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"I want 'Texans' on my chest" ~ Vince Young
- Thread starter Tale Gator
- Start date
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
Jerek-Drama-Tulexan-MorKnolle
Just like when a team fires a Defensive minded HC to acquire an Offensive minded HC. Teams will shy away from a scramblin' QB if they already have had one and go for the pocket passer with a hint of escapability and vice-versa. Kinda like how the Saints seem to want Leinert since they already gave the scramblin' QB a try.
You guys are hilarious when ya'll get together. Ya'll remind of the texans scouts who have hand-cuffed this team yet try to cover up the mistakes made by buying Carr more time. Oh...Kubes will fix everything, hope so but he's new to his position and so is most of his staff. On top of that they're all working together for the 1st time (most of them at least). Can you say 4-12 in year 1.
All bush does for this team is put a band-aide on a gash that needs stitches as well as immediate medical attention. You wanna be an 8-8 team in 3 years then take bush. Then after that then what kinda contract do you give carr. Something equilivent to any QB that had his starting job for 7 years and no playoff appearances. Wanna be in the playoffs in 2 years then take young.
Speaking of Carr and his contract, why haven't they offered the option yet. I'm sure they're picking it up but why the wait. Soaking up the news spotlight. I thought this was the week. Or are they waiting for the wkend so the local radio shows won't get ahold of it until Mon.?? And if they are so sold on him then why not trash the first contract, forget about the option and write up a new one to the tune of 5-6 years for $80 mill. That's similar to most QB's get when given an extension.
And all this "some will argue" crap ya'll keep drumming up, we'll what do you expect, some will argue the opposite opinion.
And no MoreKnolle, I don't want to hear what your supposed friend/scout/draft evaluator/whatever has to say. When you leave a name or exact position or e-mail address then we don't want to hear about it
Drama-
I've gotta run but I'll find you later and try to get you to cross-over to the Vince side. Bush is awesome though. I sent some clips to some friends of the 2 of them and re-watched the ones of bush and was re-blown away. We need a QB though more than anything, O-line 2nd, DE 3rd, TE 4th, and then we maybe a scat back type of RB. I'll holla @ ya L8R.
Just like when a team fires a Defensive minded HC to acquire an Offensive minded HC. Teams will shy away from a scramblin' QB if they already have had one and go for the pocket passer with a hint of escapability and vice-versa. Kinda like how the Saints seem to want Leinert since they already gave the scramblin' QB a try.
You guys are hilarious when ya'll get together. Ya'll remind of the texans scouts who have hand-cuffed this team yet try to cover up the mistakes made by buying Carr more time. Oh...Kubes will fix everything, hope so but he's new to his position and so is most of his staff. On top of that they're all working together for the 1st time (most of them at least). Can you say 4-12 in year 1.
All bush does for this team is put a band-aide on a gash that needs stitches as well as immediate medical attention. You wanna be an 8-8 team in 3 years then take bush. Then after that then what kinda contract do you give carr. Something equilivent to any QB that had his starting job for 7 years and no playoff appearances. Wanna be in the playoffs in 2 years then take young.
Speaking of Carr and his contract, why haven't they offered the option yet. I'm sure they're picking it up but why the wait. Soaking up the news spotlight. I thought this was the week. Or are they waiting for the wkend so the local radio shows won't get ahold of it until Mon.?? And if they are so sold on him then why not trash the first contract, forget about the option and write up a new one to the tune of 5-6 years for $80 mill. That's similar to most QB's get when given an extension.
And all this "some will argue" crap ya'll keep drumming up, we'll what do you expect, some will argue the opposite opinion.
And no MoreKnolle, I don't want to hear what your supposed friend/scout/draft evaluator/whatever has to say. When you leave a name or exact position or e-mail address then we don't want to hear about it
Drama-
I've gotta run but I'll find you later and try to get you to cross-over to the Vince side. Bush is awesome though. I sent some clips to some friends of the 2 of them and re-watched the ones of bush and was re-blown away. We need a QB though more than anything, O-line 2nd, DE 3rd, TE 4th, and then we maybe a scat back type of RB. I'll holla @ ya L8R.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Big B Texan Fan said:
You have more trouble on your hands than Jerek, Drama, Tulexan and Mork. I found at least three misspelled y'alls in there and that means you will have to answer to Your Y'allness, Infantrycak.
