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It's time to make Faggins a back up

C

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
Why not go ahead and groom Bennett, Faggins is clearly not a NFL caliber #2 CB

Its time to see what Fred can do when the bullets are flying.

Faggins has given up like 5 TDs the past 2 games

Every minute he is out there is another minute waisted on the future.
 
Faggins is obviously just a nickel back, but this team has no #2 option & he is the best choice.
 
Carr Bomb said:
Why not go ahead and groom Bennett, Faggins is clearly not a NFL caliber #2 CB

Its time to see what Fred can do when the bullets are flying.

Faggins has given up like 5 TDs the past 2 games

Every minute he is out there is another minute waisted on the future.
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We really need a true #2 CB and they are grooming Freddy B. to hopefully take that over. But Bennett is no where near ready to take that role over right now....he has outplayed the 4th rd pick selection but he is still young and will get burned.

In Faggins defense he is guarding a top 5 WR with the #1 QB throwing to him....but then again he doesn't play too well against lesser matchups either.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
In Faggins defense he is guarding a top 5 WR with the #1 QB throwing to him....but then again he doesn't play too well against lesser matchups either.
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Faggins is getting burned everytime the ball is snapped. He is just about useless at this point, why not start grooming Fred now? Trial by fire!
 
Actually, I greatly disagree........how is Bennett "not ready"

Explain to me how Bennett could possibly do any worse than Faggins. Faggins is a sixth round pick that is getting PICKED on. He has been exposed on film for the world to see.

Right now Fred Bennett is a upgrade.....atleast he has size and more speed going for him.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
We really need a true #2 CB and they are grooming Freddy B. to hopefully take that over. But Bennett is no where near ready to take that role over right now....he has outplayed the 4th rd pick selection but he is still young and will get burned.

In Faggins defense he is guarding a top 5 WR with the #1 QB throwing to him....but then again he doesn't play too well against lesser matchups either.
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You still want to try to make a argument for Faggins........just cost us a chance to make a comeback with another one of his patent 20 yard cussions.
 
Carr Bomb said:
You still want to try to make a argument for Faggins........just cost us a chance to make a comeback with another one of his patent 20 yard cussions.
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Maybe he is being told by the coaches to give that big cushion so he doesnt get beat deep again.

Its not that unusual.

Either way, he killing us on 3rd down.
 
I want Freddy B. out there. I think he could do much better than Faggins is. Faggins is leaving to much space between him and any WR and he is getting burned on the long balls.
 
Carr Bomb said:
Actually, I greatly disagree........how is Bennett "not ready"

Explain to me how Bennett could possibly do any worse than Faggins. Faggins is a sixth round pick that is getting PICKED on. He has been exposed on film for the world to see.

Right now Fred Bennett is a upgrade.....atleast he has size and more speed going for him.
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Explain to me how hes an upgrade, explain how YOU think he can do better then Faggins. Explain to me what games you watch him played that makes you believe he can contribute right now. Do you even have any idea what you're talking about?
 
It's time to bring in some more CB's this off season and relegate Faggins to Texans history. Maybe Bennett isn't ready but even if he's completely unready I can't see how he could be abused worse than Faggins.

Lets face facts people. Our secondary is a running case of "You ARE the weakest link". There's always one guy back there waiting to give the game away. DeMarcus Faggins is this years Matt Stevens. We may not have anyone better to run out on the field but we can't lie about what we see. Peyton picked on him all day long (as he should have). Faggins is a nickel at best and more than likely on his way out. He's had a heck of a run for a 6th but it's time we got that secondary in order. Our DL rocks, our linebackers are playing their butts off. Our secondary must be improved.
 
J-Russ said:
Explain to me how hes an upgrade, explain how YOU think he can do better then Faggins. Explain to me what games you watch him played to think hes actually ready to play. Do you even have any idea what you're talking about?
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This is quite easy

Fred Bennet.........has wait for it.........wait for it........UPSIDE AND POTENTIAL!!!

Faggins has maxed out on his potenial........he is NEVER GOING TO GET BETTER and at his age, his skills (I say that losely) is only going to erode.

Did anybody see Dunta play before we threw him out there........no.

