I don't even know what to call this thread

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Texanmike02, Oct 28, 2007.

  1. Texanmike02

    Texanmike02 Site Contributor

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    Ok. Here goes. I'm not sure what to call this thread.

    Surprisingly maybe I wasn't crazy when I said this was a 6-10 team.

    Stop me if you've heard this before:

    Our safeties are very b... wait.. you know that.
    Our OLBs are slo... we got that covered.
    Our OL is ba... wait we saw signs of life with White in the lineup.
    Green won't play a fu... check.. you've heard that
    Faggins needs help over the top if he... we've got that.

    Guys I don't see why we're so upset. I mean yeah the game was hard to stomach, but we knew all of this about the team. If you haven't pulled your rose colored glasses off, now would be the time. Put them in the drawer and save them for the 'stros or maybe even the Rockets. The good news is, we do have a foundation. I liked the E'train today. But we need to teach the kid to block. Its not really fair to him if the defense KNOWS we're running the ball when he's in the game. Also, when they announced this game was in SD I knew we were in trouble. It was like the Saints' first game back in N.O. The emotion, you knew the crowd was going to be loud... and like it or not... that causes mistakes. Especially for a young football team. That said there is no excuse for what we saw today. NONE.

    A quick thought on the DL. I don't think they are as bad as we think they are. If you have to line up your corners 7 yards off the receiver. Don't get safety help and really can't blitz anybody but your MLB, the OL's job is just way to easy. If you tell 5 guys, these are the 5 you need to watch, and then tell the WR/TE's ok you need to get 7 yards off the line of scrimmage and throw one fake and you'll have the safety over asking the cheerleaders if they've seen you, YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO GET PRESSURE. A good DL can make a below average secondary look good. But a horrible secondary can make a great DL look horrible. That's what's happening. If we ever get a safety that knows what "help over the top" means... this defense will look much better. Same goes with the OLB's. Yeah the DL needs to hold up at the point of attack. But teams know that the DL has to stretch a little to make up for the complete lack of speed on the outside. That makes blowing up the middle of the line SOOO much easier.

    The season is over, but the building is an ongoing process guys. This was a 2-14 team two years ago. We've added talent, but not depth. We're just not there.

    Oh, and you can't blame the coaches. Not this time. Not this year. We just don't have the talent on Defense and we're too banged up on offense to do anything. That was never more apparent than this week. We were just out talented on defense especially. The bad news... we have some HUGE holes on this team. I mean holes even Dayne couldn't miss. The good news.. we have SOME huge holes... They can be corrected, at least mostly in an off season. When I was the pessimist everyone said I was nuts because this isn't a 6-10 team. People were discounting how big of a problem our holes really are. Now people don't understand that it is a few HUGE deficiencies that are causing our problem.

    So where do we go from here.

    OL

    This is one of the places you have an opportunity to fix now. Throw White to the wolves and see what you have. LT seems like much less of a priority if you ask me. The OL seemed to play much better when White came in. We got passing lanes, we got holes in the OL. I still think you have to address the LT spot, but I think that White plays the rest of the year. You've got to find out if he's the answer. Winston and Pitts are serviceable at least. Winston has actually looked very good. I thought that Flanagan was ok at pass protection, until I noticed that Sage has actually had passing lanes open up when White has been in the game with him. I want to see what Schaub does with those lanes.

    RB

    This is another place you hold tryouts. Does anybody really think that Green is the answer now? I was very skeptical at best when we signed him. In the two games I've seen him, he's looked old at best. The other problem... I've only seen him in two games. I know he's played more... but not much. I say you give Egsdagsd (I'm not even going to try to spell it, he'll be E followed by a few letters until I learn) looks and see if he can pass block. I think you basically audition to see if you have anyone on the roster who can be your backup next year. Then you go get a RB next year. If I have to see Dayne aim 3 yards left of the hole and fall down one more time... I'd even call up DD/W and see what he's doing.

    SS/FS

    This area of the team absolutely HAS to be addressed this year. You have to do something different. CC and whoever else we roll out there every week are horrible. Anybody noticed our defense gets much better inside our 30? That's because Faggins can't cover a 20 yard route and our safeties don't know what help means. Draft, Sign, Trade... something. You have to do this this offseason.

    OLB. This is another place you have to look. Drob doesn't run a sub 3 second 40. So you can't expect him to actually cover the entire field. You need at least one side to be fast. When we're fixing this problem, we need to ignore tackles. We need speed. Of course you get football players, but they need to be FAST players. Greenwood/Clark would be ok if we had speed opposite of them, you can deal with ONE slow OLB. But not two. Diles, if you're reading this... start picking Clark/Greenwood's brain. You may be in for a position move.

    QB. This is the hardest to access. He's NOT getting protection. Sure he's not getting sacked, but that's because he's good at shifting in the pocket. He is getting disrupted. I'm not sure if that's his accuracy issue or not. But Schaub has had a problem all year. At the beginning of the year it just meant that people were catching passes and not being in a position to run. Now its turning into overthrown/underthrown balls that are resulting in INTS. You have to fix this. I want to see what he does with white in the game. I also think you have to move the launching point around BEFORE the snap. Have him planning on running right (Winston seems to seal his man better than anyone on our line) or get rid of the ball quicker. That's the only way this team will develop and more importantly, we'll get to see if he can make accurate throws.

    DB. We line up off the ball too much. I understand with Petey. He's not big enough to muscle a guy at the line but when Bennet's in he needs to be pressing at the line. We line up 7 yards deep way too often. Part of that is the safeties. Part of it is the size. But our DL will continue to line up if the receivers have 7 yards before the DB is even in the picture.

    Wow this is frustrating. Its like the little engine that almost could. Its like groundhog day really. The only difference is we aren't able to improve the day because building a team takes months not days.

    Mike
     
    Leahmic223 likes this.
  2. drewmar74

    drewmar74 disgruntled

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    Yup. They pretty well summed it up.

    Okay, well, we can all get back together when? Say January when we can talk about where we are in the draft?
     
  3. Brandon420tx

    Brandon420tx Flounder

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    I agree, I think we should sit Schaub for next week, let him get 2 weeks of healing because he just plays god-awful when he's hurt, the other requirement to put Schaub back out there is this - White must be ready to start at center.

    I've been on the Diles to OLB bandwagon for awhile now, you hit the nail on the head, and if I had the pleasure of picking which OLB he would replace it would be Marlon "No Blitz" Greenwood.

    and its Echemandu, now his first name is the REAL monster, just call him Obi-Mandu...
     
  4. Leahmic223

    Leahmic223 Hall of Fame

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    I agree with Mike here man.

    Also about giving up on the season and seeing what we have for next year. It is a good possibillity.

    You have to know when to hold em, and know when to fold em. We need to see what we have in White, Echemandu(sorry if I mispelled it), Bennett, and I need to see more from Boulware.

    I also agree on the Dline and secondary. Dline wasn't that bad today, I saw plenty of pressure.

    I think the rest of the way this team should prepare for next year, the AFC South is a tough division and we are already far behind. Lets see what the draft holds for us.

    I think while Safety and Tackle ar big needs...what about a OLB that can actually play some ball? I don't see many people mentioning OLB as a big need and I think it is. Other than Ryans, who makes plays?
     
  5. Brandon420tx

    Brandon420tx Flounder

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    I'm a big advocator on Diles playing ROLB. What are the knocks on him?
     
  6. Leahmic223

    Leahmic223 Hall of Fame

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    I don't know I haven't seen him play.

    Maybe he gets some PT in these recent blowout losses like White does. I Wouldn't know because I stop watching after a while.
     
  7. GP

    GP Go Texans!

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    I stopped watching before the half.

    Can someone (Mike?) tell me:

    1. When and why did White come into the game?

    2. How long did he stay in?

    3. It seems, by everyone's comments, that he was a drastic upgrade over Flanny. Can you give more detail?

    4. Did Eechie stay in the rest of the game, and did he look as good as he did early on?
     
  8. threetoedpete

    threetoedpete Hall of Fame

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    Agreed. Didn't know that Ahmen would get hurt when they got him. But the thity something line is a real line. Players hit it the wheels begin to come off. It's a rare athelete when that isn't true. The contract is ok . So it was a wash. I'm with ya. Kubes is stuburn but it's time for Mr. McNair to come out give the guy a vote of confidence and unload the benches. Let's see what we got for '08. What is mind boggeling to me there are still peolpe latched on to the fiction that everybody is at fault but the players. We have a dearth of tallent. Now just today...Tony Ugoh is out. Didn't play. So the colts have 2 guys that can handle OLT at least for a spot start. The Texans have a half guy who is thirty something and is barely clinging to his rice bowl. There is no excsue for missing on Flanagan. And no excuse for not fixing it in the off season. Good centers are a dime a dozen. Letting two QBs get beat to death, risking our investment in them is intollerable. I'm just glad the bolts called off the dogs. coulda been worse.
     


