I really like our young secondary...

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Texanballer, Dec 24, 2008.

  1. Texanballer

    Texanballer Rookie

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    Dunta Robinson
    Fred Bennett
    Brandon Harrison
    Antwaun Molden
    Dominique Barber

    I think these guys at their full potential can really patch up holes on defense.

    Jacques Reeves i am 50/50 on. It seems every big play happens around where he is covering.

    I think we need to draft a hard hitting CB or Safety early in the draft
     
  2. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    Well, Jacques Reeves has easily been our best CB this season. I'm also optimistic that Dunta will get back to 100% next season and I like Fred Bennett. I like Molden's potential but am very unenthusiastic about BHarrison. He seems soft and also seems to lack instincts. I don't know what to think about Barber- I doubt he can be a quality starting safety- with his lack of speed.
     
  3. Texanballer

    Texanballer Rookie

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    I think reeves has been a double edged sword. Great at some times and terrible at other times.
     
  4. imatexan

    imatexan Hall of Fame

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    Good way to put it.
     
  5. False Start

    False Start On # 69

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    More like a butter knife, hes good for what he is, but just don't cut it sometimes.
     
  6. YoungTexanFan

    YoungTexanFan Hall of Fame

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    Phillip Buchanon initially?

    Reeves doesn't start for many teams, which is why he came here. We gave him a starting spot because of our secondary injuries and youth. He does make some plays but he gives up a lot of plays too. He's what you want in a Nickle Back for obvious passing situations when there is better DB help on the field and he doesn't have to play the run.
     
  7. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

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    I would describe Reeves more like buttered toast...

    Young secondary? Dunta will be 27 next season. As well as Reeves. That's the prime of their careers. I think Robinson will bounce back from his injury to become a good CB again. It's too much to expect Reeves to improve at this point in his career.

    I really liked Bennett as a rookie. It seems the more this staff works with him, the worse he becomes. I haven't seen enough from Molden to know if he's part of the solution. I've seen enough from Faggins to know that I've seen too much.

    The Texans could bring in an entire new group of safeties, as far as I'm concerned. Eugene Wilson is more of a nickel defender than a starting FS. Nick Ferguson is a hitter without range. Same for Will Demps. Brandon Harrison looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Dominque Barber looks clueless. C.C. Brown is best forgotten.

    This secondary is hemmorraging. It needs an infusion of quality free agents and draft choices. The problem is that the defensive line, in spite of all the draft choices and $$$ thrown at it, also needs attention. And quality d-linemen cost more money and require higher draft choices.

    So in review, I'm not crazy about the talent in the secondary. Young, old, or in-between. I'm even less fond of the coaching they receive. And I'm not convinced that the Texans can bring enough new players in to solidify the group. If they even have the inclination to do so.

    Other than that, I love the young secondary. Go Texans. Merry Christmas.
     
  8. beerlover

    beerlover Site Contributor

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    Texans like their db's strong in run support, thats just one reason Reeves value to them was so much higher than Cowboys. second he has excellent long speed something Texans really lack. Texans believe he is just beginning to realize his potential. so is 5 years 20 million really to much? All the Lancaster, Texas native does is start everygame & play every snap on defense.

    Hey I would have loved to pick up Charles Godfrey in the draft (#67 Carolina) instead of Molden but he was off the board. while he has all the measureables he has yet to prove it on the field other than special teams. looking @ Antwaun rookie contract of four-years $2.455 million its clear a player has to make his money soon as he can prove himself then pursue big bucks in free agency or accept his current team new contract offer.

    What hurts Reeves is safety support besides weakness of ball skills when in flight. he has improved his technique locating the ball & supports the run he is always isolated with no safety help which can burn just about any corner when a QB has too much time. so in short safety help & a better pass rush will help Reeves & Molden (when he returns next year) our db's should be fine assuming they resign Dunta Robinson.
     
  9. Texans_Chick

    Texans_Chick Utopian Dreamer

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    Same goes for Amobi Okoye.

    He starts off his rookie season with a goodly number of sacks for a DT. And since then not so much.
     