Fred Bennet has all the tools to be a very good corner in this league, he has things you can't teach sizE, speed, and ball skills, when given time he's played better than Faggins.

What the heck are you afraid of............are you afraid Bennet is going to give up multiple TDs and play soft against the run? I hate to break this to you, but we are getting that RIGHT NOW!

Football is also about developing players, especially when those young players on the bench can't possibly do any worst than the starter thats already out there.

Bennet played in the SEC, he has played against top elite opposition in college and one thing I've noticed about SEC players........they tend to do quite well at the next level.

P.S. please don't ask me if I know what I'm talking about. I've seen what happens when you hang on to lame ducks and don't develop talent.......you end up being the 2007 Astros

The Colts had no problem going with youth at the CB positions and now they are see the benefits.
 
Carr Bomb said:
Right now Fred Bennett is a upgrade.....atleast he has size and more speed going for him.
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You have to have more than size and speed to be an upgrade. You have to know your assignment. You have to know the scheme. Yeah, he might have more size and speed, but what good is that going to do you if you bust a coverage.

Bennett and Fletcher are not starting over Faggins for good reasons.
 
Do you think Kubiak is stupid, he knows what he doing. If he thinks Bennet can do better he'll put him in. But guess what, hes 4th CB. That means 3 other CB are BETTER then him. Yea he got upside, but we're trying to win now and if Kubiak thinks Faggins is the 2nd best CB on the team, then I trust him judgement. How many times have you seen Bennet out on the field,on defense,when he was activated for the game? I can honestly say I have not seen him out there one time. Maybe thats because Kubiak knows he'll do worse then the other CB. Gee, you haven't thought of that did ya?

And if you don't think any other CB can do worse then Faggins, then I guess you forgot about P-burnt already. How do you know Bennet is not another P-Burnt?
 
Isn't Bennett injured anyways?

Either way, I'd feel much more confidant in a former 1st rd draft pick (Fletcher) out there than Petey at this point.

On the plus side, not too many teams have 2 great receivers so we'll be okay as long as we don't face those teams.
 
Marcus said:
You have to have more than size and speed to be an upgrade. You have to know your assignment. You have to know the scheme. Yeah, he might have more size and speed, but what good is that going to do you if you bust a coverage.

Bennett and Fletcher are not starting over Faggins for good reasons.
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My argument is he can't do worse, Faggins is already busting coverage, Faggins is already getting burnt left and right. Faggins has been a starter for like 4 years now and hasn't improved.

We could be getting burned with another CB out there that can learn on the fly and improve. Why waste snaps with a CB thats never going to improve, especailly when every opposing team that we face is going to be having comedy hour film sessions watching him on tape.

I can't believe people are still wanting to stick by him.
 
I think that Fletcher should get the start over Faggins. Fletcher seems to make alot of plays when he is in the game. We don't have the luxury of playing against mediocre QBs and Faggins is killing us when we play these teams with dangerous passing attacks. Peyton rarely threw at D-Rob but went to Faggins side almost everytime. Seeing Faggins give Steve Smith like 10 yards on the goal line (twice) tells me he doesn't have the recovery speed. These teams are too smart for that.

Marcus it doesn't matter if the guy knows what he is doing if he can't do it. Faggins may know what coverage he is supposed to be in but he gets beat anyway...who the hell cares how much he knows if he sucks. I'm sorry it's just so obvious.
 
We shall see how the coaches handle this.

Right now Faggins > Bennett.

Sure Faggins gave up A LOT of catches today. I'm not argueing he's a good CB #2, I'm arguing he is better than Bennett is right now.

I'd like to see someone new there just as much as you, but I'm more willing to let them develop Bennett. If I hear you correctly, your saying Bennett has more upside, which I completely agree with. Sometimes players develop better if they aren't thrown into a starting role right away. Sometimes players develop better by being a back up.

I understand your point that Bennett couldn't be any worse than Faggins. Faggins gave up some big catches, and some 1st downs that hurt us. he didn't give up any TD's though. We're all 'guessing' here, but I'd guess if Bennett were covering Harrison the whole day, he would have given up a TD.

