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Issues on Offense???

2

2012Champs

Hall of Fame
With Foster looking less than normal, AJ looking a little off and things not going 100% as planned are there any moves that we could make to improve? I'm not sure if there are any Olinemen to pick up but what would it cost to pick up Plex and would it be worth a shot? Just curious even though 5-1 aint bad
 
I'm sure there are pretty good reasons 32 teams have just said NO to plex.

At this stage in the season your chances of picking up any good players off the street are pretty negligible.
 
David anderson ...!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

buttt to late it seems the texans alrady filled the spot the jamesion left with... hUNTER I THINK HES A DT or LB so ....

i just think Lestar jean and Posey need to step it up to help carry some of the slack .. thats the bottom line

and ben tate needs to get healthy FASTTTTTTTTT !!!!!!!!!!!!
 
What this offense needs is David Anderson again.

Instant boost.

Only kidding, but I wonder if Gary lays awake at night and actually contemplates such a move. Probably does. LOL.
 
This FO in the off-season decided it was going to take in-house solutions and to the draft to deal with loses.

On the OL I think this was pretty much the right call, considering Caldwell was supposed to be healthy, Butler had looked capable in spot duty at both tackle spots and we had drafted two OG with good potential. I think bringing Harris was a good call and could help solidify the T spot for the rest of the season as they rotate Newton and him out. If Caldwell doesn't make it this Sunday it might be a chance for Brooks to get some game time reps, which is going to help going into next season.

Far as WR go... there are teams in much more needier positions that haven't made calls to TO or Burress. The Texans aren't going to either. I've seen sparks time to time from Jean (who needs to get healthy) and Martin. Anything this team gets from Posey is icing on the cake (still think it was a bad pick). This team isn't going out of house for WR at this point, those guys need to step it up.

I do honestly, don't think it would be bad at this point to feed the ball outside to AJ. I still think he's capable of taking over a game outside they just haven't tried to do that because this team wants to and can be more balanced.

Mid-season trades are pretty rare in the NFL as opposed to most other leagues, but if I had a say the biggest thing this team should do is make an trade for help at ILB with Cushing's injury.
 
A trade in the middle of the season??

We're going to play with the cards we've already got in our hand, for better or for worse.
 
Not sure if this comment is better suited for the college ball section... but should WR be a 1st or 2nd round pick? I'm very worried about finding a #1 receiver as heir to Andre for the franchise. We struck gold with Dre so long ago that we haven't really bothered to look for another talent. I'm not sure who fits the Andre mold heading into the draft - and I think the FO would look for someone like Andre - a big strong guy (not Megatron big mind) who runs crisp clean routes and beats DBs with technique more than pure physicality.

I think a WR #1 who gets to learn some from Andre would help revitalize our pass offense some more. Dre's not going to be around forever, so we need to find someone who can do as much as he did for this franchise.

What do y'all think? I've read somewhere on this forum that Andre has a groin injury that's been nagging him. Maybe that's the reason for his somewhat inconsistent production...
 
What a terrible offense.

Scored 173 points (28.8/g), 5th of 32 in the NFL. (says pro football reference)

And they surely aren't coming from special teams.

I wonder what we'd be saying if they were 10th in scoring, which would still be better than average?

If anything it's the defense that has issues. We've slipped to 8th there and played only two offenses in the top 20 (well, technically, the Jet's are 20th, so 3).
 
noxiousdog said:
What a terrible offense.

Scored 173 points (28.8/g), 5th of 32 in the NFL. (says pro football reference)

And they surely aren't coming from special teams.

I wonder what we'd be saying if they were 10th in scoring, which would still be better than average?

If anything it's the defense that has issues. We've slipped to 8th there and played only two offenses in the top 20 (well, technically, the Jet's are 20th, so 3).
Click to expand...