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
Draft Vince Young and run the single wing, per woody.
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
This is how bad this is getting:chuckm said:
I realized that I did leave you out while I was away from the computer. Pretty sad huh.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
Big B Texan Fan said:
I'm sorry ... I'm confused. This has what to do with anything? Are you purporting that the Texans will shy away from a scrambling QB, because Carr is a scrambling QB? Please explain, if you were indeed trying to make a point (though I doubt it.)
Big B Texan Fan said:
Still waiting for something besides pure counter-conjecture ... So our assertion (a feeling that goes far beyond this little circle that you have clumped us into) that Kubiak will do big things for this team is meaningless, but your equally unproven assertion that Vince is The Answer with a capital A is suddenly valid because ... why again?
Big B Texan Fan said:
Still waiting ... Cute word picture, but if you want to use an analogy, you ought to do something in the way of providing an explanation. Do you have a crystal ball, some kind of complex mathematical formula, or at least a clean porcelain toilet that you are pulling these stunning statistical predictions from?
Big B Texan Fan said:
I'm sorry, still waiting for something relevant ... So they haven't announced Carr's resigning, they have time. Maybe they are redoing the deal, maybe they are letting him go, and who knows, maybe we will draft Vince and you will win yourself fifty dollars. Then again, why are you speaking in absolutes, it's still CONJECTURE.
Big B Texan Fan said:
I spent the better part of five paragraphs' reading trying to find your answer to my question. Alas, I did not. So, I repeat:
If this draft is really about fixing the QB position, then
Why haven't we heard a word on this entire board about drafting any other QB besides Vince Young, when it is widely and accurately reported that many scouting departments feel Leinart is as good as if not better than, and more NFL-ready than Young?
Leinart won the Heisman and the National Championship last year. He put together a pretty damned good year this year too, and his team came up a whole three points shy of beating your hero's team. Would think that deserves at least a little mention, don't you?
Or is it because David Carr makes a great scapegoat, and too conveniently, happens to play the position that you would give anything to see your newfound Longhorn hero playing for us this fall?
Hmmmm
its pretty obvious why we wouldnt draft Leinart... He's a less mobile, weaker armed version of Carr. The thing about Young that is so appealing is his ability to make plays with his legs.
Leinart needs an established team with good skill players to succeed, Young not so much.
A bad o-line makes a fantastic running qb more attractive than a slow-footed protypical pocket passer.
come on, its common sense... it would be like the falcons drafting marcus vick, or the ravens drafting jay cutler...
Leinart needs an established team with good skill players to succeed, Young not so much.
A bad o-line makes a fantastic running qb more attractive than a slow-footed protypical pocket passer.
come on, its common sense... it would be like the falcons drafting marcus vick, or the ravens drafting jay cutler...
Coach C.
Veteran
The battle raging between Jerek, Tulexan, Mork and the VY supporters is completely hilarious. I personally dont want VY cause he is not a good fit for our team. Dont want Reggie Bush because we have a capable back that just needs less carries. I want Mario Williams the best defensive player in the draft and an absolute Monster on the line. Now we can easily go into each players strengths, weaknesses, or the much loved "it" factor, but doesn't boil down to the fact that VY supporters will support him regardless, Bush supporters the same, and trade down people will look at the whole of the team in an objective manner. I must say the next 3months of this is gonna get really good before it dies off.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
stevo3883 said:
Funny, listening to all the Vince Young supporters describe Carr's faults (and yes he does have some) it seems like a more NFL ready QB like Leinart would be able to step right in and will show us all how really the OL isn't so bad, a good QB would make due and get the ball out quickly, using all of the WR's and the schemes were fine but Carr was just unable to make any of it work. Odd also how VY folks run headlong from any comparison to Vick if that is what makes Young sooo appealing.
infantrycak said:
well if they want to say Carr sucks, more power to them. I think hes alright, not great but not bad.
But its pretty obvious, at least to me, that Leinart wouldnt be able to do any better. and whats more, Leinart gets rattled easily and causes him to make mistakes- ie not good with a crap oline.