At least we were in the game untill the end.. I hope Bennett can come in and get some playing time and prove to us he's ready to start.

scratch that...fletcher did have a bad break on the ball for Addai's 2nd TD run. lol but I still think we need to develop Bennett more before he actually starts for us. I'd rather start Fletcher at this point too :)
 
Carr Bomb said:
My argument is he can't do worse, Faggins is already busting coverage, Faggins is already getting burnt left and right. Faggins has been a starter for like 4 years now and hasn't improved.

We could be getting burned with another CB out there that can learn on the fly and improve. Why waste snaps with a CB thats never going to improve, especailly when every opposing team that we face is going to be having comedy hour film sessions watching him on tape.

I can't believe people are still wanting to stick by him.
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Thats not true.

Faggins has improved every year.

He's just still not very good.
 
Marcus said:
You have to have more than size and speed to be an upgrade. You have to know your assignment. You have to know the scheme. Yeah, he might have more size and speed, but what good is that going to do you if you bust a coverage.

Bennett and Fletcher are not starting over Faggins for good reasons.
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bah007 said:
Thats not true.

Faggins has improved every year.

He's just still not very good.
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Yeah, because he certainly stepped up his game this year........Kudos to him only holding Steve Smith to 2tds and a hundred yards. If it wasn't for the masterful play of Faggins Smith would of easily went off for 5 TDs

Faggins has been the same CB for the past 3 years and he's even worse this year.
 
Faggins is one of those guys that falls under "serviceable." They throw him out there, tell him not to get beat deep and he gives a 20 yrd cushion and teams just pick up 10 a pop on his side. I can basically say he plays football and that is almost a reach. We want to win now but I'm not sure if you don't switch some series up with Bennett and give him the same instructions and see if he can learn and be better.
 
Faggins is awful. I'd start Bennett just as a means to prepare for our first round pick next year. If Bennett passes the test, good. If not we know the most pressing need from a defensive standpoint.
 
Marcus said:
It's not a question of me 'sticking by him'.

Go back and re-read my post.
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Fine, if you want to go with Fletcher, thats fine with me.

Frankly I don't care who we throw out there, as long as it's not Faggins. That experiment is over as far as I'm concerned.
 
i've been sticking up for faggins for a long time now, and frankly i'm ready for a change. he's stinking it up in coverage, he's very hesitant, and needs to be sat out until he steps it up. i'm aware that covering steve smith & marvin harrison is near impossible for anyone, but he's looked horrible thus far.
 
HoustonFrog said:
They throw him out there, tell him not to get beat deep and he gives a 20 yrd cushion and teams just pick up 10 a pop on his side.
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Amen. I was getting physically ill watching that over and over again during the game. No jam at the los, just play with a big arse cushion, and get eaten up for 10-15 per pass attempt.

Is there no one who looks better in practice, etc., than Petey? Surely Kubiak & Co. will have to do something because this is pitiful.

Petey Faggins - you are the weakest link. Goodbye.
 
Isn't Von Hutchins a former CB as well? I know we converted him to safety but maybe we can re-convert him?

Whatever Kubiak decides, I hope that Petey's not manned up on an elite receiver ever again. For the next few weeks we don't have anything to worry about in regards to covering elite receivers, but something needs to be done about the #2 CB obviously.
 
drewmar74 said:
Amen. I was getting physically ill watching that over and over again during the game. Surely Kubiak & Co. will have to do something because this is pitiful.

Petey Faggins - you are the weakest link. Goodbye.
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Someone will be placed on IR for sure after this game....That gives a spot to bring in someone to evaluate...
 
Faggins got punked. He was one of the reasons that the game was lost. I understand not wanting to give up the big play, but you cant give that kind of cushion to the colts. Manning will pick you apart every time. Time for Bennet.
 
If we should try Bennet out as CB #2, next week is the perfect time against a weak Falcon team.

EDIT: Then again, Joey Harrington is looking like Peyton Manning against the Carolina's D.
 
Does anyone know Petey's 40 time? I was always under the impression that he had fairly good ball skills, but had to give a cushion because he lacked top-end speed. But I found he had the best 3-cone time and an excellent 20-yard shuttle time at the 2002 combine.

They were obviously picking on Petey, and we could use an upgrade, but D-Rob, despite an otherwise very good game, got burned by a play fake for a big one as well. Manning also had a lot of time to throw for most of the game. Just sayin'.
 
