How talented are the Houston Texans

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Goatcheese, Dec 7, 2009.

  1. Goatcheese

    Goatcheese Nightmare Over

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    We've talked about this in a number of threads recently, and never really reached a consensus.

    We hear all the time that this team is loaded with talent, but personally I don't see it. I looked at our roster back in May, and I just couldn't see how this team was loaded and ready to make a playoff run. That's why I couldn't vote any higher than 7-9.

    I would like for everyone to go through the roster, and rank our players in these basic categories. Then decide if that is really a playoff level team.

    Elite: near the very top of their position
    Good: Pro Bowl level players
    Quality: They belong as starters on a good team
    Developing: Young guys who are developing, or just too soon to call a bust or quality+
    Role players: one dimensional players who are a liability outside their primary strength
    Depth: NFL caliber players who should not be a primary starter on a good team
    Poor: Players who are not playing well, and would not win a roster spot on a good team
    Ugly: Really bad

    players in red were here before Rick Smith.

    Elite
    Andre Johnson
    Owen Daniels
    Mario Williams
    (when healthy)

    Good
    DeMeco Ryans
    Brian Cushing
    Matt Schaub

    Quality
    Zach Diles
    Dunta Robinson
    Jacques Reeves
    Kevin Walter
    Eric Winston
    Chester Pitts
    Vonta Leach

    Developing
    Amobi Okoye
    Duane Brown
    Glover Quin
    Connor Barwin
    Xavier Adibi
    Jacoby Jones
    James Casey
    Steve Slaton
    Antoine Caldwell
    Brice McCain
    Antwaun Molden

    Role players/One dimensional
    Eugene Wilson(coverage)
    Bernard Pollard(run support)
    Anthony Hill(blocking)

    Depth
    Antonio Smith
    Kevin Bentley
    Joel Dreessen
    Chris Myers
    Rashad Butler
    Ryan Moats
    Mike Brisiel
    David Anderson
    Shaun Cody
    Jeff Zgonina
    Tim Bulman
    Deljuan Robinson


    Poor
    Andre' Davis
    Chris Brown
    Glenn Martinez
    Nick Ferguson
    Tim Jamison
    Jesse Nading
    Kris Brown
    Matt Turk

    Ugly
    Chris White
    Kasey Studdard
    John Busing
    Dominique Barber
    Fred Bennett

    Here's where we know we have quality players:

    QB Matt Schaub
    WR Andre Johnson- Kevin Walter
    RB ?
    FB Vonta Leach
    TE Owen Daniels (Out)
    LT ?
    LG Pitts (Out)
    OC ?
    RG ?
    RT Winston

    RE Mario Williams
    NT ?
    DT ?
    LE ?
    Wil Zach Diles
    MLB DeMeco Ryans
    Sam Brian Crushing
    FS ?
    SS ?
    CB Jacques Reeves - Dunta Robinson

    That is a lot of question marks for a team that many expected to be competing for the division crown this year. We've got some players developing to fill them, but they're not quality players yet.
     
  2. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    no team is "finished" and this team as as much talent as anyone else outside of about 4 teams in this league. You still think 0k0ye is "developing"? Next year is year 4 and his rookie year is still his best season.
     
  3. Texecutioner

    Texecutioner Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I think this team has plenty of talent and it's been shown all season long. We've actually got more talent than I thought we did going into the season actually. We're right there with a lot of good teams at this point other than a few. Talent is no longer the huge problem that it once was. If we could have a good off season where we resign some of our productive players and bring in some new talent in FA with a really good draft. Then all we need to do is find us a good HC and we'll be up there with a ton of teams talent wise and close to being amongst the best.
     
  4. Goatcheese

    Goatcheese Nightmare Over

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    There are only a few teams that can say they have 6+ Pro Bowl level players, but we don't have the quality starters to surround them with that an elite team should.

    Okoye has been good at times and bad at times. He will blow up a double team one play, then get pushed off the ball on another. With what I've seen out of him, and his age, I still think it's too soon to call him a bust.
     
  5. Texecutioner

    Texecutioner Hall of Fame

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    3 years now. He's easily a bust when you consider that he was a first rounder. He wasn't a 4th round pick.
     
  6. Goatcheese

    Goatcheese Nightmare Over

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    Feel free to rank him as poor if you would like. He is a '?' either way when you look at the talent.
     
  7. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    top 10 pick to boot. You pay a premium for these guys.
     