I was just telling Jerek why Leinart isnt considered as qb for us but VY is, and you go off on some wild tangent about people that hate carr.
recently it seems that the anti-vince people are just overly hostile and jump down anyones throat for no reason at all. All I ever see is complaints about people than want vince, rarely do these people even post threads anymore... its ridiculous that yall address people that arent even here.
Nighthawk
Rookie
jerek said:
Not asking entry into this debate, I nevertheless must take exception to your purported "most telling thing" about the Young/Bush/Carr debate.
There's a simple reason Leinart isn't on anyone's radar--he's not a hero. Instead, he's a routine NFL QB, run of the mill, sort of like Carr, maybe better, maybe worse, but not head and shoulders above Carr in the way Vince Young seems as if he will be.
That's why Leinart, and Cutler, for that matter, don't figure in the discussion.
And please stop using the tired-*** "majority of NFL scouts blah blah" argument. The majority of NFL scouts are followers of each other who echo the standard party line about every player. So there's talk about Bush being the best since Gale Sayers and suddenly ALL THE SCOUTS say he's the best since Gale Sayers.
Scouts are middle-management types, mostly, lemmings, ready to go off the cliff.
The reason there's such a hue and cry for Vince Young is that many people (and it doesn't have anything to do with UT, please) think that he's going to light up the NFL in a way that nobody's lit it up for years. He's the anti-parity QB, is the thought, he's Big Ben with really good wheels. He's Vick with size, the same speed, more power, and much better passing accuracy. He's Brett Favre in the win-it-any-way-you-can department.
And a lot more. I'm not certain (nobody is) that Vince Young will pay off as big as all that, but I AM CERTAIN that there is a reasonably good chance that he will. The downside seems VERY shallow. Even if he doesn't live up to the hype, the LEAST HE'LL TURN OUT TO BE is a serviceable NFL QB, and at that he'll be well ahead of David Carr.
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
Jerek-
Nice dissection of my post.....NOT
Look, read between the lines and figure a few things out. The post dissection gets old. All your "uh, I don't get it" and "counter conjuncture" crap is for the classroom or the courtroom, not a MB where opinions are like (_______).
My comparison to the coaches switching was my equivilent to why noone in the VY corner is bringin' up Leinert. We already have a pocket passer, Carr has scramblin' ability but he's was not classified as a scramblin' QB when he came to the NFL. He has some wheels yet is is usually too late or too early when he decides to go. Kinda like not knowing how to drive. No pun intended.
And the bet, You or I won't just win $50. We have to leave the MB's. We never clarified for how long though. Forever? A season? What are ya thinkin'?
Please don't compare Young to Vick guys (infantrycak). That is like comparing Brad Johnson to Montana. One is good, while the other is great.
Sidebar-Did anyone hear about the rocket trade for bogut. He's injured!! I didn't know Casserly was giving trade advice to the rockets. Oh wait a minute, there's no validity to that accusation.....sorry jerek, will the MB faithful please strike that from the record, NFL (No Fun League).
Nice dissection of my post.....NOT
Look, read between the lines and figure a few things out. The post dissection gets old. All your "uh, I don't get it" and "counter conjuncture" crap is for the classroom or the courtroom, not a MB where opinions are like (_______).
My comparison to the coaches switching was my equivilent to why noone in the VY corner is bringin' up Leinert. We already have a pocket passer, Carr has scramblin' ability but he's was not classified as a scramblin' QB when he came to the NFL. He has some wheels yet is is usually too late or too early when he decides to go. Kinda like not knowing how to drive. No pun intended.
And the bet, You or I won't just win $50. We have to leave the MB's. We never clarified for how long though. Forever? A season? What are ya thinkin'?
Please don't compare Young to Vick guys (infantrycak). That is like comparing Brad Johnson to Montana. One is good, while the other is great.
Sidebar-Did anyone hear about the rocket trade for bogut. He's injured!! I didn't know Casserly was giving trade advice to the rockets. Oh wait a minute, there's no validity to that accusation.....sorry jerek, will the MB faithful please strike that from the record, NFL (No Fun League).