Bandwagon said:
I don't know why Jamar Fletcher isn't our #2, he's at least made a play on defense this year.
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fletcher played but was burned badly , and missed several tackles ! the only good thing secondary wise I saw was bolware covered a couple of times today and stopped a touchdown on one play .
 
pappy said:
fletcher played but was burned badly , and missed several tackles ! the only good thing secondary wise I saw was bolware covered a couple of times today and stopped a touchdown on one play .
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I saw Boulware burned on acouple of plays, one that sticks out was the colts first TD when Dallas Clark got past him and caught the TD. He was suppose to jam him but didn't and it ended up a TD in about 2 seconds.

I think the only TD stopped in the end zone, was by safety, Von Hutchins.
 
I just got back home from the game....Fletcher was picked on early covering the slot. It was clear that the Colts game planned to pick on him and Faggins. Faggins is a good nickel backer...but he isn't anything but a short term starter at CB2...the colts kept going to the slot and then taking the easy curl on the outside with Faggins unable to play bump and run....Faggins had a huge cushion all game. Until the Texans get a legit cb and move Faggins to the nickel, they will struggle against the pass. That may be till next season.
 
Hervoyel said:
It's time to bring in some more CB's this off season and relegate Faggins to Texans history. Maybe Bennett isn't ready but even if he's completely unready I can't see how he could be abused worse than Faggins.

Lets face facts people. Our secondary is a running case of "You ARE the weakest link". There's always one guy back there waiting to give the game away. DeMarcus Faggins is this years Matt Stevens. We may not have anyone better to run out on the field but we can't lie about what we see. Peyton picked on him all day long (as he should have). Faggins is a nickel at best and more than likely on his way out. He's had a heck of a run for a 6th but it's time we got that secondary in order. Our DL rocks, our linebackers are playing their butts off. Our secondary must be improved.
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In semi-relevant land, and for a complete history, I will share with you something I heard Matt Stevens say after a fan talked to him nicely about the being burnt thing. (not a subject I'd be happy to bring up to a player).

He said that fans have no idea what coverages are called, and that sometimes he got blamed for things that were other people's responsibilities.

He was at the end of his career, and he was a step or three slow, but the players don't chose themselves. They play usually because there is no better option and hope that coaches put them in good positions.

The guy played for 8 years, coming out of Appalachian State, and I am guessing he stayed in the league that long because a. the Texans were desperate for players and b. he was an effort guy.

FWIW, he was a really nice guy, a not terribly good safety. Not defending him, just reporting.

Basically, I'm guessing our plan for cornerback is to hope that Dunta doesn't get hurt, pray a lot, and then maybe spend some of the money next year that will be freed up from contracts. As much as Bob McNair says the Mario signing was about getting pressure on Peyton Manning, better options in the secondary would help in facing the Colts.

Robinson has more confidence (at least publicly) in Faggins than the fanbase does. He was very happy when Faggins came back after injury.
 
In my book Faggins and Fletcher are both going to get you beat because they both have huge holes in their games. Faggins is a step slow with some skill, Fletcher is a gambler with good athleticism both of them can't be relied on.

Personally I would take the athlete who can recover with some speed and make the occasional play.

What is Bennett's weakness? Is it purely experience at this point and if so, why not throw him in the deep end to find his feet?
 
Hervoyel said:
It's time to bring in some more CB's this off season and relegate Faggins to Texans history. Maybe Bennett isn't ready but even if he's completely unready I can't see how he could be abused worse than Faggins.

Lets face facts people. Our secondary is a running case of "You ARE the weakest link". There's always one guy back there waiting to give the game away. DeMarcus Faggins is this years Matt Stevens. We may not have anyone better to run out on the field but we can't lie about what we see. Peyton picked on him all day long (as he should have). Faggins is a nickel at best and more than likely on his way out. He's had a heck of a run for a 6th but it's time we got that secondary in order. Our DL rocks, our linebackers are playing their butts off. Our secondary must be improved.
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YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH.

Marcus said:
You have to have more than size and speed to be an upgrade. You have to know your assignment. You have to know the scheme. Yeah, he might have more size and speed, but what good is that going to do you if you bust a coverage.