  10. beerlover

    beerlover Site Contributor

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    Amobi has played better the last two games :smiliedance:
     
  11. powerfuldragon

    powerfuldragon g'mornin to you

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    he always lands buttered side down?
     
  12. ArlingtonTexan

    ArlingtonTexan Moderator Staff Member

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    Bennett- has been up and down. sometimes looks like a borderline pro-bowler, others can't even stay on the field.

    Harrison- has the physical tools, but is not physical enough and makes too many mental mistakes despite the fact he is in position more than most of safeties we have had here.

    Molden- Not played enough on defense to make any judgement, but at least should be a good special-teamer.

    Barber- see Molden.

    Reeves- Good enough to be frustrating. Can stay with the WR and has some ability in the run game, but mises more plays than he makes. See why the Texans bought into him and why Dallas let him go at the same time.

    Robinson- Probably a little overrated by Texans fans in terms of his pure corner performance, but from a distance seems like the most obvious leader and toughest guy on the defense.

    Not going to comment on the "veteran" safeties as they are all dime a dozen type players who have limitations.
     
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  13. Fox

    Fox All Pro

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    Bennett - I'm a fan. Still has upside. He's got good size and ball skills. He can jump with larger receivers to fight for the ball. My problem with him is he struggles in transitions... ie. he seems to fall or lose his man when they cut sometimes.

    Molden - More of that upside word. Saw him play as a CB maybe once this season. Good combo of size and speed. Solid on special teams. We spent a 3rd on him, yet they still don't trust him enough to play more than occasionally. He needs some PT next year after a second camp.

    Faggins - Special teamer, decent athleticism. He can fill in for spot duty but shouldn't start on a regular basis other than a nickel or dime back.

    Dunta - Has never been a "lock down" corner, but he's decent in coverage and is the emotional team leader. Fantastic in run support, and his big hits get his team mates pumped up. The entire D seems more confident when he's on the field. Great athleticism pre-injury, has bounced back quite well this year but still seems to be shaking off the rust. I'd like to see us keep him for another year, because he's far too competitive to not return to form, IMO.

    Reeves - I have a much higher opinion of him than the rest of the board apparently. I think he's a decent starting CB. Everyone knows his pro's and con's so skip the rest of this if you like. He sticks with his man better than any other CB on our roster, the problem is he has poor ball skills when he's not breaking towards the LOS, and does a poor job of getting his head turned and finding the ball (although he looked better at this the second half of the season). My personal opinion is there's some bias against him based on preconceived notions developed from his time in Dallas. Every time he gets burned in the game he gets burned on the boards. Guess what, every CB gets burned, even for a couple big plays a game, it happens. I don't see nearly the level of aggression towards Dunta or Fred when they give up a big play, and they give one up nearly as often as he does. Just my perspective.

    Eugene Wilson - Another player who I seem to like more than everyone else. I think he makes a good starter for us. He doesn't miss many last chance tackles, he has good range, he's a smart player, and he has good ball skills. I want to keep him around at FS, I don't see a need to actively search for a replacement.

    Nick Ferguson - Has filled in well for us for a street FA. Solid tackler and great in run support, it's his pass coverage that leaves a lot to be desired.

    Brandon Harrison - Not a fan. Not great speed, lacks aggression.

    Overall, I'm alright with our secondary. I'd like to see us find another safety to pair with Wilson, resign Dunta, and see what we have in Molden. Other than that I think they'll be fine with a better pass rush to help them out. Go out and get a monster DT and/or pass rush specialist DE and watch our secondary magically improve.
     
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  14. beerlover

    beerlover Site Contributor

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    if anyone has paid attention the Texans like to spread their assests around in the draft & FA. last year they added three in the secondary first Reeves in free agency then drafted Molden & Barber. this year less is needed numbers wise but still a high priority pick like 1st or 2nd so they come out of the offseason with one new face sure to crack the roster.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2008
  15. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

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    I can't put my finger on exactly when it happens but in every defensive backs "lifespan" he reaches a point where you go "OK, that's what he's going to be doing the rest of his career" and if it's good enough then it's good enough and if he sucks, well he's always going to suck.