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
stevo3883 said:
No what is going on recently is some folks have picked Bush as their favorite, others Young. For some reason many but not all Vince Young supporters feel the need to exagerate Carr's problems. On the flip side, many but not all Bush supporters feel the need to exagerate Young's potential problems. Now both sides in this unnecessary little tango are trying to pull martyr acts--help, help, I am being oppressed.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
See Exhibit A
Big B Texan Fan said:
And the hyperbole just keeps on flowing.
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
It's only because of what the Team has said lately, thats allinfantrycak said:
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
My bad, I realized it after I submitted that I psuedo compared VY to a current nfl great. Sorry guys.infantrycak said:
michaelm
vox nihili
Coach C. said:
Coach, I don't think I've ever responded to any of your posts, but I do think that yours tend to be objective and reasonable.
I do disagree with this statement as an absolute, however.
I think by definition the trade down group is more likely to be objective, but I'm sure there are quite a few people that are not.
For the most part, these people(the unobjective ones) may not be text book trade down people as much as anti both VY and RB.
Then there may those that are really just DBrick people, and trading down is a means to an end.
I'm sure that I'm splitting hairs here, but I just can't wrap my mind around the concept that any one faction on this MB is completely objective... or capable(as a whole) of looking at the team in a 100% objective manner.
AustinJB
Rookie
jerek said:If this draft is really about fixing the QB position, then
Why haven't we heard a word on this entire board about drafting any other QB besides Vince Young, when it is widely and accurately reported that many scouting departments feel Leinart is as good as if not better than, and more NFL-ready than Young?
Leinart won the Heisman and the National Championship last year. He put together a pretty damned good year this year too, and his team came up a whole three points shy of beating your hero's team. Would think that deserves at least a little mention, don't you?
Or is it because David Carr makes a great scapegoat, and too conveniently, happens to play the position that you would give anything to see your newfound Longhorn hero playing for us this fall?
Hmmmm
Hmmmmmmmmmmm...you always seem to ignore posts that actually give reasons why people feel the way they do. Who CARES what is widely reported by many scouting reports, etc. Ever thought that maybe people form an opinion on their own.
I also love how you like to use awards and accomplishments (Leinart won Heisman and NC last yr) to try to make your points. But if someone else uses VY's accomplishments as a valid reason of why they like him, you discount it b/c "that doesn't translate to the NFL.":brickwall Give me a break! That seems a little hypocritical to me
You seemed to ignore my previous post about why I'm not overly impressed w/ Leinart. I seem to think he's a product of the system and, quite frankly, think he'll be an average NFL QB. I've seen him make plenty of inaccurate throws, but VY is the one that gets bashed for being inaccurate. Both of their comp% were comparable. Does this mean that they are both inaccurate passers <OR> that they are both accurate passers? You can't have it both ways.
Judging by the level of competition that each faced, I tend to be far more impressed w/ VY's numbers than w/ Leinart's (and that's not even taking into account that VY has wheels.) Also, Leinart does not show the poise that VY does. When Leinart was pressured, he became inaccurate. Not VY...he just made the defense pay....either by throwing the ball or by scrambling for a first down. That would be the same no matter where VY calls home.
TreWardTxn
Waterboy
bigTEXan8 said:
If any other player (mostly QB tho) had participated in a high school game which gained mythical status and went on to win the National Championship (at a major program), in legendary fashion I think this board would light up with request to get the guy. Oh, it might help if the guy had a skill set and accomplishments at his position that had never before been witnessed in history and it would also be a good thing for his own college coach to admit that he had very little to do with the success and the best decision he ever made was to get out of said player's way and let him lead (or somethin in the way of that).
The question should be, how do you not clamor to have a player like that on your favorite team? The answer? So that you don't seem like a bandwaggoner. Believe me, I completly understand; I root for the underdog, I despised all the NFL dynasties of the last 20 years (Niners, Cowboys, Patriots). I don't even like QBs all that much, because except for a select few, they have all been overblown out of proportion...That said, I have come realize how great those NFL dynasties were and their players too, no matter how lucky I thought they are/were (Emmitt, Brady), and I honestly believe that, with time, we will come to appreciate the QB's great ability for what it is, and hopefully, not have to regret that we were unable to truly enjoy it...