  8. Texecutioner

    Texecutioner Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, when you consider the amount of money he got with his rookie contract as well, there is no discussion as to whether he's a bust.
     


  9. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

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    Lot of people like to characterize the Texans as a talented team that underachieves and or chokes when its a big game is on the line.
    I dunno 'bout the underachieving or choking part, but I just don't think the team is that talented.
     
  10. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    Have you noticed how his press clippings have changed? Originally, he was a guy that can get after the passer but will have to improve at the POA. Now, he's a guy that can play the run pretty well but will never be a good pass rusher...

    Now, this is the stuff coming from guys like JMcClain but I'm sure the organization is feeding him this kind of stuff. He doesn't even pretend to make those kinds of football judgements on his own, except when he's putting out his "report card".
     
  11. Texecutioner

    Texecutioner Hall of Fame

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    You wouldn't call them chokers when they've screwed themselves out of multiple games this season from blunders inside the 5, to missed FG kicks, to blown leads, to epic play calling failures? That is the definition of choking. Look up the word in a sports dictionary and you'd see the 2009 Texans team right next to the word. I think the amount of talent on this team has shown itself this season a lot. The lack of leadership is what has hurt them and the lack of urgency at crucial moments. They have plenty of talent now, and a really good off season could really spike this team.
     
  12. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    The issue to me is not our quality players but the others. Schaub goes out for a quarter and RG looks lost. Pitts is out and Studdard is pretty bad. Same on other side when Chris White is in. Our running games is average or below regardless of who is playing. Busing should not be on team and Barber should exit right behind him. We have average corners that are propped up by the strong safety Pollard. We need to fill these holes in draft.
     
  13. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    I'm sure you probably never heard of most of the Colts replacement players before they were coached up and inserted into the Colts lineup when their star players went down.
     
  14. Goatcheese

    Goatcheese Nightmare Over

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    Who do you think all these talented guys are?

    That's the whole point of the thread. We always hear "they're really talented", but who are they talking about? I think if you go through the entire roster and give an honest, no BS assessment, you won't be able to find 16 quality players to surround our 6 good/elite players with.

    Propped up in run support, sure, but he is a serious liability in coverage.
     
  15. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    from the Froggy one...

    http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1318918&postcount=20
     
  16. disaacks3

    disaacks3 Site Contributor

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    Simply put - We're talented enough to have a record better than 5-7 at this point (even accounting for injuries).
     
  17. Hooston Texan

    Hooston Texan All Pro

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    In their last 26 games (all 12 this year and the last 14 of last year), the Texans have been blown out twice--Ravens last year and the Jets this year. And you could make the argument that neither of those two games were true routs: we were down 19-13 heading into the fourth quarter against Baltimore and the Jet loss was only 24-7. All the other losses came in tight games. If this team had a talent deficiency, we'd be getting blown out much more often.

    We may not be at the top of the talent chart at every position, but we are good enough across the board to play with any team in the league. What's sunk the season is the same thing that sunk us the previous two years: we just cannot beat our division rivals. To go 4-14 the last three years against the Jags, Tacks and Colts is terrible for a bad team. For a team that is 17-9 against everyone else over that span, it is unfathomable.
     
  18. Khari

    Khari Administrator Staff Member

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    talented.....but not very disciplined
     
  19. Honoring Earl 34

    Honoring Earl 34 Hey Koolaid

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    OK ... I'll play . To me you are either good enough to start for a contender or your not . Here's the guys I think are good enough / talented enough .

    QB . Schaub
    RB . Slaton as a situation back but need a bread and butter back .
    FB . ? Leach ... to one dimensional but that's just me .
    LT . Brown
    LG . ?
    C . ?
    RG . ?
    RT . Winston
    Wr . Johnson / Walter
    TE . Daniels

    DE . Mario
    DT . ?
    DT . ?
    DE . Smith .... he's been in a SB .
    OLB . Cushing
    MLB . Ryans
    OLB . Diles
    CB . Between Quinn , McCain , Dunta , Jack we may have one .
    CB . See Above
    SS . Pollard
    FS . ?

    Young up and comers who have a chance .
    Caldwell , Barwin , Casey , Moulden , and Adibi . At least they would be claimed off waivers .
     
  20. Goatcheese

    Goatcheese Nightmare Over

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    And?

    Who are the Texans quality+ players that make everyone say they are an incredibly talented team?

    Some of the best players in the NFL were drafted late or not at all. I don't care if a guy is a street free agent who never played college football. Is he a quality player or not?
     

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