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Jake Matthews now #1

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
I'm thinking Matthews is second half of first round level talent.
If his name wasn't Matthews then nobody on this board would be talking about him at #1. He's a very good player and will be a solid player in the NFL, but he's not going to be a cornerstone OT for a franchise.
 

bah007

Hall of Fame
Stop it already, We're already done here. I see you woke up argumentative this morning. ON this we can agree, you're NOT a doctor.
Typical of you to take your ball and go home when your silly arguments are torn to pieces. Later.

Let's get CND in here and see who he agrees with. Because I can guarantee you aren't close on this one.
 

Blake

MMQB
Stop it already, We're already done here. I see you woke up argumentative this morning. ON this we can agree, you're NOT a doctor.
And you are a doctor? The one shouting about Foster's back surgery and its implications?

:spit:
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
And you are a doctor? The one shouting about Foster's back surgery and its implications?

:spit:
I clarified my comments several times starting with IMHO and concluding with not many RBs have returned from back surgery to be as successful as they were before they had they had back surgery. I'm not sure a medical degree is needed to make that assumption. If you feel I am wrong feel free to list all those RBs who have been as successful after having such surgeries.
 

bah007

Hall of Fame
I clarified my comments several times starting with IMHO and concluding with not many RBs have returned from back surgery to be as successful as they were before they had they had back surgery. I'm not sure a medical degree is needed to make that assumption.
Neither is it needed to make the safe assumption that four neck surgeries is far more complicated and serious than a single back surgery.


Oh I'm sorry.. IMHO
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
No. They can't. We have to go crazy to get to $17m.

Learn this site and how to use it. It explains a lot of things.
http://overthecap.com/nfl-cap-space.php?Year=2013

ps Schaub will have $10.5M in dead money, not $7.5M.
ps..... If we cut Matt Schaub we'll gain $4M towards the cap. If we make him a June 1st cut, $7.5M will be pushed into 2014. Our 2014 cap would go up an additional $7.5M.... $11.5M to cut Matt Schaub in 2014.

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans

says we're starting at $9M under the 2014 cap. Add the $11.5M from cutting Matt Schaub & we're at $20.5M

Cut Owen Daniels we save another $4.5M....... $25M

Cut Danieal Manning, another $4.5m....... $29.5M

Cut Brice McCain, just because we can; $800K...... $30.3M

Cut Tim Jamison; $730K...... $31M

Cut Derek Newton; $640K..... $31.6M

Cut Shilo Keo; $640K.... $32M

Cut Randy Bullock; $570K...... $32.5M

Cut Brandon Smelley; $570K..... $33M

Cut Alex Kupper; Jonathan Grimes; Case Keenum; Jawanza Starling; Evan Frierson; $2.5M.... $35.5M


& so far, the only thing going into the 2015 cap is Schaub's $7.5M dead money.

We can also renegotiate with Jjo & get another $5M, but we'll be pushing more dead money into 2015. Chris Myers, Duane Brown & (I believe) Andre Johnson could also renegotiate if needed.

& if you'd rather, we can cut Tj & keep Case. But Tj has won 3 regular season games & has play-off experience.

Lastly, this is not to throw away the 2014 season. This is to free up money to go after FA to help us win in 2014.
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'm thinking Matthews is second half of first round level talent.
The problem is the GMs don't agree. I'd love to trade down to 5 or 6 and pick up a 12-15 and draft Matthews. But that's not going to happen.

