How would you fix our D?

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by mussop, Nov 18, 2008.

  1. mussop

    mussop Hall of Fame

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    This would be my Dream D
    coach Marvin Lewis
    style 3/4
    FA's Open the bank sign Terrell Suggs and Albert Haynesworth to max contracts
    draft Tade down get 3 of the top 45 players
    Rey Maualaga LB 6-2, 250 USC
    Victor 'Macho' Harris 5-11, 192 4.50 Virginia Tech
    Emanuel Cook 5-10, 205 4.52 South Carolina

    Mario Haynesworth Amobi
    Adibi Maualaga Ryans Suggs
    Harris Cook Whoever Robinson
     
  2. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    1. Fire Smith!

    2. Teach these defensive players about football!

    3. add this thing to the game plan called "unpredictability"

    4. add this other thing called "disguise"

    5. add this other thing called "intensity"
     
  3. DerekLee1

    DerekLee1 Hall of Fame

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    It's not about "opening the bank". It's about fitting them under the cap.
     
  4. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

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    Albert Haynesworth. Or the closet thing to him.
    I've been watching a lot of NFL ball for lots of years (decades actually), and as valuable as a "shut-down" corner or a premier "edge-rusher" is to a defense, I'm now very confidant that the single MVP a defense can have is a large, powerful but also mobile, active inside DLineman/DT.
    BTW, Hayeswoth does in fact become an unrestricted FA in this offseason as I understand it ? Wonder who gets him and how much guaranteed money he gets in his contract ?
     
  5. TimeKiller

    TimeKiller Guest

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    1. Hire Wade Phillips as DC when he gets the pink slip. Let him install 3/4
    2. Sign Terrell Suggs
    3. Draft premier MLB (Mauluga/Laraunitis), 2nd/3rd round DB help
    4. Actually look like a defense, maybe eventually play like one.

    Suggs, Amobi/Okam/Johnson, Mario
    Diles, Ryans, 1st rounder, Adibi
    Robinson, 2nd rounder, Barber, 3rd rounder/Bennett/Molden
     
  6. YoungTexanFan

    YoungTexanFan Hall of Fame

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    First off, he is trash as a person, meaning he has no job on our team. Secondly, we won't spend that kind of money stupidly. I've stated my opinion on him quite a few times before this year, you can pull up those posts to get my true thoughts.
     
  7. hot pickle

    hot pickle Canada Eh

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    but atleast the titans win some games and the texans dont.. i wonder why... cause we have no attitude
     
  8. YoungTexanFan

    YoungTexanFan Hall of Fame

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    Ok. Do you have 2-3 years to wait while we transition BACK to a 3-4? You want to sign Suggs? Cool, so do I. You want to play him at 3-4 DE? Why? He is either a 3-4 OLB Rush Specialist or a 4-3 DE Rush Specialist. You have Barber starting next to a rookie, this I have a huge problem with. Also, Robinson hasn't shown anything in 2 1/2 years to make me think he is an NFL starter. Also, with the DL you suggest, TJ and Amobi aren't 3-4 NT's; not at all. Marie has the size to be a 3-4 DE, but why would you waste that kind of money to not get the production?

    This plan is poorly thought out in dang near every aspect.
     


  9. YoungTexanFan

    YoungTexanFan Hall of Fame

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    Like I said, look up my prior posts on him. I've said a lot.
     
  10. Texan_Bill

    Texan_Bill Subscribed Contributor

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    "Stop someone for a change or............."

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

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    What makes you think that it will take that long? Honestly I can't understand why anyone would assume that a 2-3 year transition is waiting in the wing under a good 3-4 DC like Wade Phillips or Marvin Lewis. This is not even remotely an "empty cubbard" of a defense and a number of parts that you would be replacing to go 3-4 need to be replaced anyway if you're ever going to have an effective 4-3.

    Add to that the idea that many (good) defenses today don't trot a 3-4 or 4-3 out every single down and I think you've already got some pieces right here that could be used by a good DC to implement his system.

    I think that getting hung up on the idea that going to a 3-4 defense would take us years and years to accomplish is something we've gotten used to because we're Texans fans and we're always being told that it's going to take "years and years" to get anything done around here. Meanwhile other teams go out and build, rebuild, change, and change back in windows of less than 2 years.

    It might take Richard Smith 2-3 years to build a defense (and I'm thinking he couldn't do it in 5-6 years based on his accomplishments here) but nobody actually capable of doing the job is going to take that long.

    And TJ was actually drafted to play NT for us in a 3-4 by the way. I can't argue that he didn't pan out (He's a worthless slug) but he is exactly the guy who our former regime picked to replace Seth Payne. He's got the body (or could have if he'd make an effort), he just lacks any semblence of the motor.
     