AustinJB
Rookie
AustinJB said:And I do think that VY is the best QB in this draft. I've never really been impressed w/ Leinart. I've seen Leinart make just as many bad passes, if not more, than VY. VY gets a bad rep just b/c of his side-arm motion and the fact that he has better wheels than Leinart.
The top five PASS DEFENSES that Leinart faced (not counting the Rose Bowl) are ranked like this: 31st, 45th, 68th, 72nd, and 77th.
VY's are ranked as: 15th, 23rd, 43rd, 53rd, and 56th.
Against TOTAL DEFENSE rank, it goes like this.....
Leinart: 34th, 38th, 44th, 46th, and 75th
VY: 5th, 11th, 13th, 30th, and 41st
Based upon their numbers and the level of competition they faced, I think VY is better. If you don't, that is fine, but I have the stats to back up my belief.
Jerek.....Maybe this is why people aren't mentioning Leinart instead of VY.
travfrancis
Waterboy
yeah you are pretty funny... or atleast your cute little equation in your signature is.
let me ask you this, what happens if Carr's leadership is a decimal? that would make vy > carr according to you equation.
VY's talent and leadership = 1 / DC's talent and leadership
1/.5 = 2
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
AustinJB said:Hmmmmmmmmmmm...you always seem to ignore posts that actually give reasons why people feel the way they do. Who CARES what is widely reported by many scouting reports, etc. Ever thought that maybe people form an opinion on their own.
I also love how you like to use awards and accomplishments (Leinart won Heisman and NC last yr) to try to make your points. But if someone else uses VY's accomplishments as a valid reason of why they like him, you discount it b/c "that doesn't translate to the NFL.":brickwall Give me a break! That seems a little hypocritical to me
You seemed to ignore my previous post about why I'm not overly impressed w/ Leinart. I seem to think he's a product of the system and, quite frankly, think he'll be an average NFL QB. I've seen him make plenty of inaccurate throws, but VY is the one that gets bashed for being inaccurate. Both of their comp% were comparable. Does this mean that they are both inaccurate passers <OR> that they are both accurate passers? You can't have it both ways.
Judging by the level of competition that each faced, I tend to be far more impressed w/ VY's numbers than w/ Leinart's (and that's not even taking into account that VY has wheels.) Also, Leinart does not show the poise that VY does. When Leinart was pressured, he became inaccurate. Not VY...he just made the defense pay....either by throwing the ball or by scrambling for a first down. That would be the same no matter where VY calls home.
I am running out of time for this, but Austin, you seem like you are trying, so maybe I can help.
Hypocritical? No. I'm not the one saying draft a QB. The draft-Vince crowd were very few and far between until he won the Rose Bowl, and a big part of that is the fact that he won the game, as you see reflected in countless lines of rhetoric like: "Vince is a winner," "Vince is a champion," bla bla. Leinart was last year's champion and last year's Heisman winner, and yet his name doesn't show up anywhere on this board. He put together a very solid senior season against reasonably like competition, and his team came up a whole steenkin three points shy of beating Vince's in the championship.
Taken as a whole, their college careers were very comparable, so if you believe Vince is somehow head and shoulders above Leinart, that is your right to believe it, but I don't. At least, unlike many others, you have provided a statistical measure to back your assertion.
I am not sure where you are getting these rankings or what you are basing them on. They seem vague. Regardless, I am going to assume that they are some correct measure of statistical worth, and to that I say, that is fine, even if Vince was the better QB by these numbers, he was not dominatingly the best QB.
Moving along, since objectivity is a lost art around these parts, I point to the majority/plethora of scouts, analysts, etc. who claim that Leinart is the best QB at this moment in time. Not good enough for guys like Big B Texan, who effectively calls them all *****s but who will himself happily parrot the words of someone - anyone - outside of this board who makes a case (or more often, a quote taken out of context) in favor of drafting Young, and he and his Young bretheren slurp down every word.
And Big B, if my words are too "English class like" for you, I can dumb it down for you in the future. I'll leave it at that before I get banned. Try to write something with some substance, so guys like AustinJB who take a minute to research a post don't misinterpret my words as lumping them in with the ranters on this board.