Best case scenario absent a trade partner? Draft Clowney who has the riot act explained to him by Watt and Cushing getting the most out of him on every play. Then have Bortles drop to 2-1. Brennan Williams and David Quessenberry fully recover to stack the line and Manning and a third round pick at safety shore up the secondary.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
And you are?
No I'm not. Never pretended to be. My comments were I am not familiar with any RB who was as successful after back surgery as he was before back surgery. I don't believe a medical degree is required to make such a statement. I still stand by both of these statements.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
No I'm not. Never pretended to be. My comments were I am not familiar with any RB who was as successful after back surgery as he was before back surgery. I don't believe a medical degree is required to make such a statement. I still stand by both of these statements.
Can you list some who have undergone surgery other than Slaton and Foster?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Can you list some who have undergone surgery other than Slaton and Foster?
Slaton underwent some kind of neck surgery huh? He had nerve issues... Foster doesn't, not that I know of. I also don't see any reason back issues would be a problem for Arian. It's not like he's Tmac or something.
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
Slaton underwent some kind of neck surgery huh? He had nerve issues... Foster doesn't, not that I know of. I also don't see any reason back issues would be a problem for Arian. It's not like he's Tmac or something.
I have more worries about the tread on Foster's tires than his back surgery. I think he can come back just fine from the surgery, but he only has 2-3 years left of top production. He will start declining soon, surgery or not. You can already see his body starting to wear out with all the injuries.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I have more worries about the tread on Foster's tires than his back surgery. I think he can come back just fine from the surgery, but he only has 2-3 years left of top production. He will start declining soon, surgery or not. You can already see his body starting to wear out with all the injuries.
Why would anyone want to remove 2-3 years of top production by Foster from this team? Not directed at you, just asking?
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
Jake Matthews, now not in this guy's top 10: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfldraftscout-DaneBrugler

Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein
Most project Matthews to tackle, but some project him to center RT @traceydhoover: @LanceZierlein so they don't project him to be a tackle?

I could see Jake Matthews as an outstanding center in the league. Jake’s dad Bruce played tackle guard and finally center during his career

Respected personnel man in Mobile told me teams are starting to consider A&M’s Jake Matthews as a center. That could impact his draft stock
 

Texn4life

All Pro
IMO Matthews had a better season last year. He definitely doesn't project as a LT to me. He's more of a RT or RG if anything. The Center thing I just can't see, but talent evaluators know much more than me I'm sure.
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
Both Matthews and Lewan had better junior years than senior years. Both could have been drafted very high as LT's, but they came back and now Matthews is being looked at as a RT, OG, or C by some and Lewan is being talked about as a RT.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
IMHO I don't think Matthews will be the first OT taken in the draft. There are a couple of more athletic OTs that could be in this draft. Matthews last few games were disappointing.
and now there is talk of him playing center....not surprised.
 

Dutchrudder

Hall of Fame
Did he get measured recently? Are his arms really short? Why are people discussing him as a center instead of a guard or tackle? That's a big downgrade.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
But where he went to school and who his daddy is are two main reasons why he is so highly rated around here, both of which have nothing to do with his own ability.
He has been listed in the top 5 players all around the country very consistently. What is this "around here" you speak of?

I am not in favor of drafting him high and have said so on many occasions, but I think you are over-playing the whose your daddy/school card.
 

bah007

Hall of Fame
He has been listed in the top 5 players all around the country very consistently. What is this "around here" you speak of?

I am not in favor of drafting him high and have said so on many occasions, but I think you are over-playing the whose your daddy/school card.
I think he is a very good prospect but all of the #1 overall talk on this board came mainly from A&M fans (of which we have quite a few, Houston and College Station being so close) and those who would point to the success of his father, despite them being two different players.

This is a total guess but I imagine if there were a poll among NFL fanbases on what Matthews' future holds he would score highest in Houston.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
I think he is a very good prospect but all of the #1 overall talk on this board came mainly from A&M fans (of which we have quite a few, Houston and College Station being so close) and those who would point to the success of his father, despite them being two different players.

This is a total guess but I imagine if there were a poll among NFL fanbases on what Matthews' future holds he would score highest in Houston.
You are probably correct on the polling. My point is he is legitimately in the conversation based on national reviews. It's not like elsewhere he is ranked like Duane Brown coming out and only getting top pick play around here.
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
He has been listed in the top 5 players all around the country very consistently. What is this "around here" you speak of?

I am not in favor of drafting him high and have said so on many occasions, but I think you are over-playing the whose your daddy/school card.
The whose your daddy/school card has drawn as much or more criticism than support. He is probably NFL ready at a position that often takes a couple of years. He has been ranked highly NATIONALLY, but is moving up and down the boards as time goes by as most players do this time of year.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Which makes the people that were saying we should use our first overall on him look even more foolish, and there were several.
For the record, I don't know & didn't know if he would be a LT or not.... still don't. My stance was if he grades out to be a LT, & I even said it doesn't have to be Matthews, Lewan, or Robinson... if any of them grades out to be a LT I would draft him over Bridgewater if Bridgewater doesn't grade out to be a franchise QB.