Bennett and Fletcher are not starting over Faggins for good reasons.[/QUOTE
I'M NOT SO SURE ABOUT FAGGINS STARTING FOR GOOD REASON. KUBES IS PRETTY LOYAL TO CERTAIN PLAYERS. AFTER WATCHING OUR SUB RECEIVERS TODAY, WHY IS WALTERS STARTING AND ANDRE DAVIS INACTIVE??
At this point, I'm ready to see ANYBODY back there but Faggins. Did Chad Stanley find another job?? At least it would be funny to watch instead of sickening.
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DocBar said:
I'M NOT SO SURE ABOUT FAGGINS STARTING FOR GOOD REASON. KUBES IS PRETTY LOYAL TO CERTAIN PLAYERS. AFTER WATCHING OUR SUB RECEIVERS TODAY, WHY IS WALTERS STARTING AND ANDRE DAVIS INACTIVE??At this point, I'm ready to see ANYBODY back there but Faggins. Did Chad Stanley find another job?? At least it would be funny to watch instead of sickening.
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I think Faggins is there because Robinson likes him on the other side. That he is comfortable that he will do his assignments right. At least that is what he said when Faggins came back from injury.
 
Texans_Chick said:
I think Faggins is there because Robinson likes him on the other side. That he is comfortable that he will do his assignments right. At least that is what he said when Faggins came back from injury.
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That may be the case, but when did D-Rob become the secondary coach? He needs to tend his side of the field and let someone other than Petey worry about the other. By getting his assignments right are you suggesting Petey's playing like we want him to play??? I know you aren't. I'm just really ticked about this right now.:bat:
 
DocBar said:
That may be the case, but when did D-Rob become the secondary coach? He needs to tend his side of the field and let someone other than Petey worry about the other. By getting his assignments right are you suggesting Petey's playing like we want him to play??? I know you aren't. I'm just really ticked about this right now.:bat:
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You could tell how frustrated Robinson was at the beginning of last year. Part of that is that he didn't trust the other corner on the other side to be where he needed to be for what coverages were called. I am certain that if the secondary coach thought there were better options, he would be playing them.

The Texans defense overall played better when Faggins came back. (notwithstanding the Lee Evans experience).

Yeah, Petey has got burnt, but he is a nickle corner and one of the many place holding players that the Texans have to depend on until they draft more and have more salary cap money. I'm not going to blame him for not being a better #2 CB any more than I am going to blame water for being wet. He is a nickle corner being pressed to play #2 because their ain't many better options. Everybody is looking for quality corners and they aren't easy to find.

And better corners have been embarrassed by Steve Smith and Peyton Manning.

I don't know, I just have a hard time killing players who fail when they are playing out of position but are using their best effort. They didn't choose to be put in their position.
 
Texans_Chick said:
You could tell how frustrated Robinson was at the beginning of last year. Part of that is that he didn't trust the other corner on the other side to be where he needed to be for what coverages were called. I am certain that if the secondary coach thought there were better options, he would be playing them.

The Texans defense overall played better when Faggins came back. (notwithstanding the Lee Evans experience).

Yeah, Petey has got burnt, but he is a nickle corner and one of the many place holding players that the Texans have to depend on until they draft more and have more salary cap money. I'm not going to blame him for not being a better #2 CB any more than I am going to blame water for being wet. He is a nickle corner being pressed to play #2 because their ain't many better options. Everybody is looking for quality corners and they aren't easy to find.

And better corners have been embarrassed by Steve Smith and Peyton Manning.

I don't know, I just have a hard time killing players who fail when they are playing out of position but are using their best effort. They didn't choose to be put in their position.
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I'm sure we'll be seeing D-Rob getting frustrated w/ Petey if he keeps giving up big plays. I certainly think he could do a decent job at nickel, but I disagree that he doesn't WANT to be the starting corner. Every player in the NFL wants to be a starter with the exception of GOLDBRICK(AKA David Carr). I'm ready for a changing of the guard at that position. Let's see what Fletcher can do there and see how Petey does at his better suited nickel. He would STILL get plenty of playing time, considering our division, so what would it hurt?
 
beerlover said:
I'm sure CB is going to be a top priority for the Texans in the 08 draft-
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IMHO, Cornerback, Running back, & Center. Not necessarily in that order.