And I dissect your posts in an attempt to demonstrate them for the train wreck of logic that they are ... seems to communicate more in the way of a point than "I'm right, you're wrong" mudflinging.
Another thing about these "Experts"
Ryan Leaf, Drew Brees, Joey Harrington(there really is a big list...)
Tom Brady, Jake Delhomme, Ben Rothlisberger, Kurt Warner... this list goes on, and on, and on, and on...
What really get's me, about all the Kool-aid drinkers, is that every body else get's the blame. The line, has no talent........... not one undrafted player on the line.... The recievers can't catch...... the OL coach doesn't have a clue, Capers doesn't have a clue... etc... etc... etc... lots of blame to go around, but one guy seems spotless......
You know, sometimes you've got to wonder why the O was dumbed down... Why Carr was only given one option, Why Carr was on a short leash..... Maybe Capers knew something we don't......
I always thought it was odd, that Capers wouldn't let Carr air it out, knowing it would save his job.
Ryan Leaf, Drew Brees, Joey Harrington(there really is a big list...)
Tom Brady, Jake Delhomme, Ben Rothlisberger, Kurt Warner... this list goes on, and on, and on, and on...
What really get's me, about all the Kool-aid drinkers, is that every body else get's the blame. The line, has no talent........... not one undrafted player on the line.... The recievers can't catch...... the OL coach doesn't have a clue, Capers doesn't have a clue... etc... etc... etc... lots of blame to go around, but one guy seems spotless......
You know, sometimes you've got to wonder why the O was dumbed down... Why Carr was only given one option, Why Carr was on a short leash..... Maybe Capers knew something we don't......
I always thought it was odd, that Capers wouldn't let Carr air it out, knowing it would save his job.
jerek said:
If the Texans.... I mean if Texas would've lost that game, Vince would've gone back to college, and his fan base.... his legend would've grown. You think this Reggie talk all year was bad, it would've been worse. People would still consider Vince the real Heisman Winner. Next year, we'd be 3-13, or 13-3, still, either way, we'd be saying........... Dang...... if only he came out last year.
Personally, I was hoping Vince would make himself eligible for this draft, when you guys were screaming Reggie Bowl.
To me, David Carr is the perfect Quarterback for the Texans. Just like Quincy was perfect for the Cowboys. Talented, mobile, and exciting enough, to keep the fans interested, and happy..... that is until that special QB comes along, and we don't have to give up an arm and a leg to get him. Well, that QB is Vince... Matt's good, but he ain't no Peyton........ not even close, I don't care how NFL ready he is.
Vince, is McNabb, Montana, Bret Favre all rolled into one.
Now, I know some of you hate when we project what we think Vince is going to do in the NFL....... especially, when we say it like it's a fore gone conclussion........
so I'll say it again.
Vince iis McNabb, Montana, & Bret Favre all rolled into one.
AustinJB
Rookie
jerek said:
I know that you weren't necessarily doubting my statistics,
but I wanted to give you a link just so you or anyone else can see for themselves if ya'll want to. http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?div=4&site=org
It's not only these statistics that make me think VY was dominatingly the best QB. It's more so what I witnessed every time he took the field. The majority of the time he was outstanding and dominated the game one way or another.
He dominated in different ways. It wasn't only the games like Colorado where he went 25 of 29 for 335 yds for 2 TDs; it wasn't only the games like Oklahoma St. were he had 506 total yds for 4 TD; it was also the games like OU and TxTech were he managed the game and put his teammates in position to make plays. Not to mention the much-aligned leadership qualities that gave the team complete confidence and the "we-can't-lose" attitude. These are the reasons I feel like VY is the best QB.
However, these views are objective and MO.....so I try to give stats to show what I already feel like I know. The stats are also in response to one of the main arguments that I always hear about VY ("he played against weak pass defenses.") When in reality, between the two, Leinart was the one who played against the weaker pass defenses. Not to mention that Leinart wasn't the main focus for opposing defenses....Bush was. VY was the main focus for every opposing defense he faced including USC (which was supposedly a good defense until VY ripped it apart....ESPN claimed for weeks that they weren't good statisticly but led the nation in turnovers.)