Inversely, a good portion of those 173 points come from short field's thanks to defensive turnovers. For the season, Houston has scored at least 41 points off of nine takeaways. If you look at the offense from a yards per game or yards per play, the Texans Offense is ranked somewhere in the middle.

But, more importantly, if you WATCH the games, it's painfully obvious that the offense is struggling more than it's clicking. Fortunately, they are 5-1 and have plenty of upside.

I don't think anyone is accusing them of being terrible. But compared to what we've been used to seeing it's fair to suggest a need for a "boost".

To be fair, you have a good point in that the Defense needs a pick me up too, not to say they are terrible, but given this thread is about offense. I'll jump back on that side of the ball.

If anyone is like me. The first 5 weeks of offensive "meh" I saw, I chalked up to they have a lead, they are playing conservative, not having to tip their hand. Not to say there were signs to suggest concern, but whatever..they are winning. The Jets game started to raise my eyebrows. The Green Bay game changes it for me in the sense that when the offense needed to play with a purpose(again Defense too), and we got "meh" again.
 
htownfan32 said:
Not sure if this comment is better suited for the college ball section... but should WR be a 1st or 2nd round pick? I'm very worried about finding a #1 receiver as heir to Andre for the franchise. We struck gold with Dre so long ago that we haven't really bothered to look for another talent. I'm not sure who fits the Andre mold heading into the draft - and I think the FO would look for someone like Andre - a big strong guy (not Megatron big mind) who runs crisp clean routes and beats DBs with technique more than pure physicality.

I think a WR #1 who gets to learn some from Andre would help revitalize our pass offense some more. Dre's not going to be around forever, so we need to find someone who can do as much as he did for this franchise.

What do y'all think? I've read somewhere on this forum that Andre has a groin injury that's been nagging him. Maybe that's the reason for his somewhat inconsistent production...
Click to expand...

I think there's this economy issue that is also in play.

You draft a WR in the first round and you still have to pay AJ.
It's probably too much money to concentrate on one area of the team.
(Money allocation.)

I think we might have to wait until AJ retires or accepts a lower percentage on the pay scale before we can draft a receiver that high.

Many of us, myself included, wanted a receiver either in the first or second round last year.
We were screening a whole bunch of receivers in the draft section of the MB.
 
76Texan said:
I think there's this economy issue that is also in play.

You draft a WR in the first round and you still have to pay AJ.
It's probably too much money to concentrate on one area of the team.
(Money allocation.)
Click to expand...

Under the new CBA this is a non-issue. Even under the old one only picks far above where the Texans will be picking were exorbitant. Kevin Walter is far more expensive than a 1st round WR rookie.
 
Trail.Blazr said:
Inversely, a good portion of those 173 points come from short field's thanks to defensive turnovers. For the season, Houston has scored at least 41 points off of nine takeaways. If you look at the offense from a yards per game or yards per play, the Texans Offense is ranked somewhere in the middle.

But, more importantly, if you WATCH the games, it's painfully obvious that the offense is struggling more than it's clicking. Fortunately, they are 5-1 and have plenty of upside.

I don't think anyone is accusing them of being terrible. But compared to what we've been used to seeing it's fair to suggest a need for a "boost".

To be fair, you have a good point in that the Defense needs a pick me up too, not to say they are terrible, but given this thread is about offense. I'll jump back on that side of the ball.

If anyone is like me. The first 5 weeks of offensive "meh" I saw, I chalked up to they have a lead, they are playing conservative, not having to tip their hand. Not to say there were signs to suggest concern, but whatever..they are winning. The Jets game started to raise my eyebrows. The Green Bay game changes it for me in the sense that when the offense needed to play with a purpose(again Defense too), and we got "meh" again.
Click to expand...

If we agree with Football Outsiders, the Texans are neither here or there.
Not great, but pretty good, at least in the top third of the league.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff2012

My concern is the line, especially the guard play.
Wade Smith has been a warrior, playing through injuries and such, but his play has been hurting us some.
So did Caldwell's injury.
Ben Jones is playing like a rookie, but a pretty good one, at least a decent one.
Newton has had his bumps, but it looks to me that he has been progressing up to the curve.
It's good to have Harris on board so the OT position seems not to be a weakness.

