Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Vinny, Nov 24, 2004.
We will soon see what we really have in Hollings. Looks like we are preparing to feed him the rock.
Lets hope he doesnt get injured again, cause we'd be dangerious with a good running game, and thats what we need to win games (it seems)
As David Carr said : "Thank You Jesus!"
Hopefully he proves me wrong, but I think I already know what we have in Hollings. He's a guy with questionable durability who seems to need a bigger hole than Davis does when running between the tackles. He's a long strider with decent hands who does well when attacking the outside but he has poor vision and cutback ability when running inside. And yes, I can say that even though the guy only has 56 regular season touches over two seasons.
At least he can run by somebody. Perhaps mixing things up with Tony and Domanick will prove effective because what we are doing now ain't working.
Hope I'm wrong, but what I think we got is Casserly's most expensive
mistake to date with regard to the Texans' college draft picks.
You can't show me a team that has never blown a pick. For every Hollings pick we have a guy like Faggins taken in the 6th round and is productive for us. That said, Hollings isn't quite a bust yet. Not by a long shot. Hollings hasn't really ever had a string of touches to prove himself after fully 100% healing from ACL injury and we really never expected much from him until this season. Unfortunately he has been injured. Edge James wasn't the same back the year after his injury; it took him two full years to get his game back.
I've seen enough from Hollings to think he can be a Tiki Barber type. I am still an optimist on this one.
Don't get me started on whether Hollings really cost the Texans a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick. A strong argument can be made the Texans traded their second 4th round pick of the 2002 draft (the pick after Wells) for the pick that ultimately became the Hollings pick.
The reality of the pick is simple. It started as a 4th round pick and we eventually traded it down to a 2nd. It was an 'extra' expansion pick on top of everything else so we didn't even lose a pick in the second round.
I also think that I know what we have in Hollings. We've got another guy who isn't going to be able to run behind this line and it's pathetic excuse for blocking. Barry Sanders would have a hard time getting a hundred yards if he had to depend on these guys to create openings for him.
Who knows though. Maybe they get better or maybe Hollings can break a few to the outside and force the defense to deal with him enough to get things going with the passing game. I'm for it of course. Anything different is worth a shot because business as usual ain't getting it done.
With all due respect, I've got to chime in on this issue this time around.
It doesn't matter in the least bit, what the pick started out as. Trading an extra 4th round pick up until it became a 2nd rounder was just good wheeling & dealing on CC's part. The fact is that, at the time we drafted Hollings, we used a 2nd round pick that we had in our possession. A 2nd round pick that ultimately turned out to be the 1st pick in the 2nd round.
Now, in all fairness, there was no way that we could've foreseen that pick being the 1st pick in the 2nd round. But, no matter where it was going to end up, Hollings still cost us a 2nd round pick.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, quit trying to devalue the price we paid for Hollings. Extra or not, we gave a 2nd round pick that we owned.
I really hope that Hollings turns out to be a stud & CC adds to his legend as a master at finding gems in the draft, but until Hollings proves the doubters wrong, there'll continue to be 2nd guessing. Especially, when you consider that we could've had our choice of Julius Jones, Karlos Dansby, Teddy Lehman, Igor Olshansky, Michael Boulware, & several others with that 2nd round pick.
I guess it really doesn't matter what we paid for him. The fact is, that he's a Texan & we've all got to be patient & keep our fingers, eyes, toes, & whatever else we have to cross, crossed & hope he turns out to be a 2nd round steal.
It doesn't matter to me if you don't care where it started but if we are going to crucify Casserly with this pick, we need to be fair and accept the fact that Casserly took a 4th round pick and gambled with it to the point it turned into Tony Hollings. We never used that 4th round pick. By the time the trading was over it became Hollings, and he will get his shot now. I'm pulling for the guy. There is too much finger pointing and rash judgments on Casserly for this pick (at this time) for my tastes. When we picked Hollings, James Allen and Stacy Mack was the 'talent' in our backfield. The jury is still out to me.
Vinny, and others, I don't see how you can judge any running back or QB on this team given the problems with our O-line and the new blocking scheme. I quiet frankly believe that they are the major reasons for every problem we are seeing with the offense. Is it the scheme or the players? I tend to believe, as you know, that it is the scheme. It has so destryoyed the consistency of our line play. I know Hollings is quick, but I think they are setting him up for injury just like DD. Sorry, but you all are being set up for another big, big disappointment. I think if either of these two backs were playing with Denver we would be talking about how great they were. DD came into this year with high hopes and I don't think they were based on false hopes. I believe the man did everything he could and then some to get ready for the new season. He hoped to help the Texans have a good year. Rather, its the coaching staff who let the team down, not the players. They have placed this team in an impossible situation. They installed a blocking scheme that did not fit the players who were going to impliment the scheme nor the backs who were going to impliment it. They thought it would, but it didn't. The coaching staff made a disasterous call with no contingency plan in case it didn't work. That is again why I feel so strongly about these coaches and their necessary replacement.
If Hollings starts playing some more in games from here on out, hopefully we will be able to get some sort of gauge on what we have. So far he hasn't been too impressive IMO, but he also hasn't had a full chance at proving what he's got. (injuries, lack of play time etc.) What he has seemed to show though is a propensity to go down easy and a lack of vision for the cuts along with an ability to get outside. We need to get a better range on this kid befor the end of the year and we head into the draft. Could have some bearing on how we approache it.
That is exactly why they need to get Hollings on game tape. At the end of the year they will again break down the players and decide their direction in re-loading the team for 2005. Hollings has only had 11 runs this year and only had 38 last year, and the 38 came right off ACL surgery. He also has 5 catches for 46 yards. Thats nearly 10 yards a pop.
I have to agree with that statement. If Hollings doesn't pan out, we can find an everydown back and we will have one heck of a 3rd down back in Davis.
Hollings 'cost' the Texans a 4th round pick in th 2002 draft; and
Hollings has the experience of a 2003 draft pick (he has attended meetings and conditioning like a 2003 pick, not a 2002 or 2004 pick); and
Hollings has a cap value similar to a late 2nd round pick.
Hollings is only confusing if it isn't clear what you are talking about - what the Texans risked (4th round), what his experience level is (2003 pick), or his cap value (late 2nd)
The value of the Hollings pick (present value in 2004) was a high 2nd round pick. The initial investment was a 4th rounder. The investment gain was +2 rounds. Smart investing yes (way to go Charlie) but the actual value of the pick was whatever the initial investment plus gain turned out to be. I'm dizzy from the spin.
by 'high' do you mean late in the 2nd round, as opposed to early in the 2nd round? It's my understanding that the Oakland pick, by the terms of the supplimental draft, was a late 2nd round pick.
Yeah, it started with what the Texans thought would be a late second but they didn't count on the Raiders collapse in '03 so if you run the investment out to maturity, didn't it turn into the 34th or 35th overall that we forfeited? I know it was higher than our own pick (the one we traded to Tennessee when they took Troupe around 40)
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