Anyway, IMO he was the best QB. I would love for VY to be the Texans QB. He brings so much to the table. His attitude and confidence are something that we are lacking. Not to mention that I know he would work his @$$ off to improve in any way that the coaching deemed necessary. I would NEVER hope that Leinart is my QB. I'd rather have Carr (and that's not saying much at this point.)
Iceman
Practice Squad
Texans should just resign Jonathan Wells at RB, draft Vince and make him a WR opposite Andre Johnson. It's a thought..........
In all honesty, I don't think Kubiak can go wrong with either guy and both bring certain things to the table for our Texans. Reggie makes alot of sense due to the wear and tear on Dom Davis' knees. He's already started a trend by missing games in the past 2 seasons. That has to be raising a flag somewhere in the organization. It is with me.
The thing with me about Vince is his speed and play making abilities. Will his speed work in the NFL? There is tons of speed on every team but will Vince's be any different from the next speedster? He's a playmaker, no doubt, but he won't be eluding tackles like he did in the Championship game. USC just couldn't tackle him. Putting him at WR opposite AJ looks to be a viable option...........he just won't touch the ball as much as DC.
In all honesty, I don't think Kubiak can go wrong with either guy and both bring certain things to the table for our Texans. Reggie makes alot of sense due to the wear and tear on Dom Davis' knees. He's already started a trend by missing games in the past 2 seasons. That has to be raising a flag somewhere in the organization. It is with me.
The thing with me about Vince is his speed and play making abilities. Will his speed work in the NFL? There is tons of speed on every team but will Vince's be any different from the next speedster? He's a playmaker, no doubt, but he won't be eluding tackles like he did in the Championship game. USC just couldn't tackle him. Putting him at WR opposite AJ looks to be a viable option...........he just won't touch the ball as much as DC.
texarg said:
if you use the trigonomic function to extract the cosine of the square root of those numbers, mutliplied by each players carrer points, wins, and completion percentage..... it will equal #1 overall.
i did it, and the answer was : never take a QB with the first!...ok i dont like mathematics and maybe its not the correct answer...
but all i say is what stadistics shows : "only" elway and aikman formers QBs picks "1" won a SB...neither montana (#82), favre (#33) or even brady (# 199 overall!!!) was top prospect in their drafts and have GREATS carrers.
if VY became a Texans would be great, he is a great player (no doubt), but its a huge risk take a QB with nr. 1, give him a huge contract and...and we already know whats happens, DC was former nr. 1 , top prospect bla bla bla...and here we are again: with the 1st = the worst team in the league.
We allready have a decent Qb, build something good around him a make a "winner team" not just a winner Qb.
but all i say is what stadistics shows : "only" elway and aikman formers QBs picks "1" won a SB...neither montana (#82), favre (#33) or even brady (# 199 overall!!!) was top prospect in their drafts and have GREATS carrers.
if VY became a Texans would be great, he is a great player (no doubt), but its a huge risk take a QB with nr. 1, give him a huge contract and...and we already know whats happens, DC was former nr. 1 , top prospect bla bla bla...and here we are again: with the 1st = the worst team in the league.
We allready have a decent Qb, build something good around him a make a "winner team" not just a winner Qb.
texarg said:
As long as your idea doesn't include drafting Bush, I'm with you.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
AustinJB said:I know that you weren't necessarily doubting my statistics,
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?div=4&site=org
It's not only these statistics that make me think VY was dominatingly the best QB. It's more so what I witnessed every time he took the field. The majority of the time he was outstanding and dominated the game one way or another.
He dominated in different ways. It wasn't only the games like Colorado where he went 25 of 29 for 335 yds for 2 TDs; it wasn't only the games like Oklahoma St. were he had 506 total yds for 4 TD; it was also the games like OU and TxTech were he managed the game and put his teammates in position to make plays. Not to mention the much-aligned leadership qualities that gave the team complete confidence and the "we-can't-lose" attitude. These are the reasons I feel like VY is the best QB.