We miss Dreesen's blocking ability, it seems; however, I'm not sure he would have been much better than OD in the last game.

Warning, do not read this further if you're an OD fan.
If you still want to read it, brace yousself.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/16/refo-packers-texans-week-6/

Daniels as a Blocker

I know Owen Daniels (-2.3) is no blocking tight end, and I wouldn’t ever expect him to put in a great day as a run blocker, but his display against Clay Matthews bordered on embarrassing. Daniels actually looked intimidated by the Packers’ dynamo, and seemed reluctant to make contact at the point of attack because he knew it was just speeding up the process of being tossed aside when the ball arrived for Matthews to make the play.

Daniels is built like a receiver, and will never be a great blocker, but his performance was noticeably different when he was tasked with blocking anybody other than Matthews, and not because that player was easier to handle. There’s an old adage that the majority of blocking on the perimeter is ‘want-to’, and against anybody else Daniels had more than enough of that in store, but as soon as he saw the mane of hair coming towards him his reserves just evaporated and he would barely make contact with his arms before resigning himself to being shoved out of the way. There are days where you are going to be second best in any given area, but at least give it everything you have.
 
infantrycak said:
Under the new CBA this is a non-issue. Even under the old one only picks far above where the Texans will be picking were exorbitant. Kevin Walter is far more expensive than a 1st round WR rookie.
Click to expand...

If you don't mind, so that I don't have to look it up, can you give us a brief run down of the $ for high draft picks under the new CBA?

And what with the structures of AJ's and Walter's contract, and dead money, and so forth.

Let's say you're the GM, how much money do we have tied up on those contracts (including KMart and Posey) and what can we do going forward?

Please also include the scenario where we may keep Jean and cut Posey (in the economic sense.)

I've never been any good with the business side.
 
Texans offense hasn't looked spectacular since Kyle left, I am wondering how much of Kubiaks genius came from Shanny's son when it came to offensive playcalling.
 
76Texan said:
If you don't mind, so that I don't have to look it up, can you give us a brief run down of the $ for high draft picks under the new CBA?

And what with the structures of AJ's and Walter's contract, and dead money, and so forth.

Let's say you're the GM, how much money do we have tied up on those contracts (including KMart and Posey) and what can we do going forward?

Please also include the scenario where we may keep Jean and cut Posey (in the economic sense.)

I've never been any good with the business side.
Click to expand...

It's all slotted now 76, and this was #1 overall pick Andrew Luck's contract per rotoworld:

7/19/2012: Signed a four-year, $22.1 million contract. The deal is fully guaranteed, including a $14.5 million signing bonus. 2012: $390,000, 2013: $1,394,909, 2014: $2,399,818, 2015: $3,404,727, 2016: Free Agent

This is Whitney Mercilus's contract per rotoworld:

6/13/2012: Signed a four-year, $7,634,088 contract. The deal contains $6.55 million guaranteed, including a $3.99 million signing bonus. 2012: $390,000, 2013: $737,004, 2014: $1,084,008, 2015: $1,431,012, 2016: Free Agent

And for comparison to Luck this is Cam Newton's contract which also fell under the new CBA:

7/29/2011: Signed a four-year, $22,025,498 contract. The deal is fully guaranteed, including a $14,518,544 signing bonus. 2012: $1,376,159, 2013: $2,377,318, 2014: $3,378,477, 2015: Free Agent

EDIT: Posey and K-mart contracts are pretty small and really not that bad if they underperform.