I don't want to draft a QB just because we need one especially if there is talent worthy of the #1 overall available, be it a WR, a DE, a CB, or a LT...... even a RB, but I don't think they exist anymore.

Now you may believe Bridgewater grades out as a franchise QB. I don't. I think he'll probably be a solid starter, worthy of a first round pick, but not necessarily the #1 overall, I'm not sold that he is the best player in this draft.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
He has been listed in the top 5 players all around the country very consistently. What is this "around here" you speak of?

I am not in favor of drafting him high and have said so on many occasions, but I think you are over-playing the whose your daddy/school card.
The Mathews name isn't just locally known. Don't forget Clay sr of the browns and jr In Greenbay. Hat name carries a lot of weight all over the national footbal league.
 

Blake

MMQB
Now you may believe Bridgewater grades out as a franchise QB. I don't. I think he'll probably be a solid starter, worthy of a first round pick, but not necessarily the #1 overall, I'm not sold that he is the best player in this draft.
What is your list of players who are worthy of the #1 overall pick?
 

b0ng

Bad Hombre
For the record, I don't know & didn't know if he would be a LT or not.... still don't. My stance was if he grades out to be a LT, & I even said it doesn't have to be Matthews, Lewan, or Robinson... if any of them grades out to be a LT I would draft him over Bridgewater if Bridgewater doesn't grade out to be a franchise QB.

I don't want to draft a QB just because we need one especially if there is talent worthy of the #1 overall available, be it a WR, a DE, a CB, or a LT...... even a RB, but I don't think they exist anymore.

Now you may believe Bridgewater grades out as a franchise QB. I don't. I think he'll probably be a solid starter, worthy of a first round pick, but not necessarily the #1 overall, I'm not sold that he is the best player in this draft.
Let me relate these to Madden Grades and the draft.

If you've got Clowney at a 96, Matthews as a 94 and some other prospect (Say Anthony Barr) at 93, but you have either Bridgewater or Manziel even close to those dudes in your grades, and you need a QB, you have to take one of those two QB's. I don't have to explain to you how important QB's are in this game, and I'm sure you understand how difficult in can be to get a QB who can be a game breaker.

Maybe in your evaluations of whatever you don't think Teddy or Johnny can be those guys and thats fine then go with whomever. But if your honest evaluations put either of the QB's close to the guys who you think will be the best players from the draft you almost have to take the QB. It's really that simple.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What is your list of players who are worthy of the #1 overall pick?
I don't know any of these kids. I don't watch college football. I feel like I know what a franchise QB is, the prototype anyway. Bridgewater doesn't meet them, imo. He's falls short on several points.

I've been spending what little time I have looking at QBs, I haven't looked at other positions, which is why I've always said "if"
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Let me relate these to Madden Grades and the draft.

If you've got Clowney at a 96, Matthews as a 94 and some other prospect (Say Anthony Barr) at 93, but you have either Bridgewater or Manziel even close to those dudes in your grades, and you need a QB, you have to take one of those two QB's. I don't have to explain to you how important QB's are in this game, and I'm sure you understand how difficult in can be to get a QB who can be a game breaker.

Maybe in your evaluations of whatever you don't think Teddy or Johnny can be those guys and thats fine then go with whomever. But if your honest evaluations put either of the QB's close to the guys who you think will be the best players from the draft you almost have to take the QB. It's really that simple.
Agreed. I've never said any different.

In other words, I don't have Johnny, or Teddy that close to prototypical.
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Let me relate these to Madden Grades and the draft.

If you've got Clowney at a 96, Matthews as a 94 and some other prospect (Say Anthony Barr) at 93, but you have either Bridgewater or Manziel even close to those dudes in your grades, and you need a QB, you have to take one of those two QB's. I don't have to explain to you how important QB's are in this game, and I'm sure you understand how difficult in can be to get a QB who can be a game breaker.

Maybe in your evaluations of whatever you don't think Teddy or Johnny can be those guys and thats fine then go with whomever. But if your honest evaluations put either of the QB's close to the guys who you think will be the best players from the draft you almost have to take the QB. It's really that simple.
You're expressing a common QB centric viewpoint. I for one, think this is overdone. But it is the root of our differences in whether to trade down, pick another player or take the best QB. Your football worldview will determine your position for the most part.