However, these views are objective and MO.....so I try to give stats to show what I already feel like I know. The stats are also in response to one of the main arguments that I always hear about VY ("he played against weak pass defenses.") When in reality, between the two, Leinart was the one who played against the weaker pass defenses. Not to mention that Leinart wasn't the main focus for opposing defenses....Bush was. VY was the main focus for every opposing defense he faced including USC (which was supposedly a good defense until VY ripped it apart....ESPN claimed for weeks that they weren't good statisticly but led the nation in turnovers.)
Anyway, IMO he was the best QB. I would love for VY to be the Texans QB. He brings so much to the table. His attitude and confidence are something that we are lacking. Not to mention that I know he would work his @$$ off to improve in any way that the coaching deemed necessary. I would NEVER hope that Leinart is my QB. I'd rather have Carr (and that's not saying much at this point.)
I appreciate that, and this is the thing. If, say, Brad Banks was our starting QB, I would say, bring on Vince. Hot damn, we scored the #1 pick and Vince is coming out: he may not be "NFL ready" and he may take a year or even two to really get in the game, but here is a guy with talent and apparently a work ethic to spare, got the hometown story to boot, and we can grab him in this year's draft. Sure, he built his highlight reels against weak college competition, sure we don't know how he'll adapt to the pro game, but come on, our starter is terrible, and we can get Vince! I would be all about it.
My trouble is, I still feel DC is a good quarterback, I would daresay can be a better NFL quarterback than Vince. I watch the guy's games (all of them) and honestly feel that he has got it in him to take this franchise a long way. If others don't share that opinion (and that is, unfortunately, what it boils down to: a lot of opinion, albeit built on certain facts, but still opinion, at this point). We are bringing on Kubiak, we have an exciting offseason with a lot of opportunity for building to look forward to, and we still have Carr, who has, for occassional lack of production, shown us a lot of promise (I know, nothing you haven't heard before.)
Worse, we either cut him and completely lose out on that, or we re-sign him and, if we trade him, we piss away all of that bonus money and get a whole lot of not much for trading a guy who is still regarded more or less as a fourth-year rookie.
So that of course yields the ultimate question: does Carr's potential make him worth retaining, worth using this year's first round to build around him, or do we cut him and very much essentially "start over?" Say what you want about Vince, but you do not want to throw this guy into his very first NFL game as a starter, and you and everyone else on this board knows this. Even if you take the view that Carr will only be an average QB at best, plenty of teams have done very well and even won Super Bowls with average QBs. Drafting Vince comes at the opportunity cost of having at least two first round picks for that number one, and that additional pick (assuming of course, used wisely) could be yet another difference maker on defense or elsewhere across the board. Good, well balanced teams win Super Bowls a hell of a lot more often that superstars - even superstar "leaders" which I believe you and others erroneously believe Vince will be the moment he steps on an NFL field - and even if I felt DC was going to be an average QB at best, well I believe we now have the coaching staff that can utilize that average QB and build through the rest of the draft/FA to get the job done.
My answer is: keep Carr. Still, I understand and very much allow for the difference in opinion, and I can appreciate it when a poster such as yourself can make their case, even if we only agree to disagree in the end.
chuckm
Veteran
travfrancis said:
you are correct sir ...... my signature comes from the deep and dark recesses of a mind that was subjected to 4 years of mathematical he$$ in college. It's a poor attempt to reduce the plethora of RB/VY/DC posts to an equation ...
if you're a VY lover then ....
VY's talent and leadership tends toward infinity and thus Carr's talent and leadership tends toward zero
if you're a Carr lover then ....
Carr's talent and leadership tends toward infinity and thus VY's talent and leadership tends toward zero
I'm still working on an equation for all the other possibilities ...
Joe Texan
Inducted 04
Did not need miss cleo to see David and his tempertantrums. I sure hope Gary puts an end to this and makes David gain the trust of his team again. I have heard that some very important pieces to the offensive puzzle have lost faith in thier so called Leader. It appears to me that the Carr Flu is a pandemic, There is no cure as of yet but we've just agreed to spend another 24 million for further reasearch.
I would have full faith in the front office with out the spewing of CC.
It appears that CC is just a puppet though and Dan and Gary are pulling the strings.
I would have full faith in the front office with out the spewing of CC.
It appears that CC is just a puppet though and Dan and Gary are pulling the strings.
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
You are Joe Texan, that's what you do.Joe Texan said:
