Gary Kubiak criticizes Texans' practice effort

[Texans_Chick]

What happened is this:

1. Last week, the two kickers made kicks, which actually if we put it under scrutiny we find out that Graham missed a lot of kicks...so I don't know what standard Kubiak was using to measure what parameters guaranteed the players an afternoon off from the weight room, but oh well. He gave them an afternoon off. Good for them. The key here is that he rewarded them AFTER practice had concluded, not before practice had begun.

2, Gary then turns around a few days later and allows them to practice without helmets, and he gets angry about their tempo or their effort during that practice. The problem, IMO, is that he rewarded them before they did anything to earn it.

To me, I think Gary is more pissed off at himself for having rewarded them the second time and then it turns out they loafed on him as a result. Lesson to be learned is that you give the reward AFTER practice, not before practice begins.

Anybody here get a bonus at your workplace for a job you haven't done yet? Anybody here give your kid their allowance money BEFORE they did their chores? Rewards come after, not before. Seems to me like it's a basic, elementary function of the reward system. Gary ignored the way the system naturally works, and the result was predictable. Bet he doesn't do it again, though. LOL.

Gary's a good dad. He won't reward his kids too early the rest of the way.

What?

They were on week 3 of OTAs. The hottest day of OTAs they go without helmets and do a lot of new things they hadn't done the rest of OTAs at a very very fast pace, and Kubiak didn't how they responded and said so.

And then on the next super hot day at a very very fast tempo, they went without helmets and did better.

It is not a bfd.

 

[GP]

What?

They were on week 3 of OTAs. The hottest day of OTAs they go without helmets and do a lot of new things they hadn't done the rest of OTAs at a very very fast pace, and Kubiak didn't how they responded and said so.

And then on the next super hot day at a very very fast tempo, they went without helmets and did better.

It is not a bfd.

Well, not everybody gets to attend like you do. So to you, it's not a bfd...but to us, we just have nothing but each other to sit around and talk to.

So we argue, like guys like to do. It's for fun. We're bored.

 

[ObsiWan]

Sooooo... is training camp going to be open to the fans as it usually is or what? I haven't seen a thing about how to get tickets or anything. Usually there's some info on the mothership site regarding how to sign up by now...

Did I miss a memo?

 

[Texans_Chick]

Well, not everybody gets to attend like you do. So to you, it's not a bfd...but to us, we just have nothing but each other to sit around and talk to.

So we argue, like guys like to do. It's for fun. We're bored.

Even if I wasn't there, I'd say it isn't a big deal because Kubiak says this sort of stuff every year. Just basic carrots sticks 101.

Personally, I do not like to argue for argument's sake. I like MB to find out what truths can be found from enthusiastic like-minded peoples.

Besides, I thought guys were not supposed to like to argue. That they didn't like silly drama and speculation based on little evidence. /wink

 

[Texans_Chick]

Sooooo... is training camp going to be open to the fans as it usually is or what? I haven't seen a thing about how to get tickets or anything. Usually there's some info on the mothership site regarding how to sign up by now...

Did I miss a memo?

Talked to a few people, they didn't have training camp info yet. I'm sure that some of training camp will be open to the public.

 

[ChampionTexan]

Sooooo... is training camp going to be open to the fans as it usually is or what? I haven't seen a thing about how to get tickets or anything. Usually there's some info on the mothership site regarding how to sign up by now...

Did I miss a memo?

The open training camp practice schedule was announced in early July and late June for 2010 and 2009 respectively. Don't sweat it yet. Because of the lockout, I didn't bother to check when it was announced last year.

2010
2009

 

[steelbtexan]

Gary, these players were handpicked by Wade and you.

If they are showing lack of effort it's on you.

 

[Playoffs]

Besides, I thought guys were not supposed to like to argue. That they didn't like silly drama and speculation based on little evidence.

Whatever you do, don't venture into the NSZ.

I think TT can get a few more pages out of this incident, it being so pivotal & all.

 

[Rey]

Gary Kubiak's biggest enemy this year is last years success.

See, I'm torn on that. I think a lot of the fans have these unreasonable expectations, but if im a member of that team I'm thinking: "what success?"

The fans are excited because we made it to the play offs for the first time and went toe to toe with baltimore without schaub. People figure we should be better this year, but every team in the NFL thinks they'll be better this year.