  12. beerlover

    beerlover Site Contributor

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    elevate Frank Bush to DC but offer Richard Smith the LB coach position (his strength).

    keep same system, but focus on front four pressure, tighter coverage. stripping the rock skills & in general more of a physical nature.

    assess strength & conditioning coaching staff led by Dan Riley, are they developing our players to the fullest?

    make some organizational changes to the Pro Scouting Dept (poor track record in free agency) release Bob Grier & bring in Broncos Chris Trulove Coordinator of Pro Scouting to replace him.

    Its not neccessary @ this point to do massive overhauls of the complete staff just some healthy movement & stay the course, same with roster positions (we all know time is running out on certain players so let those chips fall where they may).

    I expect alot of dialogue of pros & cons between 4-3 & 3-4 for a number of reasons one being the Texans franchise was built to be run a 3-4, secondly the 3-4 is a more aggressive dynamic approach to playing defense but that the foundation for that scheme is long gone & never reached its potential to begin with (injury's/talent evaluation- Travis was a 3-4 bust). Now its clear this teams foundation is much closer to being built in the trenches with so much depth/talent/1st rd. picks it just takes time & the missing link- the big power physical inside presence, someone who is feared by Centers & guards alike, someone like a "Mount Cody" from Alabama in the draft. you take hiim as your first pick (right now thats looking top 10) then with your high 2nd (which the Texans have not had since taking DeMeco in 06) you take another LB like Cushing, USC or Curry of Wake Forrest etc...whoever slips into their range then some speed at safety in the 3rd, like Derek Peques, Mississippi State or Curtis Taylor LSU.

    Free Agency I would love to see the Texans just lock up their foundation pieces like DeMeco, Dunta & of course Mario. unless someone like a Suggs really wants to come here I'm just not comfortable overspending for star caliber players until our own are our own. This is one area where the Texans really need a change in leadership to help our own players buy into the system, their future & the success of this franchise going forward without that we will remain a doormat of the AFC South.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2008
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  13. Kaiser Toro

    Kaiser Toro Native Mod

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    1 - Have Ray Rhodes audit every coach and player through the rest of the season and report to Kubiak, Smith and McNair.
    2 - Fire Richard Smith and then Hoke. Based on Rhodes audits, keep the position coaches per Rhodes audit.
    3 - Ray Rhodes needs to tap into his well of contacts and recommend DCs and Secondary coaches for interviews.
    4 - Dunta Robinson - figure it out what we are going to do with him. Tagging him may not be the best move due to the investment that will need to be made.
    5 - Draft or sign a NT that can step in play yesterday
    6 - Make your defense about stopping something whether it be the run or pass - have a mantra and bonus the hell out of defensive unit and position goals.
    7 - Commit to the run. Dead legs for your RBs equate to dead legs for your defense.

    Kubiak strikes me, much like myself, as loyal to a fault. He needs someone to shake his shit up in this instance and make football decisions rather than "family" and long term coaching relationships. At this point I feel he is only damaging this organization's reputation while keeping his clean.
     
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  14. YoungTexanFan

    YoungTexanFan Hall of Fame

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    While TJ was drafted by a 3-4 regime, he has never been a 3-4 NT. Coming out of Florida State, he was a gap penetrator. Hardly a NT, nor does he, nor did he, have the size to play NT. His Senior year at FS, he was listed at 290. He's roughly 303 now. We can just throw that under the bus if you will.

    Our cupboard is not "bare" but it isn't stocked and ready to move in with either. In fact, to transition to a 3-4 defense, we are closer to "bare" than we are to "stocked". Mario is more of 3-4 OLB than a 3-4 DE, and at least there is some hope to get production out of him. Also, I would question wether Ryans is big enough to play ILB in the 3-4 and could actually see him being a good OLB to utilize his blitzing ability. So then you have Okoye, yet ANOTHER 1st round DL who doesn't fit the 3-4 DL. What do you propose we do with him? I assume you want Okam at NT with his actual ability to play that position. Okoye isn't a run stopper, and he was drafted high because of his potential ability to get to the QB in a 1-gap technique.

    That means, you need 1-2 DE's, 1-2 OLB's, 1-2 ILB's. We still need a CB1 and FS/SS. Of course I see every reason to put off upgrading the areas of weakness to switch to a defense we have to "transition" to, and yeah, it will take YEARS.
     
  15. DBCooper

    DBCooper Outlaw

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    The Titans win because of Jeff Fisher.
     
  16. Showtime100

    Showtime100 Got JJ?

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    Maybe run more stunts and get a linebacker to help get some defensive surge up the middle. It was getting frustrating watching Mario getting there a split second late play after play.

    Just once I'd like to see a QB turn and run into Mario like he saw a snake and ran into a tree.