I'd like to see how many Superbowls were won by the highest paid QB that season. I suspect very few since most of the rewards come after the Superbowl has been won rather than before it.
 

Blake

MMQB
Now you may believe Bridgewater grades out as a franchise QB. I don't. I think he'll probably be a solid starter, worthy of a first round pick, but not necessarily the #1 overall, I'm not sold that he is the best player in this draft.
I don't know any of these kids. I don't watch college football. I feel like I know what a franchise QB is, the prototype anyway. Bridgewater doesn't meet them, imo. He's falls short on several points.

I've been spending what little time I have looking at QBs, I haven't looked at other positions, which is why I've always said "if"
You say you are not sold that Teddy is the best player in the draft, yet you admit that you don't watch college football and don't know any of these "kids."

Teddy is not in the 1983 draft, 2004 or even 2011 draft. He is in the 2014 draft and is a lock as a top 5 pick. You may not think he is a franchise QB, but none of these kids are. They are potential franchise QBs.

You still dont like Teddy as a prospect? Ok, then give us an alternative besides trading down to a mythical team who is willing to mortgage its future on the same player(s) that you are ready to get away from.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You say you are not sold that Teddy is the best player in the draft, yet you admit that you don't watch college football and don't know any of these "kids."

Teddy is not in the 1983 draft, 2004 or even 2011 draft. He is in the 2014 draft and is a lock as a top 5 pick. You may not think he is a franchise QB, but none of these kids are. They are potential franchise QBs.

You still dont like Teddy as a prospect? Ok, then give us an alternative besides trading down to a mythical team who is willing to mortgage its future on the same player(s) that you are ready to get away from.
If Sammy Watkins turns out to be the best player in this draft, I'd draft him. I'd sign Freeman, then draft Mettenberger in the 2nd, or McCarron in the third. I think it's just as possible for them to turn into a franchise QB as Bridgewater & Manziel.

Imagine Freeman throwing the ball to Aj, Hopkins, & Watkins. Or better yet Metenberger or McCarron beating Freeman for the starting job. If we get a RT in the third, or Brennan pans out
 

matts290

Waterboy
If Sammy Watkins turns out to be the best player in this draft, I'd draft him. I'd sign Freeman, then draft Mettenberger in the 2nd, or McCarron in the third. I think it's just as possible for them to turn into a franchise QB as Bridgewater & Manziel.

Imagine Freeman throwing the ball to Aj, Hopkins, & Watkins. Or better yet Metenberger or McCarron beating Freeman for the starting job. If we get a RT in the third, or Brennan pans out
Josh Freeman...Josh freaking Freeman? You know he is a terrible QB and is probably out of the league for good, he couldn't beat out Christian Ponder or Matt Cassel for a job and you want to sign him?
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
If Sammy Watkins turns out to be the best player in this draft, I'd draft him. I'd sign Freeman, then draft Mettenberger in the 2nd, or McCarron in the third. I think it's just as possible for them to turn into a franchise QB as Bridgewater & Manziel.

Imagine Freeman throwing the ball to Aj, Hopkins, & Watkins. Or better yet Metenberger or McCarron beating Freeman for the starting job. If we get a RT in the third, or Brennan pans out
It doesn't matter if he's throwing to Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Calvin Johnson. The dude is a horrible QB. Giving him talent doesn't change that.

This is the same problem the Texans already fell into. Surround a mediocre QB with great talent and he will elevate. No, he won't. He'll still be the same mediocre QB, just with better weapons.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Josh Freeman...Josh freaking Freeman? You know he is a terrible QB and is probably out of the league for good, he couldn't beat out Christian Ponder or Matt Cassel for a job and you want to sign him?
Are you familiar with the situation he was in this year?
 

matts290

Waterboy
Are you familiar with the situation he was in this year?
Yes very familiar. He showed promise in 2010 his first full year starting, and then regressed a lot in 2011. His numbers ticked back up in 2012 but he still didn't look to be taking big strides and then this year he really took a plummet before getting release and picked up by the Vikings. They gave him a decent chunk of change and made it obvious they planned to start him, and then he bombed big time in the Monday night game against the Gaints, couldn't hit the broadside of the barn. He is not a good QB, anyone that watches him knows that. Mike Glennon came in as a rookie and looked way better than him in the same Bucs offense.
 
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