  9. Texanmike02

    Texanmike02 Site Contributor

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    Admittedly I wasn't paying complete attention to when exactly white was in the game. I know he was in on several plays in the middle of the 3rd and a few at the beginning of the 4th. I just saw his name as the game was meandering as the massacre was nearing a close. And my DVR is FUBAR so I didn't get to record and replay like normal. (That may be a blessing because if I have to watch Turk trip in front of the football one more time.

    But yes, he was in there for a few of Egadsg's runs and on at least 4 passes Sage threw. I did assume that Flan was done, though he might have come back in.

    Mike

    As for the actual difference... the guy lined up on him moved to the side instead of the backfield. He was able to keep the guy engaged long enough that he didn't get his hands up and bat at the ball and most importantly, the pocket didn't collapse from the inside. Too many times our QB's over the year have been flushed out the side of the pocket instead of being able to step up into it. Further more the high throws we've seen from Schaub are symptomatic of a guy not being able to step into this throws and throwing off his back foot. It didn't really occur to me today, but I've been harping about his accuracy even when we were winning.
     
  10. threetoedpete

    threetoedpete Hall of Fame

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    I was in a cross between a daze and rage so I can't answer specifically as to when he came in. Some where in the third quarter. Will say there was a marked difference. Why ? he has twenty something legs and he can still move and get angles on guys.

    LB- will say it will be rare that we have some of the top fight TEs on the schedule. However, if they go for a LB who can run and hit in the first round next draft won't hear a peep out of me. I got the idea they pulled the reins in on
    Gates. He could of scored at will on any snap if they called it.
     
  11. Texanmike02

    Texanmike02 Site Contributor

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    On the LB's. We're going to see Dallas Clark twice a year and whoever the Titans are throwing to (and unlike our Oilers, this incarnation uses the TE quite effectively). I wouldn't say that alone justifies a 1st round selection, but the lack of speed is remarkable. Of course the alternative would be.. start blitzing Greenwood on second down in hopes he gets to the QB on 3rd down.

    Mike
     
  12. Texans_Chick

    Texans_Chick Utopian Dreamer

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    Good points in this overall. But I do think you can do some coach blaming on defense.

    Yes, the defense needs more talented. But it wasn't like the players were just a step short in coverage--i.e. just not good enough. It was like they didn't know what they were supposed to be doing at all. Totally clueless. That's on the coaching.

    FanHouse does a coach killers segment each week, and I made a suggestion to the guy who writes it to put Richard Smith down as a coach killer:

    link


    If you look around the league, in the salary cap era there are all sorts of defenses that have to function with young guys in key roles. The Texans defense doesn't look like it knows what it is supposed to be doing. There is nothing about Richard Smith's background or coaching style that makes me think that he is someone that can turn this defense into something that isn't a total embarrassment.

    For those who follow what I write, I am not one that calls for everyone's head. I understand that there are limitations on who you can get and when and how coach changes disrupt things. But I really do believe that an offensive minded head coach needs an experience defensive coordinator with a good track record that he can just give the defense to and not have to worry about it. Maybe that wasn't available the year that Smith was hired, but I sure would try to throw a pile of money at someone better this off-season.
     
  13. Brandon420tx

    Brandon420tx Flounder

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    Good points Steph,

    Let me get this straight though, Richard Smith was the Defensive Co-ordinater that got REPLACED by DOM CAPERS? Wow, just wow.

    here's a post I made on the official board
    As much as people don't like Belichek, thats what makes him a great defensive coach. He doesn't just pick schemes and stunts and blitzes, throw them together and expect his players to do it right. He expects them to know what they are doing, and why.

    Another example, I played RDE in school. Our coach went through every single defensive play and went talked to us 1 by 1 about what we were supposed to do, and why we were doing it and how it developed the play overall. Sure, it took us 2 weeks to learn the entire defense, but god damnit we were good.

    I still remember on the OLB blitz, my job was to knock the LT into the LG, or the TE into the LT, I had to do that before I was allowed to do anything else. Why? Because it cleared room for the blitzing OLB whose jobs were: containment on off tackle runs, reverses, and sacking the Quarterback. Who took over the blitzing linebackers jobs? the Middle linebacker, who was supposed to make sure the running back didn't make plays in the space the OLB vacated and stop HB Tosses while having a soft zone. What was the DT next to me doing? he supposed to shoot the gap between the LG and C, the DT next to him was supposed to eat up the remaining blockers while the other OLB had control of the running lanes, the far DE had contain and the outside rush on the QB, the Corners played bump and man and the Free safety played deep center field, and the strong safety went into a soft zone, or followed the TE if he went out for a pass.
     

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