How different is Kubiak really?

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by gtexan02, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. gtexan02

    gtexan02 Working?

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    How much differnet is Kubiak from Capers?? He promised a lot of changes, but has so far turned into a Capers clone in many ways:

    1. He has one speciality, and the other is incredibly lacking (Capers couldn't coach offense, Kubiak can't coach the defense)

    2. We see the same unimaginative playcalling week in and week out

    3. Trying to committ to the run even if it isn't working

    4. Going with a system rather than molding the system to his players

    5. Lack of utilizing the TE in the passing game (the last 2 games)

    6. Short dumpoffs and quick slants

    7. Inability to make adjustments at half time

    8. Playing to keep it close rather than to win.

    I know its still early, but Kubes promised a lot in preseason, and we did well. Since the regular season, he has slowly morphed into Capers it would seem. What do you think?
     
  2. Ibar_Harry

    Ibar_Harry Hall of Fame

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    How many times have you heard the comment we have to get the ball into David's hands. How David goes so goes the team. You know what? Kubiak is his own worst enemy.

    Carr either can't develop or is not being allowed to develop. What you say? Yes, that is what I'm saying. I'm from the old school that says the QB is the leader on the field, the field general. As such he should be the one calling the plays. I'm not saying the coaching shouldn't have input, but in general the QB should be calling and listening to his players coming back to the huddle. When Carr did that on two occasions during the previous administration we were very successful. On the 1 yard line with a chance to open up the game, the ball should have been in Carr's hands to put maximum pressure on the defense. We had to trust his abilities at that point in the game. But Kubiak couldn't or wouldn't trust Carr.

    All of the leadership and play calling appears to have been taken away from Carr. He can't even call audibles it appears. Coaches in the NFL have moved away from allowing the QB's to develop into signal callers and field Generals. The problem with that is the coaches don't have the on field reports. They don't see the game from the QB's prespective. The press box is not like being on the field. What appear to be right from the press box could be wrong when seen by the QB on the field. Let Carr sink or swim. A great coach is one who teaches his player how to play the game and lets him play the game. Its like being a parent. You can't be with your child every minute of the day.

    Some of you would say Carr is no Payton Manning and I would agree with you right now. I would, however, say the following. Payton Manning is what he is because he was fortunate enough to be able to grow up in a nurturing environment. He was allowed to become the leader and play caller on the field. Obviously there were a number of factors, but the fact is he was allowed to win or loose on his own. When you make mistakes from your own play calling you learn what is best. Being spoon fed does not lead to an excellent decision maker or play caller. You never learn to make the critical decisions when help is not available. I could never understand a coaching staff yelling at a QB for not making the right decisions when they were never allowed to make decisions. Kubiak and Capers develop followers, not leaders.

    As good as Brady is, he is also a follower. He does make some decisions - a lot more than Carr - but he is still a follower. He is not an indepent thinker on the field. He has to wait for the play call. Again, I have a prejudice and that is I want my QB to be a play caller. If he can't do the job, then I will find someone who can. But I know that is the only way I will have a leader on the field and that's what I need when the going gets rough and quick decisions have to be made. I don't want to have him wait for my decisions and I don't want delay penalties because they can't figure out what I called. I want a QB who can see something happening by the other team that allows him to catch them off guard by a quick decision. All of that happens when your QB is the decison maker.

    I'm not saying Kubiak hasn't taught Carr a lot of things about the game. That's what Kubiak's job is to teach his QB how to play the game, but then he has to allow him to go play the game. He's there to point out during the course of the game what he is doing right or wrong and aid in decisions at critical parts of the game based on field input. The same is true for the defense. Leaders are developed because they learn to make decisions on the battle field.

    Capers would not allow his players to make decisions except for Wong. In fact when we lost Wong, Capers was lost. He had no one to replace him on the field. Wong might be more important to this ball club than many think.

    Kubiak uses the word "KID" far too often. These are not KIDS, but men or Young men. Yes, they need to be coached, but they are to be treated like men both from a mental and responsibility point of view. They are grown up, treat them like adults. Teach them to be decision makers, not followers. If you do that, you will have a great team.

    When you say Kubiak is the same as Capers I agree in the above way. Capers never developed decision makers, Wong was a decision maker before he came here. The one person who became a decision maker under Capers was probably the one person we miss the most this year. That was DD. DD makes instance decisions and finds the holes or makes them whichever is necessary. We do not have a RB who has DD's capabilities, little lone, his ability to make decisions. In any event its time for the coaches and players to grow up. They need to trust each other. It is not a one way street.
     
  3. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    How much differnet is Kubiak from Capers?? He promised a lot of changes, but has so far turned into a Capers clone in many ways:

    1. He has one speciality, and the other is incredibly lacking (Capers couldn't coach offense, Kubiak can't coach the defense)

    that's how it is with most coaches. kubiak knows this and adjusts accordingly ... he drafts defense first and trusts the coaches on that side of the ball while he works with his strengths. capers meddled in the offense and messed it up, while ignoring his strength.