I just can't imagine a football team thinking like the fans do with regards to last years success.

I don't think this was a big deal at all, but its interesting to see peoples perspectives on kubiak saying this.

 

[SheTexan]

Gary, these players were handpicked by Wade and you.

If they are showing lack of effort it's on you.

Not sure I agree! All Wade and GK know about these players is what they see on film, saw at the combine, and what scouts tell them. They didn't LIVE with these guys for the past 21 years and know all their bad habits.. Sure, they need to be motivated, and that's Wades and GKs job, but, some "kids" just don't "get it" until it's to late. For instance: problems getting up early (not a morning person,) short attention spans, intolerance to the Houston heat, failure to STUDY the playbook, overall laziness, OCHO mentality, attitude that they got drafted so that's good enough, arrogance, bad habits they've lived with all their lives. If a player is showing "lack of effort" and they have been warned, NOTHING and NOONE can change them. That's not WP or GKs fault. JMO. They just can't know EVERYTHING about all these guys. That's what they have OTAs and TC for. LACK of EFFORT players can either get with the program or get cut. NO babysittin allowed!

 

[infantrycak]

If a player is showing "lack of effort" and they have been warned, NOTHING and NOONE can change them.

Agree generally with your post. I think the above is a little over stated but to spin off it I think fans come from a never having played a team sport to a high school and maybe college level perspective. NFL coaches can't do the same things to millionaire athletes that people remember their HS coaches doing. They can't get PO'd like my basketball coach who would make us run laps in the gym and then would stand in the middle with racks of balls and hurl them at us to express his displeasure. The balance of power is much different in the NFL when you have a $15 mil per year athlete talking to the $2.5 mil coach than it was in HS or college.

 

[thunderkyss]

I just can't imagine a football team thinking like the fans do with regards to last years success.

I don't think this was a big deal at all, but its interesting to see peoples perspectives on kubiak saying this.

People are funny. You never know how the same event will affect them, & you never know what truly motivates a person until you're down in the trenches.

I think the last 2 years have been rough on Kubes, job in jeopardy & all that. For all we know, he might think he has some breathing room. After the Jacoby "years" he may feel it isn't worth it to harp on making meetings & that kind of stuff, & give these young guys a pass as long as they deliver on the field.

Or maybe he thinks like you, that last year was nothing & he needs to be even harder on the guys.

One way or the other, he's got to manage 53 individuals (not counting coaches & staff) towards one goal & they'll all react differently to last season. There's a lot to feel good about last year, & less to prove than in years past. That underdog thing, that, "they don't believe in you, but I do." trick won't work any more. He's going to have to find another reason to bring this team together.

 

[ObsiWan]

Or maybe he thinks like you, that last year was nothing & he needs to be even harder on the guys.

Based on this Kubiak quote, I think it's the above...

(on if there is a different sense of urgency among the team because of what it accomplished last year) “No. I have the same sense of urgency every year. As a matter of fact, I just told the guys right now, I took their helmets off today and gave them a bone, so to speak and they didn’t respond to it. Last year’s team responded to it very well. This year’s team first chance wasn’t very good. I told them I’ll give them one more chance tomorrow or there won’t be any more of those days. 2011 is over. It’s 2012 and we’ve got a lot of work to do and our expectations as a football team stay the same all the time.”

 

[Rey]

They can't get PO'd like my basketball coach who would make us run laps in the gym and then would stand in the middle with racks of balls and hurl them at us to express his displeasure. The balance of power is much different in the NFL when you have a $15 mil per year athlete talking to the $2.5 mil coach than it was in HS or college.

I agree and disagree. You have a few guys on the team making that kind of coin and I think the texans have done a good job of spending that kind of money on guys that they don't have to baby sit.

But a vast majority of guys on the team right now are "afraid" of the coach. Getting cut is much more scary than being made to run a couple extra laps.

When an NFL coach says the team isn't working hard enough, best believe plenty of ears are perking up.

On this team I'd imagine the upper tier players are listening too just because if who they are. And the other guys on the team are listening because they don't want to be out of a job earlier than they have to be.

So yeah, the punishment is different but at the end if the day I'd say a majority of pro athletes still have that respect or fear of their coaches. And then if they don't , hopefully they are the type of player that is prideful and will play hard regardless.