LeStar Jean:

7/28/2011: Signed a three-year, $1.407 million contract. The deal included an $87,000 signing bonus. 2012: $390,000, 2013: $555,000, 2014: Restricted Free Agent

DeVier Posey:

7/23/2012: Signed a four-year, $2.69 million contract. The deal included a $684,092 signing bonus. 2012: $390,000, 2013: $510,000, 2014: $630,000, 2015: $748,000, 2016: Free Agent

Those are pretty much nothing contracts that you probably don't have to worry about cutting unless they are severely underperforming. Drafting a bust in the first round is nowhere near the financial hardship it once was.

EDIT2: draft slotting explained

Contracts for first-round picks would be a fixed four years in length, with teams holding options for the fifth year. If the team chooses to exercise that option a year early, after the contract's third year, the fifth-year option salary is guaranteed to the player.

Each rookie would likely receive a standard slotted salary in the first four seasons, and then the option year's wage would depend on the player's draft slot.

The top 10 picks would receive a salary equal to the average of the top 10 salaries at their respective positions. Picks No. 11 through No. 32 would get the average of the Nos. 3 through 25 salaries at their positions.
Click to expand...

Source
 
2012Champs said:
With Foster looking less than normal, AJ looking a little off and things not going 100% as planned are there any moves that we could make to improve? I'm not sure if there are any Olinemen to pick up but what would it cost to pick up Plex and would it be worth a shot? Just curious even though 5-1 aint bad
Click to expand...

We have the talent, we just have some guys that need to pick it up, because the next of games is going to be tougher than the first 5 games.

Foster, AJ, Barwin, Cody, Smith, JJ and KJ, among others, need to pick it up a notch.
 
Just as a side note... I don't remember Kubiak running end-arounds that much last year or in 2010, when I really started watching the Texans. For all the veterans on the board or the fans who've been fans for longer than I have - are the end-arounds new for Kubiak? Did he use them before 2010 more often? I like the 10 yard pickups we get from Keyshawn on these plays. It's not a play he runs too many times, but... I think Keyshawn is going to be a solid contributor in this offense given more snaps and if he fixes whatever concerns with his hands existed.

Then again, my memory tends to throw in events of its own liking, but the end arounds do seem to be moderately effective.
 
Also... Dwayne Bowe apparently wants out of KC pretty bad. What do you guys think about having him here? Two premier receivers? I think it would force other teams to respect the pass game much more, and open up the run game.
 
htownfan32 said:
Also... Dwayne Bowe apparently wants out of KC pretty bad. What do you guys think about having him here? Two premier receivers? I think it would force other teams to respect the pass game much more, and open up the run game.
Click to expand...

Don't have the cash to get that done. We'll have to make some tough calls again this year I imagine. I think your best hope if you think we need to get another star WR is to invest the draft capital to do it.

I am not in the draft a high round WR because I would rather build the team elsewhere. I think you can get by without all pro WRs.
 
the style of offensive we play anyways we dont need stud WR's we manily focus on TE's and RB and FB
 
76Texan said:
My concern is the line, especially the guard play.
Wade Smith has been a warrior, playing through injuries and such, but his play has been hurting us some.
So did Caldwell's injury.
Ben Jones is playing like a rookie, but a pretty good one, at least a decent one.
Newton has had his bumps, but it looks to me that he has been progressing up to the curve.
It's good to have Harris on board so the OT position seems not to be a weakness.
Click to expand...

In addition to the Play, is the leadership/accountability aspect. I'm speculating, as it MAY be present, but when I speak of accountability, I think of Eric Winston verbally calling out the unit's play. Most of the time something like that hits headlines, the pundits will say that should remain in the locker room, so I'll assume it probably is in this case. But who stands out as that person on the line that holds everyone accountable for their play? And maybe accountable isn't the dead on right word.. For example Cush, is someone who comes to mind on D that helps "charge" the defense. Who's that person on Offense? I don't see it being #8, #80.. Maaaaybe #23? But still, not in 23's nature, so seemingly artificial if true.

Is it legit to expect the offense to need such a factor? I know on defense it would seem apparent.
 
htownfan32 said:
Just as a side note... I don't remember Kubiak running end-arounds that much last year or in 2010, when I really started watching the Texans. For all the veterans on the board or the fans who've been fans for longer than I have - are the end-arounds new for Kubiak? Did he use them before 2010 more often? I like the 10 yard pickups we get from Keyshawn on these plays. It's not a play he runs too many times, but... I think Keyshawn is going to be a solid contributor in this offense given more snaps and if he fixes whatever concerns with his hands existed.

Then again, my memory tends to throw in events of its own liking, but the end arounds do seem to be moderately effective.
Click to expand...

We did that some with Jacoby, but if we're doing it more, it's probably because of Keyshawn's presence.
 
Kthx said:
Texans offense hasn't looked spectacular since Kyle left, I am wondering how much of Kubiaks genius came from Shanny's son when it came to offensive playcalling.
Click to expand...

The reason our offense looked "spectacular" was because we chose to or had to pass more in the past; usually because we were behind in many games.

If you remember, there were people, myself included, who talked about all those yards our QBs got in garbage time some years back.

Last year, when Schaub had the fewest number of attempts per game, his yard per attempt (8.5) was his career high.

So far, our receivers had dropped a few more balls than they normally do.
And then there was that non-called PI that prevented AJ to get a very long catch (I can't remember exactly, but probably about 45-50 yards).

TejasTom said:
Yes, please bring back the half-back pass. :kitten:
Click to expand...

LOL!
 
Trail.Blazr said:
In addition to the Play, is the leadership/accountability aspect. I'm speculating, as it MAY be present, but when I speak of accountability, I think of Eric Winston verbally calling out the unit's play. Most of the time something like that hits headlines, the pundits will say that should remain in the locker room, so I'll assume it probably is in this case. But who stands out as that person on the line that holds everyone accountable for their play? And maybe accountable isn't the dead on right word.. For example Cush, is someone who comes to mind on D that helps "charge" the defense. Who's that person on Offense? I don't see it being #8, #80.. Maaaaybe #23? But still, not in 23's nature, so seemingly artificial if true.

Is it legit to expect the offense to need such a factor? I know on defense it would seem apparent.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know either.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Don't have the cash to get that done. We'll have to make some tough calls again this year I imagine. I think your best hope if you think we need to get another star WR is to invest the draft capital to do it.

I am not in the draft a high round WR because I would rather build the team elsewhere. I think you can get by without all pro WRs.
Click to expand...

Also, a first-round receiver can be a hit-and-miss deal.

Blackmon, Floyd and Jenkins haven't showed up.
How about Baldwin from last year?
D. Thomas hasn't done much for the Broncos.
Neither has Kenny Britt (Titans).

The list goes on:
Ted Ginn (bust), Craig Davis (bust), A. Gonzales, Troy Williamson (#7 pick - bust), Mike Williams (#10 pick = bust), Matt Jones, Roy Williams #7, Reggie Willams #9. Michael Clayton (seriously under-archievers), Michael Jenkins, Rashaun Woods (bust).
 
htownfan32 said:
Also... Dwayne Bowe apparently wants out of KC pretty bad. What do you guys think about having him here? Two premier receivers? I think it would force other teams to respect the pass game much more, and open up the run game.
Click to expand...

Sure it would be nice, but he costs 9 million this year, and 5.8 million is left on his deal for the rest of the season. We simply don't have that capspace to even consider it.
 
forget about plaxico or chad or TO.

this goody boy pre requisite regime will never go for it even though i think they could help this team.

receivers are not the problem on offense. its the erratic idiotic play calling on offense that is killing this team.
 
Norg said:
the style of offensive we play anyways we dont need stud WR's we manily focus on TE's and RB and FB
Click to expand...

I've heard this for years. The question becomes how long can one keep lying to oneself until one expects it to become the truth? I guess the answer depends on how badly one wants that lie to be a truth. And after last week, I guess many want it very badly.
 
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