    2. We see the same unimaginative playcalling week in and week out

    they're opening up the playbook at a snails' pace as i noted in another thread. i'm not sure the reason for this.

    3. Trying to committ to the run even if it isn't working

    this is the NFL, you dont win if you cant run. even with a 20 point lead and 40+ carries, arizona lost because they couldnt run the ball even with a great RB.

    4. Going with a system rather than molding the system to his players

    this is a good thing and proven to work for more than a decade with his former team. kubiak's coming into a very untallented team and it's going to take time to find these players that fit the system.

    5. Lack of utilizing the TE in the passing game (the last 2 games)

    not sure what happened here, i figured putz would be carr's favorite target before the season started.

    6. Short dumpoffs and quick slants

    bad pass protection. it's a little better, only because carr's getting rid of the ball so quickly

    7. Inability to make adjustments at half time

    i agree with this one too, but i'm going to go homer and blame it on being a rookie.

    8. Playing to keep it close rather than to win.

    you're still stuck on capers. the few times we've been close, kubiak's still throwing the ball and trying to create a balanced attack.

    I know its still early, but Kubes promised a lot in preseason, and we did well. Since the regular season, he has slowly morphed into Capers it would seem. What do you think?
     
  4. Cheroqui

    Cheroqui Veteran

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    Hey what happened to our zone blocking that was causing teams defenses to shift to one side for the run and wokred well in setting up our bootlegs? I remember when we started using it during preseason, and seeing Sage run a beautiful bootleg because of it.

    Also the TE's?...

    I know somethings wrong but don't know what exactly is the problem.
     
  5. sleepwalker

    sleepwalker Veteran

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    My 2 cents:

    Kubiak is a smart offensive coach, look what he's done with Carr in a very short time...I think his past record shows that.

    Bottom line is: Kubiak inherited 4 yrs worth draft doodoo...Lost his 1000yrd rusher and now we have lost Payne...How can he possibly fix things this fast?
     
  6. Grid

    Grid Hall of Fame

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    They are probably both similar because they are both coaches in the NFL. And if you look around you will see that alot of coaches share similar traits.

    The difference between a winning coach and a losing coach..is that the winning coach is winning.

    Im not gonna go into a long spiel about Kubiak..ill just point out that Kubiak has shown a willingness to bench, and cut, players that dont contribute. That is more than Capers did, and its a big thing.

    In case ya hadnt noticed.. Kubiak considers us to be in a rebuilding stage.. and hes right to think that way.. we are still building talent on this team.

    epiphany: Capers is gone because he knew his time was running thin..and he had to field a good team immediately.. so he threw guys out there that werent really all that good, and tried to force a square peg into a round hole. Kubiak has come in and cut away the fat that Capers was trying to pass off as sirloin, and now he is trying to continue building our talent base.

    We may be in for a wait.. but its too early to call out Kubiak. Way too early.
     
  7. tsip

    tsip Hall of Fame

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    Did everyone read the Chronicle article today? McNair and Smith said 2 different things about winning--

    "Asked what he can do for the team in the offseason, Smith said: "We're not talking about the future. We're talking about right now. We're trying to do everything we can to win now. We're trying to win our next game against Jacksonville."

    From McNair

    "I want to win now, but I understand the situation. It takes time for a new coach and general manager to get the people they want in place. I know we're going to win. Hopefully, it's going to be sooner instead of later."

    One says 'win right now,' the other says 'hopefully sooner than later.'

    IMO, this team is not 'on the same' page right now. To win 'right now,' our best chance would have been to develope schemes that 'played' to our players strength, something Kubiak said he was going to do but has not. Instead, he's got a 'Heinz 57' team--some Green Bay, some Denver, and some 'who knows' and-caught in the middle-is a team full of players that have very little 'common' playing styles.

    However, IMO, our biggest problem--aka Capers--has to do with 'philosophy.' What kind of team does Kubiak want? What's his plan to get that type of team? Initially, Gary expressed some good ideas about this but-somewhere and some how, he's gotten 'off track.' JMO, but the 'biggest' track jumping is abandoning the notion of starting by building a system (with a Denver flavor) around the current personnel. Then, as new players were added and others subtracted from the team, the system could be modified to take the upgraded personnel into account, eventually being the 'complete' team that Gary wants.

    This gradual adding/subtracting of players-over time-would give the team the best oppurtunity to win/evolve/learn on the field now, until 'everything' was in place. That could've been next year, maybe the year after...but, now--who knows?

    What happened?

    Many posters think Kubiak has drastically changed the offense for the better, but that is simply not true. We've gained 26 more yds and scored 18 more pts than last year. The defense? It's worse-including giving up more points.

    Carr has better numbers, which is a reflection of all the time Kubiak has spent with him-but-this could drastically change if he has too many more games like Sunday--128 yds/2ints/4.7 ypa/0 TDs.