 

[infantrycak]

I agree and disagree. You have a few guys on the team making that kind of coin and I think the texans have done a good job of spending that kind of money on guys that they don't have to baby sit.

But a vast majority of guys on the team right now are "afraid" of the coach. Getting cut is much more scary than being made to run a couple extra laps.

When an NFL coach says the team isn't working hard enough, best believe plenty of ears are perking up.

On this team I'd imagine the upper tier players are listening too just because if who they are. And the other guys on the team are listening because they don't want to be out of a job earlier than they have to be.

So yeah, the punishment is different but at the end if the day I'd say a majority of pro athletes still have that respect or fear of their coaches. And then if they don't , hopefully they are the type of player that is prideful and will play hard regardless.

I didn't say anything about ears not perking up or players not paying attention to coaches. My point is NFL players have to be handled differently than the coaches we as fans generally experienced. Different techniques have to be used. Kubiak isn't happy with the effort level he isn't going to have them do up downs for an hour as punishment.

It doesn't matter that there are only 15 or so guys on the team who make more than the coach. The coach can't afford to treat them blatantly different than the other two thirds of the team. Create two tiers like that and you will lose the respect of 100% of the team.

 

[Rey]

I didn't say anything about ears not perking up or players not paying attention to coaches. My point is NFL players have to be handled differently than the coaches we as fans generally experienced. Different techniques have to be used. Kubiak isn't happy with the effort level he isn't going to have them do up downs for an hour as punishment.

It doesn't matter that there are only 15 or so guys on the team who make more than the coach. The coach can't afford to treat them blatantly different than the other two thirds of the team. Create two tiers like that and you will lose the respect of 100% of the team.

I didn't say anything about treating guys differently.

And if you think the top tier guys aren't treated differently you are mistaken.

And I understand he isn't going to run them, but he is going to "punish" them still. Taking away the " helmets off privilege" is the exact same thing high school and college coaches do. And NFL coaches will have their guys do extra conditioning. And I've never had any coach college or highschool that had us do up downs for an hour as punishment.

I don't even know what you're talking about with that.

My point is that most NFL coaches are not afraid to get in their players faces or discipline them at all. Not even sure what all that other stuff you typed is about.

 

[infantrycak]

Wow, six sentences is "all that other stuff."

Anyway, the point you partially disagreed with is coaches in the NFL can't and don't use the same techniques HS and maybe college coaches which fans may have experienced as athletes (I am not aware of any of our members being former NFL players). Essentially your post was non-responsive to mine. I didn't say players weren't afraid of coaches. I said coaches couldn't treat them like HS and college students. If you don't think the balance of power is different then just agree to disagree.

 

[Rey]

Wow, six sentences is "all that other stuff."

Anyway, the point you partially disagreed with is coaches in the NFL can't and don't use the same techniques HS and maybe college coaches which fans may have experienced as athletes (I am not aware of any of our members being former NFL players). Essentially your post was non-responsive to mine. I didn't say players weren't afraid of coaches. I said coaches couldn't treat them like HS and college students. If you don't think the balance of power is different then just agree to disagree.

Are you even reading what I posted?

I acknowledged that coaches in the NFL couldn't treat players exactly like high school kids.

If that is your main point then it's not even much of a point at all and I think the best response to that would be "duh".

My point is that while NFL coaches can't be high school and college coaches a lot of that fear and respect factor still remain. The discipline changes on each level, but I'd argue that NFL players are more likely to respond to their forms of discipline than a high school or college player is to theirs.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point but it seems like you were saying that coaches in the NFL have to be creative with discipline or have to be careful because players are more valuable or worth more than they are.

If you were simply saying that NFL coaches don't run their players silly as a discipline measure the, ok, I guess.

 

[VTexan]

This could make or break the season.

 

[infantrycak]

Are you even reading what I posted?

I acknowledged that coaches in the NFL couldn't treat players exactly like high school kids.

If that is your main point then it's not even much of a point at all and I think the best response to that would be "duh".

Well then you should have stuck to duh or silence as a response since that was pretty blatantly the point - that and fans view things from their own HS or college experience and the NFL is different.

Pretty freaking plain from my post:

I think fans come from a never having played a team sport to a high school and maybe college level perspective. NFL coaches can't do the same things to millionaire athletes that people remember their HS coaches doing.