    Prior to reaching that point they all look the same to me and that is "inconsistent". Bennett is exactly that and is still on the "good side" of this "point". Another year or two of playing the way he did this season and he's very likely to be a journeyman for the duration of his stay in the NFL.

    Dunta is very much a great #2 CB and I don't mean to take anything away from him because you want him to be on the field because of the fire he brings to the defense. He makes other players around him play harder (good stuff) but he's not a #1 CB in the NFL and he's never going to be one. He's past the point where you expect him to get much better than he is right now (excepting of course the injury which he'll continue to recover from and I think get all the way back to where he was before he got hurt). Paired with a legitimate #1 Dunta is money. Without a credible threat on the other side of the field he's just not good enough to be our #1. With Aaron Glenn he was sharp. With Buchanon and Petey he's adequate at the postion and boosts those around him.

    Jacques Reeves has been better than I thought he'd be but I don't think we're going to get much better than we've seen so far out of him. I think he's on the wrong side of that critical point in his career that I'm talking about. The system might suit him better than the one in Dallas but he is what he is and no power in the universe is ever going to make him more aware of the ball. He's a guy who can run fast.

    Petey Faggins had a few years where he continued to get better but once he hit that point he was still short the necessary skills and talent to start in this league. He's always been depth and nothing more. He's not even good depth. He's acceptable depth. He should not make this team next year if we're drafting the way we should be.

    Moldon and Barber are both too wet behind the ears to have an opinion on.

    Harrison seems to have no natural instinct for the position. He plays like he's fast enough, big enough, and strong enough but with no feel for what he's doing. He's not going to make it.

    Nobody else in our secondary is really worth mentioning. It's a testament to how thin in talent and poorly coached we are there that Eugene Wilson can come in and not only look great in comparison to everything have but also improve the play of the guys around him by passing on second-hand lessons from whoever Belichick has coaching his DB's. Jon Hoke has stayed about three seasons too long IMO.
     
  16. Norg

    Norg Hall of Fame

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    we havent seen much of Dominique Barber

    i wonder if we are going to keep or cut him
     
  17. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    Okay, I know folks around here hate Cowboy analogies (and yes position switch) but anyway . Charlie Waters has always credited Cliff Harris for most of his INTs, saying Cliff's presence made the receivers run different routes and the QBs select their plays such that he was in a position to make the grab. If the Texans had a great cover corner on one side, Dunta would be exactly who you want back there as the "weak" guy they are going to challenge.

    PS--Cliff Harris deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.
     
  18. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    Well, our best hope is that Molden is that guy and by 2010 he'll have that level of respect. He has the tools. Unfortunately, those guys don't grow on trees and I don't see us acquiring one in free agency or in a trade- I don't see any available. And, my guess is the early round picks are going to focus on DL and safety help.
     
  19. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    This is the first off-season for the Texans where I would actually like them to play in the high dollar free agent sweepstakes. Make a run at both Asumgha and Haynesworth. You aren't going to get both--heck probably not either--but either would transform the D we have seen (if we had a DC who could take advantage of it.) Not saying we are one player away from the super bowl, but I think we are one of those two players away from playing an entirely different, and more effective, defensive scheme.
     
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  20. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

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    I think right now we have far more questions/uncertainies about our secondary than we certainties/assurances about them, both collectively and individually.
    How far back is D-Rob and will he get to his pre-2007 injury level ? That so complicats the evaluation of his market value from the Texans' perspective if not his, which potentially is the biggest impediment to him remaining a Texan.
    And remaining on the subject of corners & season-ending injuries, I dunno from nothin 'bout the Moulden injury, but fracture of a DBs leg is very serious as we know all too well.
    And does Reeves still have upside ? If what we see is all we get, then this is another FA screw-up by Smith.
    Bennet appears the best value of all, atleast as a 4th-round pick there's not that much invested and he certainly has his impressive moments when he displays real talent ?
     

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