    A HC is in charge of the entire team, not just part of it like a coordinator. meaning he has no 'comfort zone' about assuming coaching outside his 'specialty' is being done effectively. IMO, this is especially true if you have new coaches--

    Did Kubiak spend too much time with Carr? Our running game (supposedly a Kubiak strength) is a 'joke'-our OL is unsettled-we have a 'newbie' receiver coach-our Defense is a 'wreck.'.....

    Like the saying goes, only time will tell. Under Capers, the team got better before it became worse--will this team get better under Kubiak?...or has the damage already been done?:hmmm: :dontknowa
     
  8. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    edit: nevermind.
     


  9. texan279

    texan279 Hall of Fame

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    We watched Capers for 4 seasons, we've seen Kubiak for 5 games, I am going to give him a little more time than that before I start comparing him to Capers.
     
  10. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    Gtexan..... in which game did we try to commit to the run, even though the run wasn't working?? Try to help me understand what you consider commiting to the run?? I don't think we've shown any semblance of a commitment to running the football.

    Arizona last night, 32 carries, that's a commitment to the run. 32 carries for 54 yards, that's a commitment though it isn't working.

    KC this past Sunday,


    Ibar...... how old are you??
     
  11. FanFromCali

    FanFromCali Rookie

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    This is exactly correct. It is one thing to be impatient (totally understandable for what the franchise has went through) but to expect a total turn-around in just five games? My God, give the guy a chance. A coach needs at least three years to get the right players for their system.

    This year we go 4-12 or 5-11. Next year we get six, maybe even seven wins. That third year is where he shows if he is the right coach or not by making a run at the playoffs. Again, it has only been a handful of games and he still has a lot of players on the team that will not be here a couple of years from now. This is a project, not a "quick fix".
     
  12. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    KevinWalter was on the radio yesterday, talking about his experience in Cincinatti. The team had gone 2-14, then he goes to the team(from NewYork), MarvinLewis' first year as head coach, and they go 8-8. the following year, they are one game from the Superbowl.

    he also mentioned they started the 2004 season 1-4, and finished 7-4 the rest of that year.
     
  13. Marcus

    Marcus Ruthless pragmatist

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    Read this and tell me why you think Kubiak should be blamed for the way things have gone so far.

    The problem with this team, the core problem, is they simply don't have the talent. Horrible decisions from the Capers era have been thrown into Kubiak's lap.
     
  14. Malloy

    Malloy Site Contributor

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    IMO these are not neccesarily opposites A coach should plan to win every single match, but at the same time look further ahead, plan the teams future. Only a mix of both plans will produce a successful team, not one or the other.
     
  15. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

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    He is off to a very poor start, and with his team getting blown out in all but
    one of their first 5 games including the Cowboys game who many fans (for whatever reasons ?), have pointed to for 4 years, the negativety is very thick
    right now. But we have to be patient and give him more time before we rush to judgements, conclusions, etc. about his potential. I know its not easy, this being the 5th year and all for the Texans.
     
  16. GuerillaBlack

    GuerillaBlack Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Capers:

     
  17. Kaiser Toro

    Kaiser Toro Native Mod

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    In many ways he is different. Much like a surgeon using a different technique and being more proactive to help find a cure. After the surgery there is a rehab period, which we all know how much that stinks and is currently what we are going through.
     
  18. threetoedpete

    threetoedpete Hall of Fame

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    Yep what he said. The guy just got the mop out. It's a big poopie the last regime left behind. Give him a chance to clean it up.
    want instant grtifacation ? Buy a dog. I have evey confidence that he can get this thing turned around. TBS, I am very troubled with this theme of the players we are picking up this year having to pass the coach sniff. Does this mean are scouts suck ? I thought they did pretty well last draft. I believe you go with what you know. I also belive familliarity breeds contempt. This is what got Capers into trouble. Casserly did what he was told to do. Kubiak is walking the same path. My advise, let the scouts judge the tallent. That's what they are there for.
     
  19. gjmac2

    gjmac2 Veteran

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    I one for one would really like to know what some of you people expected this season?

    Seriously, did some of you people really think that by going 3-1 in the preseason that this was going to be a much better team this year?

    Casserly and Capers were given way to long a grace period in deveolpoing this team. They got some good vetern players in the expansion draft, and with some good first round picks (Carr, Johnson, Robinson) were able to be competative in their 3rd year (7-9). The problem started when the veteren players started getting hurt, or were cut. Then the truth about the lousy drafts (Middle round picks, except for Domanick Davis) and poor personel decisions came to light, which is what happened last year.

    My point is, Kubiak has to be given at least 2 to 3 years if not more before making a valid judgement on if he's the right man for the job. Right now it's painful because they are having to get rid of the junk that was here. I understand, because it stings to see high draft picks being cut, but it's neccessary. Give Kubiak 2 or 3 years worth of drafts, free agents and coaching before showing him the door.
     
  20. Double Barrel

    Double Barrel Modified Simian

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    Exactly. You can't make a good wedding cake out of dog poo.

    I guess the "Fire Kubiak Club" will start soon for some folks.
     

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