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On the flip side, it feels like the Kubiak game plan sets up a QB -- almost **any* QB -- for failure, and if Keenum can be an adequate NFL QB I'd rather it be with a new regime, a new start for the team and one that won't leave him the psychological baggage of failing in the Kubiak system.I said it in this thread earlier. Yates is not the answer. There may not be any QB on our roster that's the answer considering the way that all 3 phases played today, but Kubiak has to think about playing Case right now. Just do something!
Indeed. I'm not sure Keenum's skill set is a good fit for Kubiak's "offense".how many long balls thrown today?
i'm not sure either, but i'd like to find out. case holds the clip board the best.Indeed. I'm not sure Keenum's skill set is a good fit for Kubiak's "offense".
Partially, Kubiak's sense of loyalty -- which is a good trait to a point, until it blinds you to changes that NEED to be made. Schaub is his guy, and Yates has been his #2. As long as those two are on the roster, that will probably never change in Kubiak's mind.Can someone tell me why Keenum would not be activated in todays game?
And when case throws his pick 6 on an out right to the TE or AJ, then what?I said it in this thread earlier. Yates is not the answer. There may not be any QB on our roster that's the answer considering the way that all 3 phases played today, but Kubiak has to think about playing Case right now. Just do something!
Pretty sad when your stock goes way up even when you did nothing....This game elevated Keenum's status.
Maybe Case reads defenses better and doesn't try that play regardless of what is called? Maybe Case tucks it and runs for 4 yards or more. Maybe Case scrambles and makes a play....And when case throws his pick 6 on an out right to the TE or AJ, then what?
There's no doubt that a better qb would make us a better team...but as i sit and watch the current steelers, giants, falcons and to a lesser extent packers....teams who have qb's infinitely better than schaub but have other things holding their teams back......i mean how much better are we going to be with the same bum ass head coach?
This teams issues are deeper than just 1 player.
we dont have their other problems.And when case throws his pick 6 on an out right to the TE or AJ, then what?
There's no doubt that a better qb would make us a better team...but as i sit and watch the current steelers, giants, falcons and to a lesser extent packers....teams who have qb's infinitely better than schaub but have other things holding their teams back......i mean how much better are we going to be with the same bum ass head coach?
This teams issues are deeper than just 1 player.
actually case had done something in preseason, practice, and camp. he's just waiting in line.Pretty sad when your stock goes way up even when you did nothing....
At this point you have to realize that the Texans aren't going to the Super Bowl. Realizing that you have to evaluate your roster to make the correct decisions moving forward. If Case comes in and throws up all over himself then the team needs to look for a franchise QB in the upcoming draft. Not that hard to figure out.And when case throws his pick 6 on an out right to the TE or AJ, then what?
There's no doubt that a better qb would make us a better team...but as i sit and watch the current steelers, giants, falcons and to a lesser extent packers....teams who have qb's infinitely better than schaub but have other things holding their teams back......i mean how much better are we going to be with the same bum ass head coach?
This teams issues are deeper than just 1 player...the HC and his system have been exposed and he has absolutely no answer on how to counter.
You're right, you're right...you're right! BUT! Did you notice in the pre-season when they had Case both under center...AND...they worked him a great deal in the spread offense, especially the last pre-season game? It happened.And when case throws his pick 6 on an out right to the TE or AJ, then what?
There's no doubt that a better qb would make us a better team...but as i sit and watch the current steelers, giants, falcons and to a lesser extent packers....teams who have qb's infinitely better than schaub but have other things holding their teams back......i mean how much better are we going to be with the same bum ass head coach?
This teams issues are deeper than just 1 player...the HC and his system have been exposed and he has absolutely no answer on how to counter.
At this point you have to realize that the Texans aren't going to the Super Bowl. Realizing that you have to evaluate your roster to make the correct decisions moving forward. If Case comes in and throws up all over himself then the team needs to look for a franchise QB in the upcoming draft. Not that hard to figure out.
I think it's just about time.You're right, you're right...you're right! BUT! Did you notice in the pre-season when they had Case both under center...AND...they worked him a great deal in the spread offense, especially the last pre-season game? It happened.
That means it's in the playbook. That also means that there is at least some willingness to break from the same ol' same ol'. (At least there is that hope).
Having said that, you don't dip into the Keenum pool too deeply until the season is lost, numbers wise. At 2-4 it's still not.
All 53 players can't be active. I believe only 47 or something. So the third qb usually isn't active.Can someone tell me why Keenum would not be activated in todays game?
actually I think this game moved schaub's status (because it showed TJ threw 2 int) up and kubiak's stock went down.This game elevated Keenum's status.
What if Case comes in and lights it up? Why would you draft a QB in the first round then? You're assuming he'll come in and not play well. That's why you have to see what he has when games actually mean something. Playing him when the Texans are out of contention to me isn't a true evaluation.[/B]
The bolded needs to happen regardless of what case does....
What if Case comes in and lights it up? Why would you draft a QB in the first round then? You're assuming he'll come in and not play well. That's why you have to see what he has when games actually mean something. Playing him when the Texans are out of contention to me isn't a true evaluation.
You're right, you're right...you're right! BUT! Did you notice in the pre-season when they had Case both under center...AND...they worked him a great deal in the spread offense, especially the last pre-season game? It happened.
That means it's in the playbook. That also means that there is at least some willingness to break from the same ol' same ol'. (At least there is that hope).
Having said that, you don't dip into the Keenum pool too deeply until the season is lost, numbers wise. At 2-4 it's still not.
Agreed.if kubiak is going to call plays that are short and mid passes, I don't think case will have a huge problem sticking with this game plan.
True that. By the time Schaub and Yates finish their checkdowns, the open receiver in the flat no longer has much room to run after the catch. Compare the Texans passes in the flat (short of first down yardage) to what the Rams did, or to what other teams have done. Most other teams have a lot more YAC than the Texans do, whose receivers are almost always immediately tackled. This is because the defense is seeing the play develop and has a couple seconds to close on the receiver before the ball is delivered. A decisive QB with a quick release could help that dink-dunk checkdown stuff actually work.Agreed.
If the routes are short then the ball has to go. Yates and Schaub have that second or so of indecision that I just didn't see with Case.
Matt Flynn is a product of a false evaluation. Hell, even Orlovsky beat the Texans when the game didn't mean anything. Its a different ballgame when there is actually pressure on the QB IMO. The Texans aren't a playoff contender. The sooner fans realize that the sooner we can understand that some crucial decisions need to be made moving forward.Well, sure it is! You're still looking to win games! And evaluation is a part of the solution for next year. Because if Case DOES NOT light it up, then you are certainly out of playoff contention. I just don't think I want to go on so may ifs before the bye week.
I think we still have to think logically about this.
Otherwise, another point...all you fukers talking Johnny Manziel, get off that sh!t, because we already have the same player in Keenum...maybe better.
Faster with his fee, but also faster with his release, which makes a big, BIG difference in how the spread is run. There's no way Schaub and/or Yates can run the spread like Case can.We've seen spread formations from gary's playbook....matter fact, some people have said its when schaub has looked his best..but there's a reason for that...it's easier to read defenses in spread formations. But there's also a reason we dont run it them that often or unless we have to......its b/c we cant block anyone consistently, gary's conservative as hell and b/c it leaves your qb vulnerable. And even though Keenum is faster than every qb ahead of him, he's not running away from LB's or even some d-linemen like that....he couldnt do it in college consistently, what makes people think he's gonna be able to do it in the nfl consistently....the system in place will likely put him him the same situation tat Schaub and Yates were in..predictable playcalling and no discipline will do that.
Not if you are the 2011 Colts. You are Sucking for Luck.Well, sure it is! You're still looking to win games!
Watch the games man, most of these ints and pick 6's are coming off 3 step drops by the qb.....meaning there isnt much "reading" that has to be done & the ball is coming out just about as fast as it can. So its not mattering how fast the ball is coming out...teams are sitting on the routes. Hell 3 of the pick 6's have come exclusively off out routes. They know its coming and they are driving hard on them.Agreed.
If the routes are short then the ball has to go. Yates and Schaub have that second or so of indecision that I just didn't see with Case.
Pretty much the same player except I'd argue Case is more protective of the ball. Both 6'1", both 4.7 40' times, spread offense under Sumlin, not sure how people keep saying Keenum isn't the guy when they haven't seen him in a NFL regular season game.Well, sure it is! You're still looking to win games! And evaluation is a part of the solution for next year. Because if Case DOES NOT light it up, then you are certainly out of playoff contention. I just don't think I want to go on so may ifs before the bye week.
I think we still have to think logically about this.
Otherwise, another point...all you fukers talking Johnny Manziel, get off that sh!t, because we already have the same player in Keenum...maybe better.
I am watching the games, 3 step drop and Matt DOES NOT get rid of the ball.Watch the games man, most of these ints and pick 6's are coming off 3 step drops by the qb.....meaning there isnt much "reading" that has to be done & the ball is coming out just about as fast as it can. So its not mattering how fast the ball is coming out...teams are sitting on the routes. Hell3 of the pick 6's have come exclusively off out routes. They know its coming and they are driving hard on them.
I am watching the games, 3 step drop and Matt DOES NOT get rid of the ball.
1
2
3.........deliver.
It can't be like that on short routes.
It has to be
1
2
3. Deliver
Matt does not do this. How can you sit on a 5 yard pass play and INT it UNLESS the QB is hesitating? It's nearly impossible to get that ball if the QB is releasing it on time and zipping it to the WR unless the WRs tips it up into the air himself.
Look at the Bradford TD. He read the defense before throwing it to his WR. He saw Kareem was giving his man a cushion (for whatever reason) and delivered the ball right away to his man for a easy TD. If he hesitates one second Kareem likely realizes what's going on and makes a play on the ball.
Besides the INTs this game were completely on the QB. One throws into double coverage after staring down his man the whole way...the other he just throws right to the guy.
You also sit on it and know it's coming when the QB is staring his man down as if he stole something and then waiting an extra second or two to give him the ball.You ever heard of cover 2? The cb's dont have to cover deep, they have the flats....lb's have the short middle of the field....exactly where we love to send our TE's...thats how u sit on 5 -7 yd routes....apart from that, look how many defenders are in the vicinity on these ints and pick 6's. The pick 6 Yates threw today had 3 guys within striking distance of making a play on that ball....pretty much like schaub's 1st pick in the SEA game. They know its coming and there is zero fear of getting beat deep....partly b/c of schaub's arm, but also b/c of gary and his system/tendencies when calling plays...
Also as a qb you have to wait for the WR to turn their damn heads...we don't exactly have burners out there.
dont help the QB is staring down who he's going to even before the ball is snappedYou ever heard of cover 2? The cb's dont have to cover deep, they have the flats....lb's have the short middle of the field....exactly where we love to send our TE's...thats how u sit on 5 -7 yd routes....apart from that, look how many defenders are in the vicinity on these ints and pick 6's. The pick 6 Yates threw today had 3 guys within striking distance of making a play on that ball....pretty much like schaub's 1st pick in the SEA game. They know its coming and there is zero fear of getting beat deep....partly b/c of schaub's arm, but also b/c of gary and his system/tendencies when calling plays...
Also as a qb you have to wait for the WR to turn their damn heads...we don't exactly have burners out there.
Its a 3 step drop.......those 8 out of 10 times are 1 read plays....if its there fire it in there....if not you have no choice but to throw it away b/c there's no time to go anywhere else. as a qb, If you try to look off the defense in those situations, you run the risk of just making blind throws....not good.dont help the QB is staring down who he's going to even before the ball is snapped
Seen many manning 3 step drops where he looks off coverage, same with rogersIts a 3 step drop.......those 8 out of 10 times are 1 read plays....if its there fire it in there....if not you have no choice but to throw it away b/c there's no time to go anywhere else. as a qb, If you try to look off the defense in those situations, you run the risk of just making blind throws....not good.
I say all that to say its nearly impossible notto stare down your only read on such quick plays. Every single qb in the league does that on those type of throws...
The difference with us versus other offenses....besides the obvious that is....is that teams arent sitting on their 3 step drop stuff like they're doing us...
Kubiak literally turned Matt Schaub into David Carr in the first half. Lots of completions, very little challenge to any of it, no results to speak of.if kubiak is going to call plays that are short and mid passes, I don't think case will have a huge problem sticking with this game plan.
Lol, manning is probably the most NOTORIOUS for staring down his WR's on 3 step drop passes....see the AFC championship game from 07 when samuels pick 6'ed him....hell, see the SB when tracy porter picked him...that wasnt a 3 step drop i believe, but illustrates what im talking about when db's sit on stuff.Seen many manning 3 step drops where he looks off coverage, same with rogers
Well here is the thing...just throwing it away would have made us 3-3 right now at the very least. Had Matt just threw that one away in the Seattle game I am confident we get out of there with a win.Its a 3 step drop.......those 8 out of 10 times are 1 read plays....if its there fire it in there....if not you have no choice but to throw it away b/c there's no time to go anywhere else. as a qb, If you try to look off the defense in those situations, you run the risk of just making blind throws....not good.
Gee, it's a good thing Kubiak is the world's greatest QB coach or our QBs would really suck.Well here is the thing...just throwing it away would have made us 3-3 right now at the very least. Had Matt just threw that one away in the Seattle game I am confident we get out of there with a win.
I think we are making too many excuses for TERRIBLE QB play. I'm sure Kubiak had it designed on Graham getting the TD there but I think Kubiak knows that if it's not there then the QB has to make the decision on himself. The QB HAS to make a play for himself.
Our QBs do not do this. They do not scramble out of the pocket to make a play, pump fake a defender, look off a defender, generally just make the play that isn't there on occasion.
Basically everything has to go right for our 1st and 2nd string QB to succeed. Maybe Keenum would fail too, but we don't know.
We have no idea of knowing if he stares down Graham the entire way before throwing it...or he just throws it away...or heck tries to run it in himself.
Not making excuses for the qb play...its been bad. But lets be real here. In kubiak's system we've seen:Well here is the thing...just throwing it away would have made us 3-3 right now at the very least. Had Matt just threw that one away in the Seattle game I am confident we get out of there with a win.
I think we are making too many excuses for TERRIBLE QB play. I'm sure Kubiak had it designed on Graham getting the TD there but I think Kubiak knows that if it's not there then the QB has to make the decision on himself. The QB HAS to make a play for himself.
Our QBs do not do this. They do not scramble out of the pocket to make a play, pump fake a defender, look off a defender, generally just make the play that isn't there on occasion.
Basically everything has to go right for our 1st and 2nd string QB to succeed. Maybe Keenum would fail too, but we don't know.
We have no idea of knowing if he stares down Graham the entire way before throwing it...or he just throws it away...or heck tries to run it in himself.
Well those other guys were already failed QBs before Kubiak touched them.Not making excuses for the qb play...its been bad. But lets be real here. In kubiak's system we've seen:
Carr
Rosenfels
Lienart
Schaub
Yates
That's 5 different qb's. We didn't see much of Carr and Lienart but i think we've seen enough from the other 3. For the most, they all have looked about the same. At what point do you start to think that just maybe the qbs play just how they're being coached to play in this system and that bringing in another qb might likely yield the same results as the 5 before him?
If you're implying that the Texans should be looking for another coach, that coach will want to bring in his own QB.At what point do you start to think that just maybe the qbs play just how they're being coached to play in this system and that bringing in another qb might likely yield the same results as the 5 before him?
This is ultimately what needs to happen for there to be any real change. You need a new coach with a new philosophy who will ultimately bring his own guy in.If you're implying that the Texans should be looking for another coach, that coach will want to bring in his own QB.
Can't really argue with any of that.This is ultimately what needs to happen for there to be any real change. You need a new coach with a new philosophy who will ultimately bring his own guy in.
I don't trust kubiak to get this team turned around
I dont believe kubiak will change his tendencies
& i definitely dont want him to have anything to do with bringing in the next qb of this team
I have said over the past few years that I never believed Kubiak was going to be the guy who leads us to the Super Bowl. He's a guy who righted the ship and I'm thankful for that. But he's overstayed his welcome and I blame McNair for that. It's time to cut ties with Kubiak as soon as possible and go after someone who's a leader of men. Some of these players need to go too. The problem with Kubiak's system is that it makes average players look good and doesn't allow for talent to flourish. A prime example of each scenario is Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson. Schaub is an above average QB, but he had a couple of years where he was comparable to the likes of Brees, Manning, Rodgers, and Brady. But I don't think he would've put up the kind of numbers he did if he was somewhere else. On the other hand you have AJ who imo is misused in this offense. It's embarrassing that he has no TD receptions this year and has not scored a lot in his career. We have to get someone in here who will lead first and foremost, adapt to the new NFL, and let talent flourish.This is ultimately what needs to happen for there to be any real change. You need a new coach with a new philosophy who will ultimately bring his own guy in.
I don't trust kubiak to get this team turned around
I dont believe kubiak will change his tendencies
& i definitely dont want him to have anything to do with bringing in the next qb of this team
I have said over the past few years that I never believed Kubiak was going to be the guy who leads us to the Super Bowl. He's a guy who righted the ship and I'm thankful for that. But he's overstayed his welcome and I blame McNair for that. It's time to cut ties with Kubiak as soon as possible and go after someone who's a leader of men. Some of these players need to go too. The problem with Kubiak's system is that it makes average players look good and doesn't allow for talent to flourish. A prime example of each scenario is Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson. Schaub is an above average QB, but he had a couple of years where he was comparable to the likes of Brees, Manning, Rodgers, and Brady. But I don't think he would've put up the kind of numbers he did if he was somewhere else. On the other hand you have AJ who imo is misused in this offense. It's embarrassing that he has no TD receptions this year and has not scored a lot in his career. We have to get someone in here who will lead first and foremost, adapt to the new NFL, and let talent flourish.