So if it is so duh (traditionally translated as incredibly obvious) to you then you don't need to comment on it now do you nor do you need to comment "I agree and disagree." Ooops, except duh, you did.

 

[Rey]

Well then you should have stuck to duh or silence as a response since that was pretty blatantly the point - that and fans view things from their own HS or college experience and the NFL is different.

Pretty freaking plain from my post:



So if it is so duh (traditionally translated as incredibly obvious) to you then you don't need to comment on it now do you nor do you need to comment "I agree and disagree." Ooops, except duh, you did.

I just figured that your post would be more insightful than red is different from green. I thought (obviously incorrectly) that you had a point you were trying to make.

I guess I was wrong.

And you are dangerously close to "well you didn't play in the NFL, so you can't comment on that". Look around, it's a message board. Another duh comment, I guess.

And I will say that playing high school and college and semi pro for anyone who's done that is a hell of a lot closer to not having played at all.

And to the point if the post you quoted from yourself, my response was basically no they can't do the same things exactly, but they can still effectively discipline poor practice habits or effort none the less.

 

[infantrycak]

I just figured that your post would be more insightful than red is different from green. I thought (obviously incorrectly) that you had a point you were trying to make.

I guess I was wrong.

Oooh, I feel so burnt. I am sorry it took you an exchange of 10 posts for you to comprehend what was plainly stated in the first one.

And you are dangerously close to "well you didn't play in the NFL, so you can't comment on that". Look around, it's a message board. Another duh comment, I guess.

If you had any reading comprehension whatsoever you wouldn't come close to making this statement. You've already acceded to the reality of my point but to make painfully clear to you, which should have been clear to someone with elementary school reading skills, I said nothing about the ability of anyone to comment on anything. What I said was people filter things and view them through their experiences and in this instance they should acknowledge the difference. They shouldn't expect an NFL coach to behave like their HS coach. Now if that isn't clear enough for you or is so duh for you then just walk away because you have added nothing (and to be explicit I say the last as a participant in the thread not as a mod before you go off on some other stupid tangent).

 

[Rey]

Oooh, I feel so burnt. I am sorry it took you an exchange of 10 posts for you to comprehend what was plainly stated in the first one.



If you had any reading comprehension whatsoever you wouldn't come close to making this statement. You've already acceded to the reality of my point but to make painfully clear to you, which should have been clear to someone with elementary school reading skills, I said nothing about the ability of anyone to comment on anything. What I said was people filter things and view them through their experiences and in this instance they should acknowledge the difference. They shouldn't expect an NFL coach to behave like their HS coach. Now if that isn't clear enough for you or is so duh for you then just walk away because you have added nothing (and to be explicit I say the last as a participant in the thread not as a mod before you go off on some other stupid tangent).

Do you know what "dangerously close" means?

Talk about reading comprehension. You should get some. I never Once stated that you said people couldn't comment on anything.

I made a simple post with regards to your original post on this conversation which was basically, no NFL coaches aren't college coaches, but they still punish their players.

And I was not trying to "burn" you. I don't know you and really don't have any kinds of emotions towards you in any way--basically, I'm apathetic with regards to burning you or pleasing you.

Honestly, I would suggest you go back and re read my initial response. It was not written with malice and neither were any of my other post. If you felt insulted or like I was trying to "burn", that's on you.

Also, I've never gone off on any tangent about the mods. Spare me. Most times I post from my phone and don't really pay attention to names. All I respond to are the actual posts.

 

[infantrycak]

Also, I've never gone off on any tangent about the mods. Spare me. Most times I post from my phone and don't really pay attention to names. All I respond to are the actual posts.

The rest I will disregard as redundant. As to this, I was being preemptive. I was not accusing you of anything. The conversation just felt like it was reaching a point where such an accusation often gets launched. Consider it clarifying in advance just in case. I wanted to make clear this was all pure personal opinion.

 

[thunderkyss]

Get a room.......

 

[Texan_Bill]

Leave that poor kid alone, LOL!

#GOOD JOB, gOOD EFFORT!! GOOD JOB, gOOD EFFORT!! GOOD JOB, gOOD EFFORT!! GOOD JOB, gOOD EFFORT!!

 

[Texan_Bill]

GOOD JOB, gOOD EFFORT!!

 

[Vinnie]

Good post Bill, good effort! Now effort me a beer if you dont mind.