    [Richard Pryor line] SNAKE!!.......POW! :tiphat:
     
  17. Tailgate

    Tailgate Fall of Hame

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    Yeah, switching back to the 3-4 would be less ideal than hopefully getting a legit big man DT and a DE this offseason. A big DT would help free up Amobi (who is still very young and learning) and a legit pass rushing threat opposite of Mario would do the same for him. Add a true MLB and put Demeco on the outside. Get Dunta completely healthy and have Molden live up to his potential, and we are alot closer to where we need to be defensively. This while a new DC is calling in the plays of course.
     
  18. dsorc

    dsorc Veteran

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    First, I think we have got the pieces to play either a 3-4 or a 4-3. The only thing that may be difficult in switching to a 3-4 is finding a NT and maybe an OLB but at the same time we also need this to some extent in the 4-3 (Big run stopping DT and RDE). With that said a hybrid defense is also a possibility. We should go for the best DC available no matter the system he runs as long as they can feel comfortable with running that system with our players plus whoever they want in the first round.

    That said, my dream scenario is as follows. Get Phillips, Singletary, or another productive 3-4 DC. Get Suggs in FA to play SOLB. Draft Cody in the first and a S in the 2nd like Rolle or Chung.
    DE=Okoye, Cochran, and Bulman
    DT=Cody and Okam
    SOLB=Suggs
    ILB=Demeco, Diles and Adibi
    WOLB=Mario (who would probably be rushing most of the time)
    CB=Dunta, Bennet, Reeves, Molden
    FS=Wilson and Harrison
    SS=Ferguson and Rookie
     
  19. texanhead08

    texanhead08 Hall of Fame

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    I don't like the idea of Mario at OLB. I want him attacking the backfield every play. The fact I have seen him dropping back in coverage more than once pisses me off.
     
  20. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

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    Travis Johnson is listed as being 6'3" and 311 pounds at NFL.com and he was drafted to replace Seth Payne who was 6'4" and 303 pounds. Would it be preferable to have a 345 pounder like Mr. Ngata over at Baltimore? Sure. Is Travis Johnson too small to play at NT? No. As I said in my original post over on the "Who would you make Defensive Coordinator" thread I've seen a big ol' cheeseburger eatin' NT get cut loose almost every year from somewhere and then signed to another team before the season is out (and play well). Sure you look out for one to draft who is "special" but you can find one to play without much trouble and you can back him up without much trouble. One other word. "Okam" as you pointed out is right there on the roster.

    Mario is 6'6" and 283 and he could bounce between DE and OLB without any trouble at all. The Ravens start a guy who is 290lbs at RDE and don't seem too bothered with that. Okoye is 6'2" and 306lbs while the Ravens start a guy at LDE who is 310lbs and an inch taller. Okoye is still got much upside and the ability to gain strength and weight. He's a kid right now (maybe one of the only players Kubiak can legitimately call a "kid") and so I say that the DE spots can be filled with the two of them. Your point about Okam is absolutely correct. He can absolutely do that. This guy is 6'5" and 337lbs. Why doesn't he fit by the numbers?

    As for the linebackers you're going to need a few, I never said that you wouldn't. You need a few right now so how is that any different. DeMeco Ryans is 6'1" and 245 pounds (according to NFL.com so grain of salt and all that) while Jamie Sharper was 6'3" and 239 pounds. I think he's big enough to play either inside or outside. Jay Foreman (who sucked badly) was 6'1 and 240lbs. Zach Diles is 6'0 and 240lbs.

    These players can be used and you cannot convince me that you can't get more out of these guys with a Wade Phillips or a Marvin Lewis coaching them than we're getting out of Rick Smith coaching them.

    1-2 DE's? No you don't but by all means go get another one if he's there.

    1-2 OLB's? Maybe so but they're not impossible to find.

    1-2 ILB's? No you don't.

    CB1 is likely Dunta Robinson next year with the best of the rest as CB2 no matter who is coaching the D or what kind of D he's coaching in my scenario.

    FS/SS is up in the air which makes it exactly like every single year of the Texans existence. I think if you can get an elite one at our first round spot you go get that guy. If not Wilson and Ferguson can play better than they have this year. Demps can play better than he has this year. It's not a bad group, it's a group that's always out of position. This is coaching, particularly where guys who have never been this lousy are concerned.

    I don't see this as nearly the ordeal that you and many others do. I'm not as hung up on the sizes and weights as you appear to be either. I'm not going to say a guy can't do it because he's an inch shorter or 6-10 pounds lighter than the ideal player at that spot. I just think that's the wrong way to go about it. Sure you want the prototypical types when you can get them but that's the whole point of bringing in a better DC. Who cares if he's a 3-4 guy or a 4-3 guy if he can friggin coach. The guy we have now can't do squat and guys are getting worse playing for him. Seriously, he appears to need 11 first rounders with undeniable freakish talent to field a reasonably capable unit. You bring in a quality DC and give him what he asks for (and believe me Wade or Marvin will know what to ask for) and results will follow.
     
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