How can you NOT overpay for free agents?

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Marcus, Mar 12, 2006.

  1. Marcus

    Marcus Ruthless pragmatist

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    Witnessing the "uproar' about the latest signings. Granted, most of it is from the "I wanted Casserly fired, and I'm just pissed that he wasn't" crowd . . .

    . . but say you're the GM.

    Your team hasn't ever been to the playoffs, and there are 31 other teams besides you that are bidding for a player's services. So, in order to get that player, you have to give him more money than the other 31 are offering. Sounds pretty straight forward, and simple to me.

    So, do you actively participate in getting free agents, or you do not participate?

    Now, if was up to me, I would not participate. I would build strictly through the draft . . . and whatever happens . . . happens.

    _________________________________
     
  2. mancunian

    mancunian Daleks Rule

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    everyone over pays in FA....they see it as the best way to build a team. Its the quickest and most expensive and leads to cap hell
     
  3. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    There are really two ways to pay a player. one is one spec (for instance DC's huge cap hit is on spec instead on production...we are speculating he can do it), the other one is on proven production. Cleveland guarantees 12 mil to a pro bowler...we guarantee 13 mil to someone who projects to play the 4-3 "better" than he played in a 3-4 since he his best sack year is 5. Pure spec. I think that if we have signed more "proven" talent and less "spec", we would not have as many worried fans. Most of us have seen what has happened the first half decade to get us here.
     
  4. Ibar_Harry

    Ibar_Harry Hall of Fame

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    Well said and you can add that any FA chosen probably has to have the blessing of the coaching staff or may be even dictated by the coaching staff. People act like 1 man has all the input in this show and that's simply not the case. Oh, well, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
     
  5. Mr. White

    Mr. White H-Town Beatdown

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    Not to mention the fact that we ARE worst team in the league. Seems to me like you have to pay a little more to get average FAs to come play here.
     
  6. Marcus

    Marcus Ruthless pragmatist

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    The Patriots and the Steelers don't need to overpay, and they don't. But that's because they are the Patriots and the Steelers . . . playoff teams . . . :hmmm:
     
  7. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    It's probably has more to do with drafting well. They hit on most of their first day picks.
     
  8. Grid

    Grid Hall of Fame

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    Honestly I think we are better off paying for spec than proven ability. We paid for Todd Wade on proven ability.. and that really was overpaying for average talent. We had to pay him so much though because we are a young team with no winning records. At least with Weaver there is the chance we may get our money's worth. I just think that you pay alot more for proven players.. I mean..they have proven their worth, and so you have to pay them their worth. Technically..that should mean that you can get a quality player for less, because you know just what he is worth.. but since we are in the situation of being a new team with a bad record..we have to overpay for average talent.
     


  9. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    There was a huge uproar around the league that we totally overpaid for Wade. Turns out they were right.
     
  10. swtbound07

    swtbound07 Jackass of Day!

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    Was that before or after the greenwood uproar?
     
  11. Marcus

    Marcus Ruthless pragmatist

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    Which is why I don't think we should participate in free agency at all.
     
  12. Snapple

    Snapple Veteran

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    Some of you guys act like free agents never live up to their billing, while the draft always succeeds. Look at Jason Babin and tell me how much of a sure thing a first round draft pick is. Look at Travis Johnson and tell me how much of a sure thing a first round draft pick is.

    Free agents don't always stink. I bet there were people who thought the Steelers overpaid for Jerome Bettis when he left the Rams. The Seahawks needed a receiver last year, and they picked up Joe Jurevicious. He ended up being a key playmaker that helped them break through and get to the Superbowl.

    The Raiders "overpaid" for a bum like Rich Gannon, future league MVP Rich Gannon.

    It's not like free agency is a scam, which is what some people are making it sound like. So sometimes you have to pay a little more than what the "experts" say they should cost. That doesn't mean free agents aren't worth it. And sometimes, a little veteran leadership goes a long way, which we need more of.

    We can't just draft a rookie in the third round and call him our number two receiver. The draft can only solve so many problems at once, and you never know how many of your draft picks are even going to work anyway. They could bust, and you'll be worse off than you were before.
     
  13. ledzeppelin229

    ledzeppelin229 Hall of Fame

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    The success of other teams free agents doesn't matter to me. My problem is all of OUR high priced free agents seem to substantially underproduce. Maybe Kubiak/Sherman etc can get more out of them. We can only hope.
     
  14. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk All Pro

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    Why is everyone so dense? The way you use free agency without getting burned is that you buy only the best available proven players. Yes, you'll pay a little more, but you get a more or less guaranteed return. You're not hiring people who might do pretty well in your scheme.

    The problem with the Texans is that they always buy 3rd tier guys, hoping that they'll improve.

    So you get in the game for the tops guys only. If you look at the numbers we're paying for 2nd and 3rd tier guys, they aren't that far off what others are paying for top tier players.
     
  15. tulexan

    tulexan Hall of Fame

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    Weaver was the 15th best FA available. I would hardly categorize him as a 2nd or 3rd tier guy.
     
  16. chuckm

    chuckm Hall of Fame

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    who else besides Bentley would you consider to have been productive enough to qualify for "proven production"?
     
  17. edo783

    edo783 Site Contributor

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    Now Vinny, you know those two positions have totally different pay structures. The Browns made a probowl CENTER the highest paid center in the HISTORY of the league (very likely worth it to). We paid a DE, who typically get a boatload more money than centers do, about the middle/middle upper range for that type of position. Trevor Pryce who WAS once a top end DE and is now on the down hill slide, over 30 and is comming off of back surgury, got basically the same money as Weaver. If we were the Pats or Steelers, we MAYBE could have got Weaver for 20 Mill, which would have been a bargin for a young solid DE in the current market for DEs.
     
  18. TexanBacker93

    TexanBacker93 Hall of Fame

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    Neither of them are ever big players in FA. They go after system players that fit what they need. Building a winning team isn't about assembling the biggest and brightest groups of players. How many Super Bowls does Snyder have now. 5? 6? I lose track with all the "superstars" he brings in year after year. I agree with Vinny that the Texans seem to do a lot more spec buying, but until they establish themselves they aren't left with many options. If they offer Weaver a lower deal and he goes elsewhere they have to scramble to get a serviceable player.

    I don't see Carr as spec, though. Is he getting paid better than his performance? Yes. They just exercised the extension that was written into the contract. I would rather have seen them tear that up and work something else out, but I don't really know what the language in the contract said.
     
  19. TexanBacker93

    TexanBacker93 Hall of Fame

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    Weaver is a better caliber player than Pryce. The Texans gave him a little more guaranteed than the Ravens gave Pryce, but the total is nearly identical. Weaver will most likely play 5 years in Houston and get his $25 million. Pryce will probably end up playing 3 years in Baltimore before the injuries force them to get rid of him. He'll end up with about $17 million paid to him for the 3 years. I'd rather have Weaver and his younger, healthier, and more driven body.
     
  20. dat_boy_yec

    dat_boy_yec All Pro

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    All of the above arguments are just more reasons we should really try to land Givens.
     

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