At the same time, I'm watching games all around the league today, and people are getting burnt left & right.

Nine ther QBs threw for more yards than Peyton did today, and Drew Brees hasn't even suited up yet.

19 receivers have more recieving yards than Reggie Wayne, who had no touch downs. 51 receivers had a better day than Marvin Harrison(no touchdowns).

So yeah, go ahead and cry & moan about Petey, but it could be worse.

Now, I know the worst argument you could ever use for any player, is that there are worse players out there. & I'm not trying to make excuses for Petey. But I think some folks are a little harsh on him.

Nobody in this league has two shut down cover corners.

WRs get paid mad money & Petey is relatively cheap, even when you consider what we're getting out of him.

(Man I'm watching the Cowboy Bear game, and Adam Archelletta just gave up a touchdown to Marion Barber. I'm thinking about how soooo many people just want to ditch CC Brown. Archelletta has been abused by Barber & Whitten, both scoring TDs on him. )

Anyway. We don't have stars at every position. but we've got a pretty good team. Petey is a good football player, may not be the best corner in the leagu, but he's a good football player.

Let's just enjoy the ride, and trust Kubiak to do what needs to be done, when he feels we should do it.
 
thunderkyss said:
IMHO, Cornerback, Running back, & Center. Not necessarily in that order.

At the same time, I'm watching games all around the league today, and people are getting burnt left & right.

Nine ther QBs threw for more yards than Peyton did today, and Drew Brees hasn't even suited up yet.

19 receivers have more recieving yards than Reggie Wayne, who had no touch downs. 51 receivers had a better day than Marvin Harrison(no touchdowns).

So yeah, go ahead and cry & moan about Petey, but it could be worse.

Now, I know the worst argument you could ever use for any player, is that there are worse players out there. & I'm not trying to make excuses for Petey. But I think some folks are a little harsh on him.

Nobody in this league has two shut down cover corners.

WRs get paid mad money & Petey is relatively cheap, even when you consider what we're getting out of him.

(Man I'm watching the Cowboy Bear game, and Adam Archelletta just gave up a touchdown to Marion Barber. I'm thinking about how soooo many people just want to ditch CC Brown. Archelletta has been abused by Barber & Whitten, both scoring TDs on him. )

Anyway. We don't have stars at every position. but we've got a pretty good team. Petey is a good football player, may not be the best corner in the leagu, but he's a good football player.

Let's just enjoy the ride, and trust Kubiak to do what needs to be done, when he feels we should do it.
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the real problem with Petey is he's being asked to play out of position (nickle/zone). he lacks the strength & physical nature to jam receivers off the line, then the make-up speed to cover in single coverage.
 
beerlover said:
the real problem with Petey is he's being asked to play out of position (nickle/zone). he lacks the strength & physical nature to jam receivers off the line, then the make-up speed to cover in single coverage.
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So then the question is why is he always in single coverage??

We didn't loose this game because Petey couldn't cover. IMHO, it's more about bad coaching.

Relatively no pass rush, poor coverage by the LBs, and as I mentioned before, a poor game plan against the Colts. We were rushing Manning all day with four down linemen, with with no concern for gap control.

In weeks 1&2, we took away the run, got a lead, and made the other team play catch up.

This week, we virtually ignored the running game, and were on the backs of our heels everytime the Colts had the ball.
 
Leon Halls has been burnt a lot this year and he was drafted when last year? I know I was pretty high on him and Revis.

I'm starting to ease up on our safeties a little (w/ Hutchins,Demps,Boulware,Brown).

It will be interesting to see how we finish (record), serious injuries at the end of the season, our strengths and weaknesses then.

for me, Front runner for 1st rd pick is CB and RB right now- I know a lot of people get mad when others talk about the draft this early... but thats part of the fun of being a young team :)

oh wow, grossman just got picked again. (now there's a #8 i'm glad we don't have! lol )
 
For me, front runner for first FA signing is a CB.

Why not, we have the cap space and does anybody really want to wait 3 years for one to develop? Sign a good CB in FA (even is you have to overpay for one) and be done with it.

I'm all for Asante Samuels at this point.

Sign a good CB, draft a safety, and be done with it.
 
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