlineman.
 
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